Making Ben's Red

[wquiles]

Thanks to Ben and others who shared how they make it, I decided to try it today. This is the basic mix:
50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment


But a forum member was nice enough to describe that in other units, and using a complete Red Tacky Lucas Grease:
24 ozs. = 3 cups - melted beeswax
14 ozs. = 1 3/4 cups - Red N Tacky , heat it..it doesn't really melt
4.6 ozs. = 2/3 cup - Johnsons Paste Wax - melted
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup - Dexron II or III ATF
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup- STP Oil Treatment

Note, 1/3 cup = 5 Tablespoons + 1 teaspoon


So I got several low cost supplies from Wally World, and from my local auto parts store:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/20150210_134441.jpg


I do my own electronics, so I have two hot ways to do surface mount reflow, so I tried one:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_152654_001.jpg


For the Red grease, I open the end, and squeezed it out like toothpaste (tip from a forum member here):
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_152837.jpg


Then used spatula to get the other end (as much as possible):
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_153053.jpg


I am waiting for beeswax from randyrat, but before I knew of him I had ordered a small amount through Amazon, which happen to come in little pellets. Here I got about 20 oz - I will add the rest later, as I was not 100% everything would fit in my container (it did):
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_155713.jpg


The wax:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_170602.jpg
After I had the grease there for a while (while stirring it), I added the beeswax:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_155913.jpg

http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_160348.jpg


But I was never able to get enough heat, quickly enough:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_160938.jpg


So I tried my "better" hotplate:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_160950.jpg

[wquiles]

(part 2 - limit of 10x pictures per post)


The mixture got hotter, and the beeswax started to melt a little, so I added the Johnson wax, and the two liquids (using these to measure per the instructions above):
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_170936.jpg


Although I got more heat, it was not hot enough to really melt everything:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_171729.jpg


Since I had everything mixed, I used my propane setup on the lowest level, and keep stirring it constantly:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_173129.jpg


That worked well, but it also worked fast!. As soon as you get the wax melted you need to kill the fire and keep stirring:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_173600.jpg


Since I knew I had the space, I went ahead and added the rest of the beeswax. Of course, I had to restart the fire for a short while, to get enough heat to melt the new beeswax:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_174039.jpg



After I had everything melted uniformly, with no clumps, I poured the contents on two pans:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_180128.jpg


I put them in the freezer for 1-2 hours, and then took them to my bench to cut up:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_191218.jpg


Since it shrinks, it is easy to get out:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_191249.jpg


Cut it with one of my small knives:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_191516.jpg


After cutting the two plates into triangles and strips of various sizes, I used the non-stick foil and set them aside for future use:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150214_192457.jpg



I hope to try this with pan lubing pretty soon (working now on a custom kake kutter!).

Will

[btroj]

Looks like it worked out quite well. When I made a batch I had trouble with the grease wanting to get everywhere. Yuck.
It does have a unique odor when done but it works very well.

[ballistim]

Nice pictorial! Thanks for showing us how you've made it.

[Ben]

Will,

That is the best pictorial that I've seen yet on making Ben's Red.

Congratulations ! !

You followed directions , took your time, kept your heat low and didn't feel compelled to change the original recipe.

All of that contributed to your excellent results. Now enjoy the product of your labors. Ben's Red makes an excellent pan lube or it can be used in your lubri - sizer.

Just an added thought, I put my lube pieces ( cut in similar fashion to yours ) in gallon sized freezer bags that have the zip lock feature. Keeps them dust free. You'd think that they would stick to each other, but they don't.

Again, a job well done.

Best,
Ben

[wquiles]

Thank you guys, and thank you again Ben. I was wondering how to store it, so the idea with the gallon freezer bags is awesome :)

In freezer bag, per Ben's recommendation:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/Lube/Bens_Red/20150215_101114.jpg


Will

[35 shooter]

Good job. Looks great and you now have a GREAT lube! Low heat is the way to go just the way you did it, otherwise you can scorch the grease and loose the nice red color. Just ask me how i know:smile:. My first batch came out more pinkish because i tried to totally melt the grease first...not a good idea lol! Still shot great though and i learned to keep the heat lower.
I keep mine in zip lock bags too.
Ben's red is the best lube i've found to keep 1st shots in the group from MY rifle. Which reminds me, i've got to make some more too!!

[Driver man]

I use Bens Red lube for pistol and rifle loads and find it very good. Unfortunatly we cant get Johnsons paste wax in New Zealand but I add carnauba wax at 1% and cook gently for 30 minutes. If you are making up a batch and cant get Johnsons paste wax I think it is the carnauba in it that does the work and suggest you use that. The result is a redish brown lube that is very easy to use. I used to get some leading in my CZ75 9mm when using LLA at 1100fps but now I add a small wipe of Bens red to the lube groove after tumbling with LLA with very good results. I ruined one batch of lube by being a bit hot in cooking ,(went dark brown) didnt try it to see how it worked but try to stick as closely to the established methods now and take my time.

[buggybuilder]

Could the Moderators PLEASE make this a "Stickey" as this is interesting and the most informative that I've seen!!

[Toymaker]

Great job, wquiles!! I found melting the beeswax first helped when I added the Red & Tacky. As you found, keeping the heat as low as possible is important. Doing it outside adds to domestic harmony too :bigsmyl2:

[wquiles]

Thank you guys - just a small way to give back to the forum :)

Will

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

Will, I just finished my first batch, looks OK, not cool yet. In your pictures I saw your thermometer, did you happen to take the temperature when you thought it was finished?
I happened to remember a little cheap digital thermometer on the shelf, so I dipped it in, 237 degrees, no smoke, nice red color. Being a curious fellow I wondered about the temp!
Thanks, Nick

[wquiles]

Will, I just finished my first batch, looks OK, not cool yet. In your pictures I saw your thermometer, did you happen to take the temperature when you thought it was finished?
I happened to remember a little cheap digital thermometer on the shelf, so I dipped it in, 237 degrees, no smoke, nice red color. Being a curious fellow I wondered about the temp!
Thanks, Nick

Nick,

Unfortunately I didn't. I just stirred continuously and watched as all was uniformly melted (same color, consistency, no lumps, etc.), and then turned off the heat, and continued stirring for another minute or so. I then quickly poured the mix into my two containers, and quickly put them in the freezer.

Will

[JWFilips]

Looks Like You done Good! ...Low temps....I would have to say! The way you did it it , It really smells pretty Good! Eh!
Do it wrong & it smells like burnt tires!
You have pasted the "Ben's Red Test! Congratulations!
You have the "real" stuff!

[Geezer in NH]

Great Job!!!!

[pacomdiver]

great write up, gonna try my first batch in the near future

[Dakoma]

Those toilet flange seals are made of Bee's wax , would they work ? They are $2.35 apiece and not sure how much wax one ring is but just thought about it since I got one to replace a floor in the bathroom I got to take up the toilet and was told they were pure Bee's wax , just a thought and have no idea what Bee's wax cost it may or may not be cheaper to buy ?

[dragon813gt]

Those toilet flange seals are made of Bee's wax , would they work ? They are $2.35 apiece and not sure how much wax one ring is but just thought about it since I got one to replace a floor in the bathroom I got to take up the toilet and was told they were pure Bee's wax , just a thought and have no idea what Bee's wax cost it may or may not be cheaper to buy ?

They haven't been made of bee's wax for a very long time. They are made of a mix of "whatever is cheapest at the moment" wax.

[gemihur]

... and would make for some nasty lubed bullets if not a new ring were used!:takinWiz:

[bangerjim]

Toilet Bowl Ring (TBR) - - - sort of a waxy, sticky, greasy, gooey, yellowish petroleum-based "stuff" that is not beeswax! Beeswax is too expensive today. Looooooooooooong time ago they were beeswax.

Back when I was grease mixing BPC (Before PC), I used TBR's as part of some pan lube and shooting wax brew and it worked well. Found the mix on here or lasc or somewhere. Can't remember the proportions.

banger

[Mk42gunner]

I see the mix with a full tube of grease will fit into a two quart sauce pan, this is good news because I have been contemplating using a used Teflon three quart pan myself. Saves buying a new pan.

The sad thing is I have newer utensils for making boolit lube and soap than I have for cooking food. But then soup or stew isn't totally ruined if your measurements are off by a cup or two.

Robert

[w5pv]

I made some with toilet bowl rings and ended up with a gooey mess that makes a pretty good fluxing agent and that is about all it is good for.

[Maximumbob54]

The few wax rings I've seen the last few years have all clearly been some kind of paraffin sort of wax softened with something. I say paraffin because I tired making lube with it years ago and it was a disaster. That mess was one of the reasons I started lurking here.

[gwpercle]

When making lube, melting beeswax, be very careful not to heat it above it's flash point temperature. I had some melted beeswax burst into flames when it got too hot. Keep a lid handy and glove on hand to put out flames....I'm not going to ruin a pot of lube spraying it with a fire extinguisher.
I'm going to explore using an old slow cooker to melt lube with. That seems like a great way.
Gary

[Maximumbob54]

I always try to use a double boiler for these kinds of things. But then I don't know how hot we're talking about here either.

[Dale53]

Wquiles,
Excellent tutorial with excellent photos!

Dale53

[Ben]

Wquiles,

Now that is what Ben's Red is supposed to look like.

Ben

[Ben]

If I don't ever hear the phrase " Toilet Bowl Rings " used in a Ben's Red thread again that will suit me just fine.

If someone wants to start them a lube thread and expound on the merits of " Toilet Bowl Rings", by all means do it. However, Toilet Bowl Rings are not a part of Ben's Red .

Beginners that are trying to learn about Ben's Red are only confused by this kind of thing.

Ben

[str8shot426]

Toilet bowl wax is good for two things...

1- installing toilets
2- lubing wood screws (works real good)

[JWFilips]

Here Here BEN! If they don't want to make your "Ben's Red" the correct way ..... Let them call it something else and post it in a new Thread! So it dosen't degrade your original Lube & All your hard work!!!

Maybe they can call The Thread: "Almost Ben's Red BUT NOT "!

[35 shooter]

Only one way to make Ben's Red....no substitutes...wait till you have the correct ingredients as per Ben's instuctions.
You will then have a top notch lube that actually works the way it should.

Wquiles, great job!!

[dverna]

Lock the thread and make it a sticky.

This is how it is done.....PERIOD!

[Big Boomer]

Suggestion for getting the Lucas Red & Tacky grease out of the tube with less mess. Hold the metal sealed end against a grinding wheel with the capped end still on, grind as much as possible the curved inside of the crimped-on sealed end. Once enough of the crimped end inside is ground away the outside ring will slip off easily. Take the flat end of a hammer handle or some such device, the larger the better, and after removing the other end of the grease tube, the entire tube of grease can be shoved out all at once. The Lucas Red & Tacky is good stuff but it is sticky as can be and hard to clean up. Big Boomer

[rhino72]

Thanks to Ben and others who shared how they make it, I decided to try it today. This is the basic mix:
50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment


But a forum member was nice enough to describe that in other units, and using a complete Red Tacky Lucas Grease:
24 ozs. = 3 cups - melted beeswax
14 ozs. = 1 3/4 cups - Red N Tacky , heat it..it doesn't really melt
4.6 ozs. = 2/3 cup - Johnsons Paste Wax - melted
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup - Dexron II or III ATF
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup- STP Oil Treatment

Note, 1/3 cup = 5 Tablespoons + 1 teaspoon


I want to give this a try, and I may be overcomplicating it, but are those percentages by weight or by volume? Also, with the translated ounces and cups, are those fluid ounces or ounces by weight? I see you're weighing the beeswax so I assume it's by weight, but just want to double check beforehand, so I don't waste a batch.

Has anyone run into any limitations with this lube? (Like a velocity limit where a different/harder lube might be a better choice). Also, would this be suitable for moderate/slower rifle loads (like 1400 fps out of my 1889 Belgian Mauser in 7.65x53mm), or would I be better served with something softer?

So far in my short casting career, I've only used LLA, Lyman Super Moly, and just old fashioned 50/50 on handgun boolits. I grew up helping my dad cast for his revolvers, but we never cast for rifles. I've recently gotten more involved and have begun casting for most of my rifles and pistols (and shotguns, for that matter).

Thanks for any help! I'm learning as I go....

[35 shooter]

Ben's Red will work from handgun to rifle and slowest speeds to as fast as your cast boolit will accurately shoot.

I you use the volume method(1st one), just make ten even marks up the side of your cooking pot and add ingredients and melt and stir each one till it reaches the appropriate volume marks on the side for each ingredient.

example 50% would be 5 lines melted on the beeswax and 3 lines would be 30% etc.

By the weight version(2nd recipe), just melt the beeswax till you have 3 cups, then melt the johnsons wax till you have enough cups, etc.
The red n tacky is just a full 14 0z. tube.
The listed weights will get you very close to the melted cup volume.
You may or may not have to melt a bit more to get the full volume of the cup filled out.

I've made it both ways(volume vs. weight %) and couldn't tell a difference in how it shoots.

I personally like to melt the waxes in first before the red n tacky simply because it won't melt. That way lol, you never burn the grease.

Hope that helps you rhino72

[rhino72]

Thank you, 35, that helps! I'll give it a try this weekend and see if I can make it come out as nice as it looks in the original post!

[Ben]

I've made it both ways(volume vs. weight %) and couldn't tell a difference in how it shoots.


Ditto !

Ben

[rhino72]

Thanks, Ben - I'm looking forward to giving it a try. May not have time this weekend, as I am catching up on Christmas gift making on the wood lathe - my wife turned in a lot of 'orders' and she's anxious to get them mailed out! I'm almost caught up on the backlog, though.

[CTone03]

Hi, y'all.

First post. Thank you for posting this recipe and the tips. I just finished my first batch (it's still warm), and I think it's successful. I followed the instructions to the letter (not substituting ATF for sawdust or something else I came up with), even apparently buying much of the exact same stuff now that I've come back to this post. I do have a couple of suggestions:

I bought the same 2 qt pan. It worked well and was large enough for one batch, but if I had some hindsight I would have bought a gallon sized pot so that I could stir a little more aggressively without spilling. Also, as several on this post have suggested, a wisk will be something I will definitely add the next time I make a batch. The little globs of grease are hard to break up with a spatula.

I am also trying pan lubing for the first time; it didn't work out too well for me this time as I had already filled a muffin pan to make ingots; and I not only didn't have quite enough to cover all the bullets I had in another pan, the lube had already cooled enough that it didn't want to spread out. Next time I pan lube the lube will be hotter.

That's it. Thanks again for this recipe!

[Ben]

Glad it is working well for you !

Merry Christmas,

Ben

[Victor N TN]

Back a couple of decades ago, I bought 6 or 7 "toilet wax rings", and that different kind of lube went up in smoke. Now I use parts of it to flux the pot with.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I can't find the dextron II or III
Would valvoline max life full synthetic ATF be a good sub?

[gwpercle]

Actually Dexron II (1970's) and III (1990's) have been superceded by Dexron VI...not sure what happened to IV and V .
Use whatever ATF that is labled Dexron or General motors compatable ATF . My last bottle was Dexron VI.
Don't know if synthetic ATF would be a good substitute.... Just stick with what works is my motto .
Gary

[Nose Dive]

Hmmm Don't understand the reason for the DEXRON at all....other than for the aliphatics. And even then....Why in the lube?

Are we looking for stabilizers at hi temp? Why the DEXRON?

Also need to check the RED TACKY if it has clay. Am unfamiliar with it. Also,,does the Johonson's have clay filler?

Also got 30 or so wax toilet rings from a demo'd apartment complex. "Semelted' with some STP.... Worked great in my mix.

Thanks... NOSE DIVE

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[lablover]

I'm looking to stiffen up my Bens Red a tiny bit. Any suggestions, less sticky I guess. Yes I know Tacky red did it...LOL

[Ben]

Hmmm Don't understand the reason for the DEXRON at all....other than for the aliphatics. And even then....Why in the lube?

Are we looking for stabilizers at hi temp? Why the DEXRON?

Also need to check the RED TACKY if it has clay. Am unfamiliar with it. Also,,does the Johonson's have clay filler?

Also got 30 or so wax toilet rings from a demo'd apartment complex. "Semelted' with some STP.... Worked great in my mix.

Thanks... NOSE DIVE

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.


If it works don't change it.

Ben

[JWFilips]

I would suggest If you guys want to alter the original formula as Ben has made it..... Just post your info in a different thread without the use of the words "Ben's Red" in the title
Since you are making something totally different then "Ben's Red"!

[35 shooter]

I'm looking to stiffen up my Bens Red a tiny bit. Any suggestions, less sticky I guess. Yes I know Tacky red did it...LOL
Many have reported using 3 to 5% more bees wax in the mix to stiffen it a bit with no ill effects in performance.

Having said that, i continue to use Ben's Red in it's original formula because i haven't found anything it can't do.
Most importantly for me i go hunting knowing where my first shot from that cold bbl. is going.

After using it over 3 years now in about any conditions you would care to hunt or shoot in, it just continues to perform for me.
I'm a firm believer in "if it works don't change it".

[Hardcast416taylor]

I agree with 35 shooter about adding some additional beeswax to stiffen the lube slightly. To locate many of the measuring tools, if not all of them, I recommend looking at a `Salvation Army`or a `Goodwill` store or any other thrift store. As far as toilet bowl `wax rings`, I was a plumber for over 35 years and we had but 1 use for them when not used on a toilet - WE TOSSED THEM!Robert

[JRLesan]

Been a plumber for going on 44 years now and there are more than a few uses for bol waxes other than setting stools but haven't found any (uses) in the shooting sports other than fluxing...

[Ben]

If you want to mess up Ben's Red, substitute Bowl Wax for Bee's Wax.

Ben

[flyin brian]

Here's my first attempt and making Ben's Red. I'm a beekeeper, so getting the beeswax was pretty simple ;)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161224/30e6bcb5caa346bd778d40e1b670ef77.jpg

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Soundguy]

Nice. I've made some and pan lube with it with great results.

[Ben]

[QUOTE=flyin brian;3885649]Here's my first attempt and making Ben's Red. I'm a beekeeper, so getting the beeswax was pretty simple ;)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161224/30e6bcb5caa346bd778d40e1b670ef77.jpg

That Ben's Red looks real good !
Best to you,
Ben

[Whistler]

Didn't have any Red N Tacky left, but my usual lube is 50/50 beeswax / moly lithium grease, so I replaced the RNT with the black stuff.
I know we're not allowed to call deviations from the recipe by the name "Ben's Red", though "Ben's Black" does have a nice ring to it!

So far all properties seem the same.

183748

[Hooker53]

This is a good thread and very informative. I'm wil have to try this one. When you get done with it, is it kind of like 50/50 or like a lube that would require a little heat with your lube/sizer??

Roy
Hooker53

[Soundguy]

i made some.. it's softer than candle wax, harder than grease.. etc..

[WILCO]

Didn't have any Red N Tacky left, but my usual lube is 50/50 beeswax / moly lithium grease, so I replaced the RNT with the black stuff.
I know we're not allowed to call deviations from the recipe by the name "Ben's Red", though "Ben's Black" does have a nice ring to it!

So far all properties seem the same.

183748

How did the "Ben's Black" perform?

Why isn't this tutorial a sticky?

[jlnel2]

Good info

[LAH]

This is a great thread.

[sw282]

Made my first ''Bens Red'' today. Was talking to a friend who makes candles about beeswax..

She gifted me with a half pound block of it!!! Got the stuff needed and melted it down on grill..

Will see how it looks in the morning

[sw282]

Well its dry. l put some in my sizer/luber..l am not lmpressed... Kinda gooey and it STINKS..

Smells like my local JIFFY LUBE. I followed the recipe EXACTLY.. NO substitutions or variations..

l know how to mix batches and components...As an lndustrial Painter l am certified in mixing

lndustrial coatings. l will re-melt tomorrow, maybe add some paraffin to stiffen it up.. Get rid

of the gooiness. Gotta get rid of the Jiffy Lube smell tho..ldeas anyone??

[Toymaker]

Don't add paraffin. Try a little more bees wax. Alternately you can ask your candle making friend for a little stearin. They use that to harden candles. As for the Jiffy Lube smell, that's the Red and Tacky. You may not like the smell, but you'll love what it does in your barrel.

[lar45]

You have to be real careful to not let it get too hot when melting. There is a very fine line between just mixed together and oh my gosh, what is that smell. I had to use OD-Ban to clear the air in the shop. Cooking it on the grill was probably the wrong step. I cooked a small patch in one of my small double boilers and everything went great until I poured some off into a pitcher to make sticks with. I put the pitcher on a hot plate to get it a little warmer and it turned on me.

[sw282]

lar-lf it gets too hot,(350f)Is it ruined??? Is this not hi temp grease.. 600f??

[lar45]

I don't know about being ruined, or being able to use it or not. Mine just smelled too bad to keep in the shop, so I chucked it all.

[35 shooter]

When making Ben's Red, once the beeswax is melted and you add the ingredients...especially the grease....turn the heat DOWN.
Your trying for a blend, not a melt.

Stir the grease in the mix on just enough heat to keep the beeswax in it's melted form...Never try to melt the grease.
Stir untill blended and you won't have a burnt grease smell.

I would encourage anyone who makes Ben's Red for the first time to NOT add anything to the original recipe, untill you try it out first in it's "slick" form.
It slings off the boolits very, very quickly and lays down a consistent condition in the bbl. shot after shot. That equals consistent accuracy.

I've used this lube for over four years now, and have never felt a need to add or take away anything from the original recipe.
It's performance has been nothing short of amazing in my rifles and handgun, from 575 fps. to about 2600 fps. so far.

I use it year round in any temps. i hunt or shoot in with no difference in performance or poi.
Don't try to melt the grease in and you won't get the loud burn't grease smell.

The trick to making Ben's Red is low, low, low heat and stir, stir, stir...a little patience and time and it will come out perfect for you.
The ONLY ingredient that needs to be melted in is the beeswax....everything else is just blended on low heat.

I f you happen to get the grease too hot and get a smell from it, don't throw it away untill you try it first.
It will probably still be okay, but it may not give you the deep red color it's supposed to be.
If it turns out a light watermelon color, or slightly amberish, the grease was too hot.
It will probably still work fine as far as performance.

Just my .2...hope it helps.

[sw282]

l shot some lubed loads today with my new Bens Red lube...l mixed it EXACTLY how the recipe says.

lt shot nicely with an improvement in Accuracy.. lt still STINKS and that cant be tolerated. May have

solved that problem tho. l was talking to the candle maker who gave me the beeswax about the smell.

She agreed wholeheartedly!!! She gave some sweet oil she uses to make scented candles... Said not

to use more than 3 or 4 drops because its really potent.. Still wont cure the gooey sticky of it tho..

lf l add something to stiffen the mixture l will no longer call Bens Red. lt'll be ''My SCENTED Red''

[Ben]

Ben's Red , when made per the instructions, isn't gooey and sticky.
It doesn't stink either.

???????????????

Ben

[rda72927]

Ben's Red , when made per the instructions, isn't gooey and sticky.
It doesn't stink either.

???????????????

Ben

Very correct

[smoked turkey]

+1. Good consistency. Flows good in my sizer without any heat. Granted, it does not smell like Hoppe's #9 but plenty good for my senses. However, smell is a personal thing. I can't imagine it, but I understand some people even don't like the smell of #9. :p

[Fernando]

Well first batch is cooling
Put the tacky in my trusty coffee can and began to heat in a double boiler
When warm added stp and atf and stirred a while.
Then added the johnsons and stirred a while.
All along I had my beeswax in a double boiler getting that melted but that
was taking forever so I put my beaker right on my burner a stirred constant til liquid.
Then the moment of truth I put my coffee can on the burner it just fits over the top
and will not slide around due to the lip on the bottom of the can.
Poured my wax in and began stirring - stirred for about 30 minutes constantly.
There was never any lumps and it seemed to be all blended.
Poured it in a pan and it's sitting on my desk til I get enough set up to move into the freezer.
It turned out a deep red as of now and I hope I have a good mix.
Can anyone find a flaw I made?

[Area Man]

Read through this thread multiple time and made my first batch last night. I didn't stir as well as I should have. When I poured it out to set there was maybe 1/4 cup of grease that didn't incorporate. I'd be surprised if that was enough to make a difference in performance. I'll be loading through the week and testing it next weekend.


Heartfelt shout out to Ben for giving generously his knowledge and experience.

[Ben]

Fellows,

Making Ben's Red is like shooting and reloading.
The more you do it, the better you get at it and the more comfortable you'll be with the entire process.

If you do make a few minor errors in your 1st attempts, you'll be alert to that on your 2nd go-around.

Ben

[Fernando]

What procedure do you use to pan lube with this stuff?
I had a hard time with it - double boiler not hot enough and I tried on my burner but must have
got it to hot and it turned on me.
Got some usable but the simple green I used was kids play compared to this.
I really wanted to run this in my 06' but I pan lube all my rifle stuff.
I may just have to run it in one of the lubrisizers for the hand cannons.
Wife ain't happy with it getting to hot either - there is no doubt when it turns.

[Ben]

Did you make the lube inside your home ?

[Fernando]

Made it in the basement - the lube turned out good.
Its just the pan lubing part that's got me stumped.
I can't get it to turn liquidous (is that even a word) enough to
pour or flow into the grooves with out more heat than a
double boiler set-up generates.
Hot plate works but it must have a narrow window because
I went from a lube smell to the burnt grease smell real quick.
I'll give it another go in the garage on rest days.

[Ben]

If the bullets are not pre-heated with a heat gun and the lube hot, you won't have any luck pouring the lube onto the bullets.

I've pan lubed a little ( not much ), I heat the lube on a hot plate until it it is a liquid. Then I place the bullets one at a time into the liquid lube.

I know this process works.

Here it is outlined for you :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34058-quot-Lube-Size-on-a-Budget-quot

Ben

[Fernando]

My usual routine is to melt lube in my intended pan - let cool.
Take my drill with a bit as close to sized dia. as possible and
drill my 50 holes for the bullets - stand the bullets in the holes.
Then I use a electric fry pan with water in it and some wire peg board
hooks laying on the bottom to keep my pan up off the bottom a little.
Turn it on and once everything is liquid just pull it out and let it cool.
Bullets come up to temp right with the lube.
As soon as it is soild but not to solid I just grab them with my fingers
and pull straight up - I get a little suction pop and they are perfect.
But my Ben's would only get to the consistency of paste.
So I put it on my burner and I must have got it to hot and it turned.
Bullets came out ok but smell was a little much for the misses.
I'll give it another go with a thicker pan and bring the temp up real
slow - Not dissin the lube mind you - I'll make it work somehow.
It has to as it didn't smell at all when I made it and it flowed
well enough - I'm thinkin it's just real heat sensitive - read somewhere
that 237* was a recorded temp for someone - I don't think a double
boiler set up can reach that with out being a caldron.

[Ben]

If your " usual routine " works....fine, stay with it.
If it doesn't work, it seems that a completely new technique that does work may be the best route for you ? ? ?

Ben

[Fernando]

The usual is with simple green.
That's why I asked for tips from guys using red for pan.
I'll get it figured out I'm searching everything.

[Butts]

I am about to make my first batch, but have a question. I have a Star lube/sizer and need to make moulds. I am guessing they will be 1"x5". I am not good with volume so what is your guess on how many to make? Should I make 4 or 5 and reuse after they cool while keeping the mixture warm? Or make a dozen or more? This is a fantastic thread and really appreciate all of the info.

[Ben]

Melt and pour, works so much better !

https://youtu.be/GQ5n68SrrUo

[Toymaker]

I did this and it works very well.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?83552-Lube-stick-molds-my-version

I store my sticks in a ziplock bag in the freezer of a small fridge in the basement.

[Hardcast416taylor]

It doesn`t seem possible that I have made 3 batchs so far. Wait, I forgot to mention about my `caster` friends that helped me from having more than 1 luber full of it. The 3rd batch is sealed in zip-lock bags and hidden from view. I made all my batches in my casting barn to keep my Frau from finding a reason to dent a fry pan on my old skull! There is only a faint odor that is not over powering to the nose on my last batch. I have used the lube mostly in my 45 LC Rugers with excellent results in accuracy and the nice bore afterwards.Robert

[Elmo]

Made my first batch of Bens red today. I forgot the Johnsons paste wax on the first go around. Poured it in some ingot molds and let it cool before I spied the Johnsons on the bench. Remelt and add johnsons and repeat. Cleaned the old lube(SPG) out of Lyman 450 and will melt some, pour in the sizer and size and lube some 429421 bullets cast from # 2 alloy tomorrow. The SPG was fine just want see if the red will help accuracy a little. I have been shooting these bullets in a Dan Wesson .44 mag at 55 yards. Been getting 3 in 2 inches and 2 together about 2" away from the other 3. I am gonna test tomorrow and will post results.
Elmo

[Elmo]

Ed's Red is a bore solvent.
Is that what you made ?

http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9

Nope just had a brain fart! I should have posted Bens Red. I have Eds Red that I made for black powder barrel wiping between shots though.

[Ben]

OK

Good deal !

Ben

[Elmo]

I did a bit better this morning. Loaded 15 rounds for the Dan Wesson 44 mag sized 429 with Bens Red lube. Shooting at chicken silhouette at 55 yards. Got 4 in 3" with a low,right flyer. Probably me, I need new glasses which I will get tomorrow. 429421 cast from # 2 alloy, 21.5 gr h110, Federal magnum large pistol primers.197186

[poppy42]

Ok guys I've been putting together al the ingredients to make my first batch of bens red and I had my son order me some beeswax from amazon. Do to a little miscommunication he only ordered me 1 pound. My question is does 1pound block of beeswax =24 oz of melted beeswax? Or do I need to get some more. I know 16oz = 1 lb but I also know dry and liquid measure's are not the same and I also that when stuff is heated from a solid to a liquid it expands. I just don't have any experience with beeswax. I've been putting together supplies as funds allow. Hot plate, a pot, pans, and the ingredients. I should have the everything Monday or Tuesday. I'd hate to be ready to make my first batch only to find out I'm 8oz short on beeswax. Kinda like all dressed up with no place to go if you know what I mean. I'm hoping someone who's made bens red before (like maybe Ben himself maybe ha ha )can help me out with an answer. I know it might not seem like a big deal but I've looked locally and the only place I can seem to find it is in a craft store or a health store and they only had cosmetic grade and they wanted almost $20.00 for a pound you can get it on amazon for $9. And some change so if I'm going to need more I would like to get it ordered.
As usual all you folks on this forum are great! Thank you so much for all the great advice

[centershot]

Horrors!!! I ran out of NRA 50-50 lube last Sunday!!!Luckily I had accumulated the ingredients foe Ben's Red, so, today I made my first batch. It seemed to me that it would be easier to mix the liquid ingredients first, then add the Lucas #2. Seemed to work, with the hotplate on LOW the mix was hovering right around the melt point of the wax. Added the grease and stirred......and stirred....... and stirred.....about twenty minutes later it was all mixed in. I think. My lube has teeny little dark red spots all mixed through it. I kept stirring but they didn't get any smaller. Is this OK?

[Soundguy]

I pre softened my wax and got good mixing, no discolored spots.

[centershot]

Well, I figure it was grease that didn't quite dissolve, so I re-nelted it and bumped he heat just a little over the "LOW" mark. All is good, it's cooling in the pans now, can't wait to use it!

[Soundguy]

Yup, Lucas red is fairly stable till you exceeds its heat range

[Casull]

Question from a newb. Is Lucas Red & Tacky #2 the same as, or can it be substituted for, Lucas Red & Tacky? Stopped at my local Wally and that was all they had. It says it has a temperature rating of 545 degrees, I believe. Thanks.

[Soundguy]

#2 is the NLGI 'weight' rating

[centershot]

OK, here's a question - Did anyone have any problems with accuracy declining when switching from Alox-based lube to Ben's Red? I'm loading for a .375 Winchester;

W-W cases
W-W LR primers
10.0 gr. Unique
Lee .380-255 plain base boolit, .380" diameter as dropped from mold
Alloy is 94-3-3
Average velocity = 1297 fps
Marlin Model 375 w/ microgroove rifling, slugs at .377"

When I lubed with Lee liquid Alox thinned with mineral spirits (2 coats) I was getting 1-1/2" groups @ 50 yds. When I lubed with Ben's Red group size shot up to 3-5"! Has anyone had this happen to them?

I am careful to clean the bore before switching lubes, even from a cold, clean barrel the Alox-lubed boolits shoot 1-1/2". I shot four 5 shot groups yesterday lubed with Brn's Red and groups opened up start6ing at 3" on target 1 and increasing to 5" on target 4. Can anyone offer some insight here?

[Ben]

Some of these are hard, this one is easy.
Go back to your lube you were using to shoot the 1.5 " groups, problem solved.

You probably had way too much Ben's Red on your bullets. The lube grooves on your particular Lee bullet can carry a lot of lube. It is amazing just how small of an amount of Ben's Red is needed for accurate clean shooting.

Ben

[centershot]

Some of these are hard, this one is easy.
Go back to your lube you were using to shoot the 1.5 " groups.

Ben

LOL! Well, yes Ben, I've done that. I wasn't expecting any problems by switching to Ben's Red, this caught me by surprise, to say the least! Can you offer any insight as to why this happened? This lube has been well-received and is used successfully by many people. This load seems to be well within it's capabilities; is the MG rifling a problem?

[Ben]

Did you see this in post 98, it is the only insight I can offer ?

You probably had way too much Ben's Red on your bullets. The lube grooves on your particular Lee bullet can carry a lot of lube. It is amazing just how small of an amount of Ben's Red is needed for accurate clean shooting.

[Soundguy]

OK, here's a question - Did anyone have any problems with accuracy declining when switching from Alox-based lube to Ben's Red? I'm loading for a .375 Winchester;

W-W cases
W-W LR primers
10.0 gr. Unique
Lee .380-255 plain base boolit, .380" diameter as dropped from mold
Alloy is 94-3-3
Average velocity = 1297 fps
Marlin Model 375 w/ microgroove rifling, slugs at .377"

When I lubed with Lee liquid Alox thinned with mineral spirits (2 coats) I was getting 1-1/2" groups @ 50 yds. When I lubed with Ben's Red group size shot up to 3-5"! Has anyone had this happen to them?

I am careful to clean the bore before switching lubes, even from a cold, clean barrel the Alox-lubed boolits shoot 1-1/2". I shot four 5 shot groups yesterday lubed with Brn's Red and groups opened up start6ing at 3" on target 1 and increasing to 5" on target 4. Can anyone offer some insight here?

Same projectiles, or did you switch from a micro groove to a conventional grease groove boolit?

[centershot]

No, GG boolits, Micro-groove barrel on the rifle.

[35 shooter]

Ben's Red is a very soft and slick lube, so it's possible it may not shoot the exact load you were using with alox.
If your not at some maximum load, maybe tweaking the powder charge up or down a bit May work.

[centershot]

I'm surprised that a load that shot so well would change so much by changing lubes. But, what do I know, I've been using alox lubes (NRA 50-50 and tumble lube) for forty years, this is the first time I've used anything else. Deer season is two weeks away, so any load tinkering will have to wait until the first of the year. Thank you all for your input, I'll make some changes and post my results.

[35 shooter]

Centershot,

I don't know that it will. All i can say is that Ben's Red shoots tighter groups with the same loads than any lube i've ever tried in my rifles....even when i worked those loads up with another lube.
I also like the way my first shots are always in the group no matter if it's a clean or fouled bore.

As far as tumble lubing with straight alox, it always purged badly every 5 to 7 shots with me.
Then i tried Ben's BLL tumble lube and it has worked as well as the Ben's Red lube for me and surprisingly(to me) with the same loads.
Both of Ben's lubes have worked for a ton of other folks i've recomended it for too.

NRA 50/50 is a very good lube, but didn't work out as well over all the temp. ranges, nor higher velocities that i shoot sometimes in my rifles.

Bottom line is that some bbls. vary in what they like and if yours likes what your using i would stick with it for sure.

Good luck with your hunting...hope you get a freezer full(and me too lol):grin:

Hope you get the Ben's Red working for you, i believe in it 100%.[smilie=2:

[Engineer1911]

Take your cooling pan of Ben's lube, turn off the freezer or refrigerator, and set the pan on the shelf. In about 10 minutes you will have cold lube and a defrosted frig or freezer.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

what a great thread

[Shiloh]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

I don't think anyone has experimented with this yet?
TreWax and MinWax, both have a natural paste wax product for wood, that are similar to JPW and are available at the hardware store ...and have been discussed here.

[Sam Sackett]

I think the carnuba wax is what is needed. I’m thinking any of the wood paste waxes will work as long as they are carnuba based.

Sam Sackett

[triggerhappy243]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

i have a can of this. i do not remember if i bought it or if my dad bought it and i wound up inheriting it.

[Bigslug]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

So. . .the JPW for both Ben's Red and 45/45/10 is now gone. And the Johnson's liquid for BLL is gone. What the all-encompassing actual ****? [smilie=b:

[Ben]

When making Ben's Red, I've substituted this.
So far, I cannot tell any difference in this and the Johnson's Paste wax.

Ben

https://i.imgur.com/ElyfiCx.jpg

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

I made a batch with Min Wax, works fine, first batch so nothing to compare it to.

[Ben]

If it shoots well and meets your needs , you don't have to compare it to anything.

Ben

[justindad]

SDS / MSDS sheets are not required to disclose all ingredients, only those related to safety matters. The Trewax SDS sheet doesn’t give anything helpful, but the JPW SDS does. The proportions can add up to 100%, but I wouldn’t take that as a guarantee that there are no undisclosed ingredients. Without further ado…

320752

[justindad]

Two possible DIY JPW recipes…

…two recipes in an old "Woodworkers Pocket Book" by Charles H Hayward for making furniture creams.
In both 6 parts carnauba wax, 3½ parts japan wax and 1½ parts paraffin wax are melted together.
In one that is then dissolved in about the same quantity of pure American turpentine to form a paste which is stirred well and to which is added a little french chalk and ammonia.
In the second recipe it is dissolved in 12 parts of pure American turpentine. 3 parts of white curd soap are shredded into 30 parts hot water. The two are then stirred together while hot and allowed to cool. This cleans as well as polishes.
https://forums.ybw.com/threads/what-does-carnauba-wax-dissolve-in.121209/
Looking in a few places, it seems melting Carnauba wax into other waxes helps to get it dissolved into acetone/turpentine/mineral spirits. Sometimes you have to gently warm up the solvent… which you probably don’t want to inhale.

[triggerhappy243]

SDS / MSDS sheets are not required to disclose all ingredients, only those related to safety matters. The Trewax SDS sheet doesn’t give anything helpful, but the JPW SDS does. The proportions can add up to 100%, but I wouldn’t take that as a guarantee that there are no undisclosed ingredients. Without further ado…

320752

is the sds/msds required to provide info/warnings for possible allergic reactions?

[justindad]

is the sds/msds required to provide info/warnings for possible allergic reactions?

I’ve never seen that info in an SDS. I don’t know how items are chosen for required reporting in an SDS, but if it’s not on the NFPA diamond then it’s probably not required.
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