compression die 101.....

[Knarley]

Sorry guys,
I know this has been brought up time and time again. BUT here we go.........
I have a Pedersoli "Quigley" in .45-70, and the wife has an 1871 H&R Target in 38-55.
I cast my own, weigh the charge, use SPG,& drop tube.
I have come to the conclusion that the only way to get as much powder as preported on this site is to use a compression die. How one gets 70gr of black into a .45-70 cartridge is beyond what I can do. Or get 55 gr. into a .38.55. I have also realized that in "squishin' the powder, I'm squishin' my boolits.
Wasn't so much a problem when I was first loading 63 gr of FFFG with WW for casting material, but now I'm wanting to get a little more serious about it.
NO,I haven't loaded thousands of rounds, & no, I'll NEVER be shooting for the gold cup, but I'd like to at least give the "Top Dawgs" in my area a little competition.
As far as the .38-55, well, I'd like to be able to give my sweet-heart the best boolits I can, starting out with deformed projectiles would be a bad start.
Now I have read many posts on the subjects of tubing, blow tubing, & compression on this site in the archives before posting here.
MOST of you folks seem pretty cool about things, mostly. So....... if I get flamed oh-well.
What I need to know is quite simple. I've looked a dies that do look like dies. Others look like just a plunger. Am I correct in assuming that they can be interchanged, or does that plunger fit into say an expander die? I've even seen one that leaves an open space down the center for a "more even burn"? REALLY?
What would be the best dies for the money and from who? I'm the type who would rather buy two dies, one for each....... set it and forget it, as I use a LEE Turret press for such loadings.
I have a couple presses for our cowboy shootin' boolits, we are into the cowboy action shooting and the long range would be more of a side match gig.
I'm also lookin' into shooting my 1860 "Henry" long range, but, I'll have to bother folks on a different thread for that.

I just want to thank you all for the information posted here through out the years. Your archives are a treasure trove of knowledge,facts and hints on "how to".

Regards,
Knarley Bob

[Gunlaker]

Bob I use RCBS dies mostly. The compreesion plugs I use come from Buffalo Arms and thread right into your expander die like you expected. At what distances are you shooting those rifles? Also, some of the time when people are talking about heavy charges they use bullets with reduced driving bands which gives you way more case capacity. The premium powders are also often more dense so you can fit more in the case. As an example of what you can do with bullets with reduced driving bands, I use 74gr of Goex Fg in one of my .45-70's and have only around a quarter inch of compression. Or I can load 77gr of FFFg Express with less compression. That much powder is a waste though if you are not shooting too far. Not a lot of guys are getting that much powder in a .38-55 unless they are using PP bullets or breech seating using the long Starline brass. Mine hold 58-59gr that way, but only 47gr or so with a bullet seated in the case.More powder is not always better though, and if you are shooting shorter ranges you can often do quite well with less. The same .45-70 I mentioned above also shot quite well with only 64gr of FFg Express. Chris.

[Gunlaker]

Sorry about the crappy formatting. I typed the post with paragraphs, but the forum seems to have removed them!

[Keith Andersen]

Here you go Knarley. http://www.buffaloarms.com/search.aspx?TERM=compression plug
You might just as well bite the bullet and do it right.

[montana_charlie]

How one gets 70gr of black into a .45-70 cartridge is beyond what I can do.
You may not need to.
Figure out how deep you want to seat your bullet.
Put in enough powder to touch the bullet base.
See how that shoots.

Add three grains of powder, without changing seating depth, and see how that shoots.

Keep working up until things cease to improve, then work back to 'best' in smaller increments.

If you use Lyman or RCBS dies, the plug in your expander die has a 9/16 x 18 thread.
The compression plugs sold by Buffalo Arms Co. will fit that hole ... or you can grind one yourself from a bolt with that thread.
(BACO also sells various sizes in expander plugs)



I shoot a 45/90, but have never put in 90 grains. I have a 75 grain load that shoots real well, and another that uses 83 grains.

CM

[marvelshooter]

I get pretty much the same results as Gunlaker. I get 46 grains of 3f in my .38-55 cases under a grease cookie and 250 grain Lee boolit. This is with both a drop tube and about 1/4" compression.

[Don McDowell]

If you hold the scale pan above the funnel on the case and pour slowly you can get more powder in than just dumping. I use the Frankford arsenal powder funnel with the 4 inch extention tube.
For a compression die the afore mentioned Buffalo arms dies are good. Track of the Wolf also offers some that are a bit cheaper.
You can also use the Lyman M die or the RCBS expander die and set it to compress the powder and wad to the depth needed to seat your bullet without bulging the nose, making for a loss of accuracy and leading problems.
Some folks have advocated making a hardwood dowel to the length needed to compress the powder and using the seating die.

[Knarley]

That pretty much sums it up here too....62gr-.45-70 & 45grin the .38-55. Around here, in Minnesota, 200 yards is about it. Know a friend that range goe either 700 or 750 yrds, that will be a hoot.
I was screwing around with WW's, a 500gr LEE boolit,SPG and a vitamin E capsule for a grease cookie and getting away with it!( Well , sorta)
I'll admit, I didn't have a clue. Not that I'm much better at it now.
But I'd like to find a couple dies that can be set up on my LEE Turret press. I'd put both dies on the same carrier( I call them pucks) and be done with it.
I guess that drop tubing is kinda out of fashion these days, but my system isn't too much more work anywho. My cases slide into my drop tubes & stay there. I can load up a case, then drop the charge, pull out the case without ever getting off my stool. ( I'm lazy) I use a LEE "Perfect Powder Measure" to drop my charges, then I weigh them. The dropper get me in the ballpark to start with, then to the scale. If I'm being real persnickety that day, I use the balance scale, if not, the electronic.
I haven't been separating my brass as of yet, but would be a good idea. I suppose trimming to the same length would help too......DUH!!!
I know I have a lot of work to do, but I know a lot more now than I did back then, thanks to you guys and this site.
Don't worry, I'll be around,

Knarley

[semtav]

I don't know where I got in the habit of driving things fast, but I get 90 - 95 grains in my 45-90, 70 gr in my 40-65 and 80 gr in my 40-82. If they didn't shoot so good, I wouldn't drive em so fast.

Like a couple people have said, buy a couple compression plugs from buffalo arms and then you can get a couple lyman M dies to screw them in to.

[Knarley]

I'll be getting a couple compression dies from Montana Swaging, they arrived @ the office yesterday. One for my 45-70 one for the wife's 38-55. I hope they come with a good set of instructions.......