Non-Buyers Remorse - 44WCF Marlin "Safety"

[Foto Joe]

While wandering around gun shops in Kingman AZ yesterday I was looking behind the counter and noticed a tag on a lever gun that read "44 WCF" and asked to fondle the gun. Turns out it's a "Marlin Safety" in 44-40 probably dating back to the early 1900's. Using a bore light I peered down the hole to find that it still has rifling but it's pretty rough. There's practically no bluing left anywhere on the gun and the stock has been repaired after it was probably used as a sledge hammer from the looks of it. All in all it's probably a shooter but not something that I would estimate would be very accurate with the bore looking like that, at least you wouldn't have to worry about dinging it up given the overall condition. (sorry no pics)

I would absolutely love to have a Marlin with a Ballard style barrel and 44-40 is one of my favorite cartridges but common sense told me that $689 for a pretty beat up lever gun of questionable reliability was probably more than I should venture. The counter guy said they've only had it on consignment for a week and a half and that the owner was firm on his price which basically meant "don't even THINK about making an offer." I just couldn't bring myself to shell out that amount of fun tickets for what to me looked like a glorified wall hanger.

Tell me I made the right decision 'cause right now I've got the opposite of buyers remorse I think.

[fouronesix]

I would also have walked away. For me, the exterior finish would not have been the deal killer. The rough bore would have been the deal killer. You could have probably bought the gun, had it re-barreled or re-lined and ended up with a shooter, but it's inherent collectible value for potential re-sale in the future wouldn't be much.

[Salmoneye]

The model should be on the top tang...If there is a peep sight, it usually covers the model number...

In .44-40 it should be an 1894...1893 was the long action for .30-30, etc....

[TXGunNut]

You did good, if you keep your eye out and cruise enough used gun racks you'll find a better one, probably not at that price point tho. Some nice 94's in 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20 at my favorite gun shop but I'm way short in the cash department so I just stare and smile.

[Foto Joe]

Sorry I forgot to mention that it was a '94 with what looked like a 20" barrel.

I wouldn't mind the bluing gone but the buttstock was fixed by somebody who owned a hammer. I wouldn't consider re-barreling or lining, I enjoy the history and character of original guns and that one had both in spades, too much so for the price.

I'll keep tryin' to wear out my modern '94 until something better comes along.

[rintinglen]

It never ceases to amaze me at the prices some folks ask. From your description, the gun is darn near beat to death with a rough bore and were talking nearly 700 fo it? Run away--there are other better fish in the sea. Granted, the cost might be greater, but an over-priced beater will remain that, while a decent gun well maintained will appreciate in value and be more fun in the interim.

[enfield]

the model 1889 says "marlin safety" on top.

[Hickok]

Fotojoe, just my thoughts, I think you did right by not buying it. It would have been misery and fretting and more money to fix , and it never would have been what you wanted.

[cajun shooter]

Although it was a 44WCF which is my cartridge of choice, you did the correct thing by walking away. If you would have purchased that rifle your posting would have read "Boy Am I SICK Today, I purchased a piece of junk". Take Care David

[Foto Joe]

Although it was a 44WCF which is my cartridge of choice, you did the correct thing by walking away. If you would have purchased that rifle your posting would have read "Boy Am I SICK Today, I purchased a piece of junk".

I'm one of those people who likes the "joy of the hunt" so to speak. I'm not in a hurry to find another gun and when the right one happens to show up I'll know it. I missed out on a pre-safety 336 a month or so ago. A friend who has a 80% 1930's Winnie '94 got a line on a guy who was selling some guns, one of which was the 336. He wanted a shooter so he wouldn't use the Winnie as a plinker and the guy wanted $200 for the 336, I almost broke my arm getting my wallet out but my buddy needed it more than I so I let him have it. The up-side is that I'm willingly unemployed and he isn't meaning that he doesn't have time to do cast boolit load development for his new plinker. I graciously offered that if he supplied the powder, primers and brass I'd supply the boolits and gas checks. I've now pushed a few hundred rounds out of "his" 336 with three different powders and umpteen different load combinations seeking perfection. I'm gonna have to give it back to him...eventually.:sad: In the meantime I'm getting plenty of load data for 30-30 that will be of use for me on my Henry. By the way, he handed me a jug of Lever Revolution and I'm not impressed with it for 30-30 under a 311041.

As far as the '94 44WCF, I enjoyed getting to actually get my hands on a historic weapon like that. Living in Cody WY I'm immersed in historic guns right down the street at the Cody Firearms Museum (http://centerofthewest.org/explore/firearms/) but for some reason they frown on you fondling them.

Well... the sun is up and I've got a Marlin '94 wanting me to go out and send some .431 44 Mags down the tube so I'd better listen to my guns and take them for a walk.

[fouronesix]

:) Oh goodness, the museum there is simply a primer for future purchases!

Unfortunately, some LGSs in places like Cody, cater to travelers and tourists who get caught up in the Old West stuff, so supply and sell to that impulse "market".

But, once in a great while really great pieces surface in places like Cody. About 40 years ago a friend was traveling on business through Cody. He had some time so decided to walk down the street to take in the local flavor. He walked into a small antique shop. There, leaning up against a back corner, was an original Hawken rifle in good shape!!! And it was for sale at a reasonable price. The rest is history :)

[pull the trigger]

I picked up a mid 1920s model 93 in 30-30 a month ago in nice shape. The wood is nice and the blue is thin all over but no damage. Came with a tang sight on it. Shoots beautifully. Paid $600 at my fav gun shop. So I say keep looking. Rifles need rifling.

[TXGunNut]

Rumor has it if you get to know the right guys at the Cody Museum they will let you handle a few of the guns that are not on display. I spent an awesome day there several years ago (no backroom visit :-() and can't wait to get back. Just down the road for me as well....but it's a REALLY long road.
Have you been to their annual gun show? I understand it's pretty special.

[Foto Joe]

Have you been to their annual gun show? I understand it's pretty special.

I'm not familiar with a museum gun show but I think that you're referring to the annual Winchester Gun Show and yes I have been to that one and no it's not for us mere mortals, if you're "monthly" income isn't in excess of six figures there's really nothing there of interest. There's some pretty interesting stuff there but the prices are off the chart even for junk. Keep in mind that there's a lot of millionaires drawn to this show and the vendors know it. I have a lot more fun going to the little shows where folks set up card tables and clean out their loading rooms.

The Cody Firearms Museum isn't the only attraction of interest to people with our affliction. There's also the Cody Dug Up Gun Museum (http://americanhandgunner.com/codys-dug-up-gun-museum/) located right downtown, it's privately and locally owned and receives no funds from the city. If you're passing through I highly recommend a walk through and a chat with the owner Hans.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Foto Joe: is there any possibility that you know a Veterinarian named Melvin Fillerup? He is a friend I met at Front Sight and from what I understood he moonlights as a cook on Elk Hunts in the fall. Fairly well known in Cody WY.

As far as that gun goes; the guy who owns it has no idea of the actual value and is just trying to screw someone.

A gun in that condition is worth maybe $200 as it is a complete rebuild to be even a decent shooter. The barrel could be sleeved and the wood is readily available and certainly could be reblued but then you'd have $700 into it.

The problem with that gun is that they made a zillion of them and in that caliber as at the time it was by far the most popular Carbine Caliber. And the fact that this one hasn't been taken care of only diminishes it's value,,, not increases it. If it was in nice condition and had most of it's bluing wood and rifling IE: it was taken care of!,,, it could be worth $12-1500,,, but as it sits, it sounds like junk. Rifles that get worked hard can end up in the condition like you describe, however they are also not worth anything as collectables unless there is something particularly rare about them. Just because they are old doesn't mean they are worth big$.

I would have told the salesman to push a bid of $200 and demand that he actually presented it,, and thoroughly insulted him if he didn't. A firm price from someone who has no idea of the value of what he has, is just plain stupid. Also the salesman should have known this and not even taken the gun on consignment at that price as he has no chance of selling it in Cody WY where lots of people actually know about guns like this.

My question would be,,, Do you want to sell it,,, or just show it off?

When a dealer takes a gun on consignment it effectively becomes his gun and is registered on his books. If you want it back it has to go back thru DROS. It's like that here in CA but I am pretty sure that is Federal Law. at least in WY you wouldn't have to wait 10 days to get it back but you'd still have to pay for the background check.

I am working on a nice Springfield 1903 Sporter that the people want $475 firm for. However the Gunshop owner likes me more than he likes them, and as pushed $300 for me. I won't buy it for more and the gun has been on the rack approaching 6 mo. with no interest. Pretty soon the owner will have to take less or take it back and pay the fees too boot. I'm firm at $300 and I've got the money. However I also don't even need this gun, so there is no urgency whatsoever.

In other words I can easily take it or leave it. You need to be the same way.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

The Cody Firearms Museum isn't the only attraction of interest to people with our affliction. There's also the Cody Dug Up Gun Museum (http://americanhandgunner.com/codys-dug-up-gun-museum/) located right downtown, it's privately and locally owned and receives no funds from the city. If you're passing through I highly recommend a walk through and a chat with the owner Hans.-Foto Joe


I had limited time on that trip thru town, will check in with Hans if I make it up there again. I could use another steak at the Irma Hotel, neat place.
I've heard about the prices at that show, they don't scare me. Folks are generally pretty friendly at those high-end shows and even rich folks like a bargain. I doubt I'd be there to buy anything anyway.
IF you were to buy that 44WCF would you restore it to shooting condition or just hang it on the wall? If you could buy it right it might be fun.

[fouronesix]

A good friend has an M89 Marlin SRC in 44-40. It is truly a beater but functional (barely). Even had a stove bolt used in place of the main tang screw. Probably saw lots of miles in a saddle scabbard- as an old scabbard formed to the gun by time came with the gun when he got it. He's disabled so can't do much. I agreed to take it completely apart, clean it and see if it could be returned to shootable condition. I spent half a day working on it and fixed a small part. Got it shooting and it did reasonably well at 50 yds.

More than that though. I was truly impressed with the quality, the workmanship and fit of all the parts. Just makes me scratch my head when looking at how some "modern" guns are put together. The difference is obvious and glaring.

[Foto Joe]

Randy,

Since I don't own any critters and I'm not into teasing grizzly bears in the fall I'm sorry to say that I'm not familiar with your friend in Cody, the name sounds familiar but that's about as far as it goes I'm afraid. Regarding the location of the 44-40 Marlin, it's not in Cody. I'm one of those people who escapes the ice in the winter and I'm currently in Lake Havasu City, AZ. I was up in Kingman (60 miles north) the other day hunting for powder when I came across it. The way the counter guy reacted to my questions and observations about the Marlin I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he's the one who actually owns the gun, I guess their not used to somebody actually looking down the hole in front and doing a decent outside inspection of old guns, who knows.

I fully agree with you that "just 'cause it's old doesn't mean it's worth big bucks" completely. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find an old Marlin like that in Cody although the price would probably have been more commiserate with the condition I would think. I definitely don't "need" another lever gun by any means but I'm always on the hunt for stuff that others have grown tired of or better yet want to get rid of at a decent price. I always go at it with the attitude of, "I'll use it for a while and then sell it for a little profit" but as we all know, when it comes to guns that rarely happens. The only gun I've sold in the last 35 years was to my oldest daughter last year to keep her from going and buying a plastic gun. Besides the gun I sold her was too modern for my tastes (S&W Model 39-2) and had been the second one I'd ever purchased when I was 21.

TXGunNut,

It's a shame that you didn't have a couple of days in Cody to entertain yourself, we see that all the time with the tourists in the summertime. My wife used to work in the hotel industry in Cody and managed a lodge a few miles outside of the park for a couple of years. She'd see families all the time who were on their vacation of a lifetime and trying to squeeze it all into a day or two.

As far as what I'd do with that Marlin, it would be a shooter and a wall hanger. The problem is, I won't buy a paperweight and then spend the bucks to turn it into a usable gun. Even if I could buy this one right I'm afraid that with a sewer pipe for a barrel it wouldn't be of much use. I don't mind a little "character" on an old gun but this one had more than I'm willing to accept.


Just makes me scratch my head when looking at how some "modern" guns are put together. The difference is obvious and glaring.

Yes & No. I'm not a fan of modern guns, especially ones that you need tools just to get them apart. The first time I took apart a Colt revolver I was amazed at how simple they were. My wife handed me cash last year for my birthday and told me to go buy what ever I wanted. I spent several months searching for the right Henry 30-30 and finally found one with what I consider Grade 4 wood on it. Even though it's a "modern" gun, the fit and finish as well as overall look and feel of that gun are exceptional.

[fouronesix]

Well, you really have to dig into the guts of a gun and inspect the parts carefully to see how they are made and the basic quality of parts and craftsmanship of the assembly.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'd agree with most of what has been said. It wouldn't take much in external finish or bore condition to make this rifle worth that price, but the two of them condemn it to being worth a lot less.

I can't imagine that he will come down a lot soon after putting it up for sale, so it is better to wait a while. If you put someone's back up in February, the chances are that it will stay put up in April, when he might otherwise have listened to reason. if you live some way off, and can make that offer in a letter or e-mail, the time to reflect will often do you more good than a snap decision on the phone or face to face.

[Foto Joe]

So...what do I come across down here in AZ at another gun shop the other day?? A 1979 '94 Legendary Frontiersman Winnie in 38-55, unfortunately the consignor is once again REALLY proud of a commemorative at a price of $900. I don't know if it's been fired but I suspect it has as it's just sitting in the used gun rack with all the other beaters. I need to go back down there and ask to fondle it and get a closer look. The price is actually right about where retail belongs for an unfired commemorative with the sleeve and box, both of which are not with it.

[lobogunleather]

131383Other than a couple of .22 rifles I've had through the years my only Marlin is a 1905-production '94 in .44-40. 24" octagon barrel, good bore, very good stock and forend, with about 75% finish overall. One of the main reasons I purchased the Marlin was to have a .44-40. I have Winchesters in .32-20, .25-20, .38-40, .45-70, and .45-90, but not a single .44-40. I am enjoying it quite a bit. Now working on cast bullet loads (of course) with every intention of keeping this 110-year old rifle working as intended. These old timers are out there and can be found in decent condition for far less than the price tag on the beater described by the OP.

[TXGunNut]

So...what do I come across down here in AZ at another gun shop the other day?? A 1979 '94 Legendary Frontiersman Winnie in 38-55, unfortunately the consignor is once again REALLY proud of a commemorative at a price of $900. I don't know if it's been fired but I suspect it has as it's just sitting in the used gun rack with all the other beaters. I need to go back down there and ask to fondle it and get a closer look. The price is actually right about where retail belongs for an unfired commemorative with the sleeve and box, both of which are not with it.

Bought one NIB for a lot less than that a few months ago. I shot it w/ BP and boolits of course. Since then I acquired a 1901 vintage 94 in 38-55 (definitely NOT NIB but very nice in it's own ways) so my LF is quite possibly trade bait...and no, it won't take $900 for me to part with it. If I ever go to a gun show again I should drag it along to make things interesting.

[Foto Joe]

I'm afraid that I'm one of those guys who lusts after the old Black Powder cartridges. It happened one day when I decided to load up some 45 Colt in as close to 1873 mil spec as I could get. With a compression die and 230gr boolits I managed to cram 38 grains of 3f Swiss into the brass. I've still got a couple dozen of those rounds five years later because the first time I pulled the trigger on a SAA with one I thought I broke my hand, they sting a little bit!! Having said that I've also loaded a lot of 44-40 in Black Powder for my SAA Frontier and here again, they're VERY impressive. I'd love to send some down the tube of a lever gun with a chronograph just for fun to see how fast those little pills go out of a 20" barrel. The 38-55 of course would need to get the same treatment. Smokeless powder is definitely easier to load and of course the cleanup is easier but there's nothing like that BOOM and cloud with the original powder that the cartridges were intended for.