Please help with Star sizer issues

[Hallorann]

Well today my new Star/Magma sizer and heated base came in, and I've spent the afternoon getting everything set up. Or should I say, trying to get everything set up.


To make a long story short, here is the most recent problem that I am having:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7943/lubedbulletsbi7.jpg


The bullets are coming out with lube in the groove allright, but there are also 3 blobs of lube on the nose!!

I am sure that I've got something set up wrong, but cannot figure out what it is...

Here is what I've done so far:


Per the Star/Magma "Instructions" I plugged all but 3 of the holes in the size die with shot.

There are 6 "rings" of 3 holes each on my .401 sizing die. I plugged all but the 3rd "ring" of 3 holes from the top.

Then I lined up the lube groove of the bullet to be sized with the unplugged holes, and took a measurement from the base of the bullet (nose down) to the top of the size die (right side up). This measurement was .630."

Next, the instructions say "push the bullet into the die to that depth making sure the grooves are in line with the holes."

Ok, so I put the die into the press, placed the bullet into the die, and VERY carefully "pushed" the bullet in tiny increments with the punch until it was .630" deep into the die.

Then I adjusted the punch so that when the handle is all the way down, the punch barely touches the bullet. After that, I tightened the lock ring on the punch.


The result was what you see in the above pic.

Please help. I hope this explanation makes sense. Getting tired.



Thanks!!

[R.M.]

It looks to me that the hole you plugged aren't sealed. Did you tamp/peen the shot in the holes tightly. I find that you need to squash the pellet in there pretty good. Also, make sure that there's no lead poking out on the inside. It'll scar the bullet as you push it through.
There's some instructions on the Magma web-site. Have you checked them out?

http://www.magmaengineering.com/pdf/StarSizerInstructions.pdf

[Marine Sgt 2111]

It could be either too high a lube pressure and too high lube temp or a combination of both. Turn down the lube temp until it stops flowing then increase it until it fills the groove. Back off the lube pressure until you get unfilled grooves then increase it until they fill again. You may also consider plugging one or two of the remaining holes that you have not already plugged and then jockey around with the lube temp and pressure. When I am starting out with a new die and unset bullet combo, that's what I do. For what it's worth.

[mtgrs737]

My guess is that you may have too much heat on the lube (too fluid) and it is squirting past the base or the nose or both and getting picked up by the next boolit coming through. You may also be putting too much presure on the lube and the over heated lube is squirting into the nose of the next boolit due to the residual presure that is still present in the pump section. I would let the sizer cool for a few hours and then adjust the heater until it barely is warm, then remove the boolits from the die and pump the handle until you get only a small amount of firm lube to squirt through the holes in the die without a boolit in place. This would be your starting place. Now put a boolit in and limit the stroke on the lube pump to 1/2 the normal stroke to see how much lube is in the groove. If there is little then experiment with more pressure to see how much is needed to fill the lube groove in your boolit. Too much presure on too hot lube may have enough residual presure to squirt out the die holes as soon as a boolit uncovers the holes as in when the base of the previous boolit is pushed out of the way by the nose of the next boolit. The nose would get lubed like the ones in your picture. Back off the heat and back off the handle presure until you get only enough luge for the lube groove.

I have experianced the same nose lubing when I had too much heat and cranked the lube reasviour screw down too much.

[dmftoy1]

Don't get too frustrated ...I had EXACTLY the same problem when I started out and it almost made me want to quit. It's going to vary as to what you need to do but in my case I found that using more pressure on the lube reservoir and alot less heat got rid of it for me.

When I first started out I had enough head and pressure in the reservoir that if there wasn't a bullet in the die you'd see 4-5 inches of "lube bead" coming out of the die . . . now if I push the last bullet out of the die it's maybe 1/8 - 1/4 of an inch that comes out before it stops. (if that helps at all)

Good luck!!

FWIW - I still have a similiar problem when sizing/lubing 314299's for some reason that that I haven't been able to work out yet.

Have a good one,
Dave

[TAWILDCATT]

are you pushing with nose down.almos look like you are base down.what ever you are not adjusted right.I made a bolt and nut assembly for future adjustments.Star used to make the die bullet specific but they must be making them generic now.give the punch a turn down.they are not nose punches but base punch.

[crabo]

I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but the instructions say to leave the middle row of holes unblocked if there is one lube groove used.

I do 2 things when I start having "nose" lubing along with the groove lubing. I turn my clamp on light off for a little while and let the lube cool a little. I also went to a 75 watt bulb instead of the 100 watt to keep the lube from getting too hot and ozzing out. I also set the punch in a little deeper and that seems to help.

I haven't figured out the simple way to adjust the star yet. I know I am going to start measuring and writing down the punch height so I can spend less time adjusting it. I know I will have to jack with it for a while before I get it running just right when I change calibers, so I try to lube a lot of bullets in one caliber before I change lubing operations.

Crabo

[Mark]

I am no expert and I don't want to confuse things but I had the same problem. My fix is the exact opposite of dmftoy1. I not use more heat and less pressure with LBT lube. I also found that I needed to heat up the Star before using it so now I turn on the heater about 30-45 minutes before starting. Be patient! When you get it right, they work great.
TAWILDCATT-I recently ordered a new star die. I thought I could just give them a mold number and they would plug the die for me and set the hole distances. They don't do that anymore. You have to give them the measurements and the new die comes with a small bag of shot.
Mark

[Springfield]

Lube is too hot. I have found less heat-more pressure works better than more heat-less pressure. It will take a while but you will learn how much of each you need after a few thousand bullets. Just remember, the secondary piston is pushing the lube into the bullet, let it do it's job. You don't need all that much heat.

[Hallorann]

First of all, thank you all VERY MUCH for the helpful replies.

I've probably got 8-10 hours tied up in trial and error getting this thing set up, and it has been very frustrating at times.

The nose lube problem is getting better, but has not gone away completely.

I am using less pressure on the lube "hopper," and also less heat. The instructions say that the heat level is set at the factory, and that is the setting that I was using at first. It appears that this setting is too hot for the lube that I am using (Carnauba Red). I also discovered that turning the heat all the way up causes the unit to become VERY hot, and it takes quite a while for it to cool to a reasonable level.

Using less heat and less pressure has helped the problem considerably. However, all bullets still have 3 small blips of lube on the nose, so they all must still be wiped clean.

SO...it's getting better, but the problem is still not solved completely.

Also, I managed to break the upper O-ring in the die housing during this long grueling process. The replacement is size #14 O-ring...just FYI.

[Hallorann]

Couple more questions guys

If the lube groove is not filling out completely, what is the fix? More pressure, or more heat?


Also, the lever at the back of the sizer that pushes the lube in has become very sluggish to spring back into place, and now the spring is not being compressed completely when the handle is pushed all the way down. What's going on here?

[Jon K]

Too much pressure on the lube feed. Ditto, ditto all of the above, you need to figure out what works for you- temp, lube, boolit design.

Jon

[HeavyMetal]

Several things go on with the Stars. Your last post mentioned issues with what I call the injector cam. You may be out of lube! If you look in the machine you'll see plenty in it but the pressure system does not run the full length of the resovoir! I've found myself out of lube at about the halfway mark so please check that.

If you've been wasting a lot of lube trying to adjust the unit you may be out. The injector is also dependent on how fluid the lube is. If it's acting like it's sticky the lube is to cool. Check both before you go any further.

Running a Star is not complicated but it is very different than the Lyman or RCBS sizers.

The Lymans and RCBS relay on the pressure system to push lube into the bullet grooves. The Star does not!

The Star handle move smoothly through the sizing stroke right up until about the last 1/16 in an inch of stroke.

Then the handle comes in contact with the "injector cam" on the back of the machine.

At this point the unit should be set up to have the groove in the bullet just above the hole in the sizing die!

As you push the handle through this last bit of stroke it brings the bullet groove and the hole in the die into alignment and injects lube into said groove! I've always used the center holes in my sizing dies as it makes adjustments easier when you switch dies. I also try to stay with single lube grooves.

Another factor might be how quickly (or not) your pushing your bullets through the machine. If you'll take the time to stack a couple nose on base you'll see the "air gap" I'm referring to!

The longer you take pushing your bullets through the die the longer the lube has to ooze out and get cut off by the bullet nose!

Hope this information helps out!

[Hallorann]

OK.

I have finally managed to turn out a few bullets that are almost free of lube on the nose:

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7863/lubedkw1.jpg

As you can see, the grooves are pretty well filled out, but there are still a few blips of lube, albeit much smaller than before.

Is it possible to not have any lube on the nose, or is there always going to be a little bit?

[HeavyMetal]

What you got is best your gonna get! again the air gap between base and nose of bullet!

Looks to me like you've hit the balance point for this particular bullet! With a little luck you can now size and lube 4 or 5 hundred an hour with no trouble!

I always give my finished rounds a quick polish with a soft rag as I put them in the plastic bullet boxs! This is the final inspection point and, if your doing it right, the last of about 5 or 6 inspection points!

By the way your bullets look good!

[Hallorann]

Thanks, heavyMetal

However, I did not cast these bullets. They were sent to me "as cast" by a friend to help me get started. Good thing, too, because I had to have them to set up the Star.

[Springfield]

Those look very good to me. yes, it is possible to get no lube on the nose but it rarely happens. And Heavy Metal, if your Star is running out of lube while it is half full then something is wrong. Personally I think you just need a bit more heat and wait a bit, the lower chamber will fill up eventually. I have 3 Stars and they all empty out it the temps are right.

[HeavyMetal]

Springfield:
I was actually using my Star yesterday and realised that the issue has always been that I couldn't get a full stick of lube in the machine and then screw the top on!

So I had always broken a stick in half and then continued on! That was my running out problem!

Last night I was determined to load a full stick or die trying! The problem was compressing the spring, the one that goes on top of the stick of lube, enough to get the threads started on the cap. A handy 10 foot 2X4 gave me enough leverage to compress the spring, I just put it under a shelf support and on top of the pressure screw, I was able to push down enough to compress that spring and spin the top on!

I think this is the first time I've actually seen the presure screw all the way up when the machine is in use!

The Star has always been neat in supplying tools or using existing parts to do more than one thing. I'll point out the reversable pressure screw that also pulls the spring loaded plunger back out of the machine so you can reload bullet lube as one of those neat tools. However I've never seen anything for getting the lube in the machine.

I do believe that the sticks of lube that are available now are set up for the Lyman, RCBS, saeco units. These are longer and have a hole through them to fit over the pressure screws that are built into that type sizer.

I further belive that the Star originally used a shorter stick that did not have said hole in the middle and might have been a bit shorter??

I could also go into the old 50/50 Javelina lube which is very soft and certainly was the only lube around for who knows how long. I just hate that stuff!

Might be nice if our lube guys made sticks of lube specifically for the Stars!

[Marshal Kane]

I was actually using my Star yesterday and realised that the issue has always been that I couldn't get a full stick of lube in the machine and then screw the top on!s!. . .
heavyMetal,
The lube sticks that I get off eBay from Jake's are slightly under 4" long x 1" in diameter. You can check this against what you're using. They have no center holes and when the reservoir is near empty, drop right in and the cap screws on without using a 2"x4". I don't know how far down you crank your pressure screw but mine goes down to about an inch from the pressure screw handle. If you do the same with yours, you should be able to insert a full stick of lube in your Star. The first time I refilled my reservoir with a lube stick, I made the mistake of doing it too soon and had a dickens of a time getting the cap screwed on. Will never make that mistake again. Best wishes.

[Marshal Kane]

Couple more questions guys

If the lube groove is not filling out completely, what is the fix? More pressure, or more heat?

Also, the lever at the back of the sizer that pushes the lube in has become very sluggish to spring back into place, and now the spring is not being compressed completely when the handle is pushed all the way down. What's going on here?
If you're using a hard lube, and the lever at the back of the sizer is getting sluggish, try a bit more heat. If the lube groove is not filling out completely, you need more pressure in the reservoir. There's a balance between pressure and heat that you have to experiment with to get everything working in sync. Not rocket science but there's definitely a learning curve here. Also, if you are using a Lyman heater, contrary to what they say about the heater being preset for temperature, do not be fooled. IME, the heater is set up too hot for some lubes so when the Star feels warm to the touch, cycle the heater on and off at intervals rather than leave it on and trust to the thermostat. If you're using an adjustable heater, run it at the lowest temperature setting that will allow your lube to flow. Finally, stay upbeat. Most of the time my bullets come out clean at the nose but sometimes I get what you're getting and have to "tweak" my Star a bit. Best wishes.

[pipehand]

with my Stars. There is a fine balance betweem the lube pressure, temp, and injection point. Also one of the things that can happen when adding solid sticks is that air is introduced into the injection chamber. Without the air, lube only gets squirted into the die when it gets a compression stroke on the injector. If there is air present, it gets compressed, lube, sometimes with an air gap, gets put into the grease groove. Then the next bullet is sent through- but instead of waiting for the handle stroke to inject lube at the right time, the residual pressure from the trapped, and compressed, air in the lube squirts out a bit before the bullet is lined up. I haven't had that problem since I started melting my bulk homemade lube and pouring it into the reservoir. No air pockets that way.

[Dale53]

I find that I needed to have an adjustable rheostat for my Lyman heater (that I use with my Star AND my RCBS lube/sizers). I had a Dremel tool rheostat and that is what I use. Using Lars Red Carnauba lube, I find I only need to have the Star feel slightly warm to the touch. Use the minimum heat necessary for best results.

You can easily make a suitable rheostat from a light dimmer and an electrical utility box. Rig it up to plug the heater into the box wired with the rheostat and run a line to plug into the nearest outlet. The Lyman heater is low wattage so you don't have to worry about overloading the light dimmer.

Dale53

[dmftoy1]

+1 what Dale said for Carnuba Red.

[mtgrs737]

A Reostat for control of Lyman heater is easy to make. Here a couple of Pics of mine, it works like a charm.

[Dale53]

mtgrs737;
That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. A true solution for a relatively small amount of money.

Dale53

[HeavyMetal]

Marshal Kane:

My lube sticks are averaging 4 1/2 in length. The pressure screw never seems to go lower than about 1 1/2 above the top screw.

Suspect it a little "tolerance" stacking over the years of production. Please remember Mine is one of the last out of San Diego. I have about ten sticks of my current lube still in stock. Think it's time I stared asking abot 4 inch solid stick.

Just found out the other day the Saeco's also use the solid stick platform, so somebody should be making it. I'll go to e bay but only as a real last resort!

I'll do some checking first!

[utk]

I think Lars has both holed and solid lube sticks. Your choice. They are 4 1/2 long.
http://www.lsstuff.com/index.html

[Springfield]

I can run all my Stars until there is only 2 threads showing on the pressure screw.

[Marshal Kane]

. . . I'll do some checking first!
heavyMetal,
I would check the pressure spring assembly when it's out of the reservoir to see if the pressure screw will go any lower. The only tip I was trying to pass on is to run the pressure screw down as far as possible before adding a full lube stick to the reservoir or there will be dickens to pay trying to get the cap back on. Cutting lube sticks in half will work but it just means refilling the reservoir more often. BTW, Jake's lube sticks are sold on eBay as a "Buy It Now" item so there is NO bidding on it. These are set prices and he discounts for volume. I still have over a dozen sticks of his "Purple" ceresin lube which is a hard lube but doesn't require a lot of heat to get flowing. Jake's also has other lubes both softer and harder. If you don't find 4" sticks elswhere you can get them from Jake. Hope this helps.

[Marshal Kane]

I can run all my Stars until there is only 2 threads showing on the pressure screw.
That sounds about like mine. Glad too, because the pressure spring can be one m****r to compress.