New "Bargin" rifles"

[vmathias]

I have noticed it seems that every manufacturer is coming out with a "price point" or Bargin rifle. Winchester XPR, Ruger American, Savage Axis, Browing XB3 etc.. They are obviously coming out to compete with other brands and all comes down to sales. Most people in this day and age/economy cannot afford the higher priced rifles. To you rifles experts, are these price point rifles really that much different than the higher priced rifles? I know things like barrel nuts, machine time and synthetic cut manufacture time but besides this is the quality there? I do own the Ruger American and I can say that I am highly impressed.

[John Allen]

I have been wondering this myself for awhile now. If you are regularly shooting at longer distances 300 yards or over I think a custom or semi custom rifle can not be beat. The problem I see is in this day and age most people do not shoot more than 100 yards. I have a beautiful custom built 1903 in 270 winchester that will put the bullets in one hole after another all day long. It is not practical at all but fun to shoot.

[vmathias]

Nice, I will say when I bought my Ruger American in 243 I was blown away with the accuracy and overall quality of this rifle. I compared it side by side with A Remington 700 (Bolt was grittier than hell) Mossberg 4x4, Thompson center venture and a savage 111. In my opinion the only gun that beat it out in overall feel and quality was the Thompson center venture. My only reason for not purchasing the Thompson was weight compared to the Ruger. I bought this gun mainly for Coyote hunting and knew I would be doing long walks and hikes with it. The Ruger won for what I needed.

[Smoke4320]

I have sold several Ruger Americans and the Marlin XS/XL series and they will hold up accuracy wise with the best of them to 300 yds ..
Several customers have shown me multiple ragged/near ragged 1 hole 100yd groups with American 7/08 and 308's.. they are doing this with $300-$400 guns and $300-$500 scopes

[texassako]

I got to shoot a couple of Savage Axis, 2 youth models in .243 and 1 .22-250, over the last couple of years. It appears to me as a fit and finish cost reduction to get the price down more than anything. Stocks a little flimsy, not the slickest action, triggers could be better, metal finish a bit lacking, and all 3 shot little bitty groups at 100 yards with factory ammo. I suspect buyers expect good accuracy and reliability these days in even the cheap models, and will slam a model with bad reviews if they don't get it. Cheaper to be accurate then to not sell any.

[pietro]

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No game animal I know of will ever be able to tell the difference between getting shot with a premium rifle or with an econo-gun.


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[vmathias]

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No game animal I know of will ever be able to tell the difference between getting shot with a premium rifle or with an econo-gun.


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You are correct. :-)

[vmathias]

I have often wondered if it would serve me better to buy higher end used or brand new bargin. If Stocks and barrel nuts are the biggest cost savings and they still shoot just as accurate I will go with the bargin rifles. Was never a huge fan of used guns unless I know who previously owned them.

[JSnover]

There are plenty of affordable, accurate rifles to be had, you may spend as much or as little as you want. Mine cost anywhere from $150 - $2000. Most were bought used and all but one (bought new) shoot pretty well.

[shoot-n-lead]

OP, if you overlook used guns, you are passing up "bargins" as you say.

As to your question, I have not owned one of the price point models, but I have ready many owner reviews that were very positive. I have looked at them, with my general impression being that outwardly they seemed to be solid guns and at a very affordable price. I have found things about them that I did not like (RAR magazine rattles on half of the rifles that I have handle), but they same could be said for the higher end rifles.

I bought a rifle that you did not mention, but I feel is also a price point gun, Weatherby Vanguard Compact, and I am thrilled with it for the $435 out the door, that it cost.

[vmathias]

OP, if you overlook used guns, you are passing up "bargins" as you say.

As to your question, I have not owned one of the price point models, but I have ready many owner reviews that were very positive. I have looked at them, with my general impression being that outwardly they seemed to be solid guns and at a very affordable price. I have found things about them that I did not like (RAR magazine rattles on half of the rifles that I have handle), but they same could be said for the higher end rifles.

I bought a rifle that you did not mention, but I feel is also a price point gun, Weatherby Vanguard Compact, and I am thrilled with it for the $435 out the door, that it cost.

The Japanese made Vanguards are excellent rifles. I owned a Howa (basically a vanguard) that I sold to my brother. Excellent quality in their price. I would say for the price or more its hard the beat the Vanguards or Howa's.

[wv109323]

I am old school. I think that a person that would buy one of the bargain rifles would marry an ugly woman. I just think a rifle ought to be pretty and walnut with polished blue metal is my norm.
The bargain rifles are market and manufacturing driven. The younger generation are now accustomed to synthetic stocks and matte finished metal. The AR-15 is now 52 years old and that is all the youngens know. To sell to the masses the bargain rifle is at a price point that can be afforded by the majority of the market. Also the rifle is manufactured to take costs out of the product. That being said the bargain rifles are accurate and all that most new hunters will ever need. Also the rifles are non-glare and meant to be hunted with. So what if you put a scratch on it.
A Remington 700 BDL is now around $800. Walnut stocks are almost a thing of the past.
I think you will see the bargain rifles replace models of yesteryear totally. Shooters and competitors that need a rifle system for hard and continual use will go to a custom action and a smithed rifle.

[hpdrifter]

I am old school. I think that a person that would buy one of the bargain rifles would marry an ugly woman. I just think a rifle ought to be pretty and walnut with polished blue metal is my norm.

I used to think the same way....until old age set in. I do like walnut and blued steel; but then you hang an ugly A.. scope on it. Might as well be plastic.

I wished my eyes were still good enough...I saw an older Remington 721 at a gun show this past weekend and it was wearing a receiver site; a Redfield. It looked marvelous, but my eyes would not do it justice and the dealer was a bit stubborn, so I can only reminesce..

I'll keep my old Winchester 30-30 soon to be 38-55(getting rebored at JES) and keep my shots under 100. It's blued steel and walnut.

[FLHTC]

I personally think the price point firearms are as good as the ones with mirror polishing and quality bluing, stocked in walnut. I feel the finishing process adds considerable cost to a gun, where bead blasting is quick and quite forgiving.
Its good to hear about those guns being good performers since I'm about to spring for one myself.

[altheating]

I will buy a used rifle before buying one of those "price point" rifles. I have not seen one of them that I would bring home. People I know build some of them refer to them as junk, people I know who repair them call them junk. They actually call them much worse, but can't post that here. I'm glad most of them shoot well, but they ain't for me. I think you get much more for your buck by buying good ol used rifles. IMHO

[koehlerrk]

There's a difference between "inexpensive" and "cheap".... an inexpensive rifle should shoot well enough to suit 95% of all shooters out there, and while it works, don't expect it to last for generations. A cheap rifle won't be able to hold a group and won't outlast the original owner.

[shoot-n-lead]

There's a difference between "inexpensive" and "cheap".... an inexpensive rifle should shoot well enough to suit 95% of all shooters out there, and while it works, don't expect it to last for generations. A cheap rifle won't be able to hold a group and won't outlast the original owner.

How would you know this?

There are plenty of "cheap" Savage rifles around that are 40yrs old and they still shoot as well as when they were new.

The "cheap" comes from fit and finish...not from quality of the metal used.

Buy the price point rifles with the expectancy that they will last a lifetime and you will not be disappointed.

[762 shooter]

Future thread.

Date 2025.

I remember when quality rifles were made out of excellent materials.

The barrels were solid steel, not an insert wrapped by carbon fiber.

The stocks were handcrafted on CNC and molded, not pressed out of waterproof cardboard.

The trigger groups were made from steel and springs, not an electronic release.

Scopes were made of glass and aluminum, not little tiny television monitors.

Price points at under $500, instead of the ridiculous prices charged now.

Where have all the quality firearms gone like the ones made in the mid 20 teens.

Ahh for the good old days.

762

[WarEagleEd]

I can't remember which month, but within the last year the American Rifleman had an article on these bargain rifles (Savage Axis, Ruger American, and either the Marlin or Mossberg). The accuracy "out of the box" was good enough for hunting, though not benchrest shooting. If I can find the article I'll let you know which issue it was in.

[Screwbolts]

I think any rifle that one can afford, that allows them trigger time is a good rifle. :-)

I to have preferences, and that is for old steel and wood. My last several bargin rifles were all made around or well before the middle of the last century. Many people fail to consider used rifles as a source of constant enjoyment. I think part of this comes from todays throw away teachings and schooling.

The first place I go when touring LGSs is the used racks.

Ken

[FLHTC]

Future thread.

Date 2025.

I remember when quality rifles were made out of excellent materials.

The barrels were solid steel, not an insert wrapped by carbon fiber.

The stocks were handcrafted on CNC and molded, not pressed out of waterproof cardboard.

The trigger groups were made from steel and springs, not an electronic release.

Scopes were made of glass and aluminum, not little tiny television monitors.

Price points at under $500, instead of the ridiculous prices charged now.

Where have all the quality firearms gone like the ones made in the mid 20 teens.

Ahh for the good old days.

762

i don't know which firearms you are referring to that has pressed cardboard for stock, TV monitors, electronic releases and carbon fiber barrels with metallic inserts so feel free to point those out. The Ruger American, which is the one I'm ordering is great with the fit and plane Jane with the finish. However pretty rifles are and were, looks don't make them do what they are designed to do. I don't worry about looks as much as I look at accuracy and function.
Those who make the rifles we shoot still have to drive the $40,000 pick-up, pay at the pump like we do and buy the food that we eat. The employee is the most expensive commodity since they never produce the same amount of work from day to day. That has changed the consumer product more than anything in history.

[Rustyleee]

As I mentioned in another post I just purchased a new Ruger 77 Hawkeye. As I get older I would rather have a nice piece of wood than less expensive plastic.

[Rick Hodges]

I own two "old" price point rifles...left handed 788 Remington's, a 308 and a 6mm Rem. I have restocked them over the years. They have lasted well over 40 years and have performed very well. Neither are for sale. I would bet some of the new ones will perform just as well.

[762 shooter]

i don't know which firearms you are referring to that has pressed cardboard for stock, TV monitors, electronic releases and carbon fiber barrels with metallic inserts so feel free to point those out. The Ruger American, which is the one I'm ordering is great with the fit and plane Jane with the finish. However pretty rifles are and were, looks don't make them do what they are designed to do. I don't worry about looks as much as I look at accuracy and function.
Those who make the rifles we shoot still have to drive the $40,000 pick-up, pay at the pump like we do and buy the food that we eat. The employee is the most expensive commodity since they never produce the same amount of work from day to day. That has changed the consumer product more than anything in history.

An attempt at wit through a thread written in the future. I think we are in Golden Age of reasonably priced, accurate rifles.

762

[owejia]

That is what makes this country so great, all the different choices we have. Buy what you want,enjoy and use it.

[vmathias]

As I mentioned in another post I just purchased a new Ruger 77 Hawkeye. As I get older I would rather have a nice piece of wood than less expensive plastic.

This can easily be fixed by buying a price point rifle and then throwing on a Boyds stock.

[pietro]

i don't know which firearms you are referring to that has pressed cardboard for stock, TV monitors, electronic releases and carbon fiber barrels with metallic inserts so feel free to point those out. The Ruger American, which is the one I'm ordering is great with the fit and plane Jane with the finish. However pretty rifles are and were, looks don't make them do what they are designed to do. I don't worry about looks as much as I look at accuracy and function.
Those who make the rifles we shoot still have to drive the $40,000 pick-up, pay at the pump like we do and buy the food that we eat. The employee is the most expensive commodity since they never produce the same amount of work from day to day. That has changed the consumer product more than anything in history.

Welcome to the future............................. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/17000-linux-powered-rifle-brings-auto-aim-to-the-real-world/

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/338T-leftside-quarterfront-640x241.jpg

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/tp-throughscope.png





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[FLHTC]

Maybe yours but not mine

[Uncle Grinch]

Gee, I guess I'm too old fashioned (read old) as these new bargin rifles are not for me. I'm sure plenty of people buy them and shoot them, even accurately for the most part. But, there is just something about them that doesn't set with me. I'll keep my opinions about them to myself.

My idea of a bargin rifle is often found at the pawn shop or gun show and usually is an older rifle or even a sporterized Mauser

[largom]

Gee, I guess I'm too old fashioned (read old) as these new bargin rifles are not for me. I'm sure plenty of people buy them and shoot them, even accurately for the most part. But, there is just something about them that doesn't set with me. I'll keep my opinions about them to myself.

My idea of a bargin rifle is often found at the pawn shop or gun show and usually is an older rifle or even a sporterized Mauser

Like Mike, I don't relate to these newer guns. I like old steel and real wood. If I want it to be pretty then I can do that myself. Means more that way.

Larry

[Pinsnscrews]

I buy the price point guns so if I break something trying to learn gun smithing on them, it won't break the bank to fix it. Right now, I am working on stockmaking. i will be using a brand new Ruger American Predator in .308.

my Axis that was in .308 taught me how to polish and stone a trigger. Then it taught me how to turn a tupperware stock into something nice and rigid, and what it takes to bed an action. I sold it for a Savage 111, which cost me 3x what I paid for the Axis, and couldn't shoot to save it's life. Bad barrel from the factory.

So I sold the 111 and used the money for the Ruger and a good plank of walnut, some carving tools and a new bedding kit...

[Maineboy]

I've bought plenty of guns over the last 45 years but only 2, a Marlin 1895 and a Ruger American Rimfire were bought new. My next purchase will probably be an all weather rifle in 308 or 30-06 and if I can't find a good used one, it will probably be a "bargain" model.

[dragon813gt]

As I mentioned in another post I just purchased a new Ruger 77 Hawkeye. As I get older I would rather have a nice piece of wood than less expensive plastic.

That's funny. My Hawkeye is matte stainless w/ a synthetic stock. And I bought it that way intentionally. It's my bad weather rifle and sees heavy use. Little less worry about it compared to a blued and wood stocked rifle.

I'm on the younger side. Don't lump all of us into the plastic gun crowd. There are plenty of us that appreciate blued steel and a fine piece of wood. Any firearm that gets someone shooting is a good one.

[Love Life]

I think it is good that these rifles are hitting the market. They allow people to get a gun, shoot, and possibly hunt for a pretty low price.

As for synthetics, I have some fiberglass stocks that are fantastic. The synthetic on the bargain guns are the cheapest the company can get away with.

Same for the Remington 700. I buy the Rem 700 at Walmart after hunting season when they are $349.00, just so I can tear it apart foe the action.

To the OP- I know a few people who are happy with what they purchased.

[vmathias]

I have been reading that the Marlin XL7 is a very good rifle for its price. Accuracy is excellent and quality is very good. Throw on a Boyds stock for an extra hundred and ya have a pretty nice rifle. Thinking of throwing the Hunter green laminate on my Ruger American. I will take the advice here and start looking at the higher quality used racks. Not a big fan of buying used guns though. You dont know if the gun had 10 or 10,000 rounds put through it.

[hpdrifter]

You dont know if the gun had 10 or 10,000 rounds put through it.

If you can't tell..........................

[vmathias]

If you can't tell..........................

Haha, You have a point there...:-)

[kfarm]

Now days when I go into a gun shop I only look at the used rack. I'm not a fan of plastic stocks, that said my hunting rifles are in some sort of weather proof stocks. But as you know the gun writers only write and recommend high dollar rifles. Buy what you can afford and shoot it.

[Three44s]

Hmm,

I like my wood and blued steel guns so much ......... that I also buy a bargain rifle or two now and then to drag all over the ranch for day to day chores.

Those nice rifles stay nice longer ....... and the messy business of growing the nation's food gets done.

As far as the Ruger American goes, I have a compact in .223 ........ it's a great little hole puncher ......... my current favorite work rifle.

I also have a Marlin XL7 in .25-06 ........ drilled a coyote directly facing me at 435 yds last spring. I could not catch him broadside to save my soul ......... gave him the business anyway. The Marlins can shoot ........ trust me!

I kind of remember the Remington 788 as the red headed step child of it's day ........

........... NOW, it's a classic ...... go figure!

I have a .22-250 in that with a barrel that finnaly went south ....... it wears a Canjar single set trigger and was drug all over our ranch for about a dozen years and took coyotes a plenty until it wore out.

I gotta get that one rebarreled someday!

Three 44s

[Echd]

I don't have any interest in a Marlin XL7, Ruger American, Axis, or whatever, but besides a few absolutely terrible entries (like the plastic receiver'd 710...) I'd imagine these guns shoot better than the vast majority of shooters under anything other than perfect bench conditions, and I would emphatically state that they surpass the common man's rifle of 40 years ago in everything other than artistic merit.

New(er) ideas like barrel nuts on Savages and Remages make rebarreling a cinch, and cheap and easy, with no negatives towards accuracy...

Plastic stocks with aluminum inserts remove the need to bed many newer stocks, such as on the Savage accustock...

Every manufacturer has come out with their own adjustable trigger mech since the accutrigger turned the market on its head. I've heard plenty of people lament the commercial rifles pre-accutrigger, as being inferior to the rifles of yesteryear, but nowadays most manufacturer's triggers will beat any bone stock trigger on a 1950s-70s vintage gun (not counting tuned or replaced mechanisms of course)

Personally I see Savage as being the driving force for this shift in the industry, and I can't complain. I don't buy the lower end models of anything if I can help it, but there's no doubt that they seized on economy minded features, and turned them into performance enhancers, and made a lot of money as a result.

About the only "ugly" I see on these price point guns are ugly, ugly plastic stocks. And even then, those rigid, ugly, weather-insensitive, ugly, wear resistant, ugly stocks are more functional than a wood stock.

The beautiful and old-school rifles are still out there, and adjusted for inflation more affordable than ever. I'm probably a good deal younger than most of the crowd here and I put a lot of lead through synthetic stocked and scoped "tactical" rifles but I don't understand why the existence of these bargain guns is something to be derided or disliked. Their existence does not damage the rifles you like, and they can only serve to get more guns into the hands of new shooters, the less wealthy, and so on. We should be glad they exist, and after shooters are familiar with them we should encourage them to move "up" or even just work to upgrade what they have.

My favorite rifles are ARs and leverguns, but my knockaround gun is one of the first centerfires my dad bought me as a kid... a little single shot short barreled .243 braztech (pretty much a rossi). The thing is worth $150 on a good day, but it still shoots lights out.

[RogerDat]

Pretty gun or pretty woman the only real question that matters is can she cook and balance a checkbook? Ugly is only skin deep but can't cook or manage money there is just no point in even going on a first date.

There will always be a place for glamour, but solid, functional and no glaring defects that is willing to go out with me has some real advantages. While I love the look and feel of a well made object that was made with an eye toward beauty as well as function I am more than happy with finding something where function was primary that I can afford. Look at used for a cool looking bargain but why not also look at new that was built to be a bargain?

Reminded of a story told about Daniel Boone and his rifle, it was a rifle manufacturer known to make especially fine guns and he was once asked did he invest so much in his rifle because his life depended on it to which he replied no he got it cheap from some fellow who brought it out from the east and found he could not hit any game with it. When asked was this rifle bad then? Daniel said no, once I pried all the pretty silver fancy metal off so it quite flashing and scaring the game the rifle worked fine.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I bought a Ruger American Compact in 223 and it shoots 1/2 -3/4" groups with factory ammo. I mounted a Leupold VX3 2.5-8 scope and all up it was about $50 dearer than a bare M77. I am very happy with it.

[starmac]

I have all I need for any and all practical purposes, sooo the only ones I buy are used, and only then if they are absolute bargains.
I did buy one of the cheap 770 remingtons to get the scope off of and gave the rifle to a kid that needed something to hunt with. I suspect since ruger and marlin basically copied savage that they are good functional rifles, there was absolutely nothing good to say about the remington other than it will take game.
I actually feel bad for giving the kid that one. Bad enough that if he hasn't upgraded by next christmas, he will probably find something better under the tree.

[starmac]

I forgot, I did buy one of the marlins in 30/06. I haven't shot it but it was pretty nice with a slick action. The reason I bought it was, it must have had a youth stock on it and it fit my daughter well, she loves it.

[tdoyka]

i had a tc venture in 25-06. i got the dies and brass and everything else i needed. i sent it back to the factory 3x because it wasn't striking the primers. they got it right and i took her home. i don't remember the powder but i shot it with 115gr ballistic tips. the best load was about 1/2" at 100 yards.
i sold it and got my money and then i replaced it with a new MGM heavy factory barrel in 22-250ai. i can't find anything bad about the venture, but the stock made it look really, really flimsy and cheap. it must be me, 'cause those synthetics look real cheap to me.
anyway, not a real bad gun(tc venture). its worth it to the average guy who shots a couple of times a year before deer season and puts it away.
for me, its got to be a MGM barrel(got 4 of them) or wood stocked pre-1950's for me. my oldest boy bought me a christmas gift, handi-rifle in 45-70 with a synthetic stock, so i will keep this one!!!

[lefty o]

i personally wont touch one of the elcheapo specials they are selling now days, but someone must ( the american consumer is driven by cheap, not quality). about the only cost cutting rifle ive ever thought worth anything was the 788rem. quite honestly buying an american made rifle nowdays is like rolling the dice, because quality control has dropped badly on most of em.

[oldblinddog]

I kind of remember the Remington 788 as the red headed step child of it's day ........

........... NOW, it's a classic ...... go figure!



Yeah, and the ones chambered to .30-30 were prized cast boolit shooters...if you could find one, that is.

I have four "plastic" stocked Remington 700's (3 .308's and a .30-06) which are equal in quality and accuracy to any of the wood stocked 700's I ever had. They all shoot into less than 1/2" or less right out of the box.

The only other thing I have to add is that I never criticize another man's choice...

[starmac]

For what it is worth, I didn't buy any of my rifles to enter in any fashion shows. lol Most folks buy a rifle to hunt with, and I suspect any of them will do for the most part. I don't really care for plastic stocks, but have to admit they do have some perks in the real world. From what I hear, the newer cheap savages, marlins, and rugers on average rival the best of the older factory guns in accuracy. Infact the ruger has a better reputation as far as accuracy than the classier, more expensive rugers.

I do not own any of the newer econo guns, but do have some savage 340s and model 23 that were the econo models of yesteryear.

[country gent]

On used rifles there are several things you can do to "reduce risk or surprises" when purchasing. A decent bore scope helps alot to see what the bore throat condition is. ( throat also can give an idea of rounds fired) Most Gunshops doing gunsmithing and selling used rifles have some form of bore scope available to them and if ask will check this for you or better still help you to see what is isnt there. A look at the breech face under magnification can tell alot also. A look at the locking lugs under magnification can tell a story as well. I have a 17" hawkeye bore scope bought when they first came out I use ( Im not above taking it and a cradle into a shop to check a rifle before purchasing). Lyman list a bore scope in thier catalog web site now too. Talk to the salesman and ask questions if possible they normally have an idea of what is in stock and condition. Most centerfire rifles have seen little use unless its a competitor or shooter. My M1As are both on thier 4th barrels now. Still going strong otherwise. I perfer walnut and polished metal but also have ARs and tubbs or mcmillen synthetic stocks on my match rifles, not plastic but top of the line fiberglass reinforced and filled. A good mcmillen stock cost more than most standard grade walnut stocks. One big plus to synthetics is humidity moisture dosnt affect them. My M1As wear bishop stocks walnut finished with many coats of true oil inside and out along with bedding. Use common snese and your eyes will sort out alot of issues before purchasing.

[Bigslug]

Hmmm. . . I think we've sunk even farther than many know. Consider the following:

Action turned from a steel pipe.
Trigger made of stamped sheet metal.
Floorplate made of cast aluminum.
Bolt made of three pieces pressed and brazed together.

This cheapazz answer to mass marketing is commonly known as "The Remington 700", and after 50 years in the marketplace, it is evidently not cheapazz enough. Indeed, it seems to have gained the reputation and price point of a paragon of hand-crafted artistry

There are some real advantages to having guns made by robots - cost and accuracy potential being high among them, but what puzzles me is that these robots should be even better at making an attractive, confidence-inspiring firearm than any human laborer for a fraction of the price. Yes, I get that there is a bottom line, but does it have to be submerged to the level of catfish and crawdads?

[Steve77]

A good friend of mine is a salesman at a local gun store, he gets to see all the new guns. He also deals with warranties and repairs. He said the Ruger American is a good gun and he intends to buy one for his wife. The other entry level guns he doesn't speak as highly of.

I rarely buy new guns. I buy and sell fairly often, I can't afford to keep every gun I buy. I test drive my guns for however long it takes to decide if it shoots and handles like I need it to for the purpose I bought it, if it doesn't meet my expectations, I sell it for what I paid.. So for me buying used means I don't lose money when I resell. I buy midpriced stuff mostly. The only plastic stock I have ever had(excluding ARs) is on a black friday TC muzzleloader my wife bought me as a gift. I hunt all weather with my guns, I keep them oiled and clean and don't worry about keeping them pretty, just proper working order. The lowest price point rifle I have owned is a Savage 110. I might buy a Ruger American if I found a good price on a used one.

[35 shooter]

Anyone tried the winchester xpr bolt rifles? I noticed it has a 3 lug bolt and 60* bolt lift like the browning bbr.
I liked the looks of the stock on them a bit better than some of the others mentioned here except for the marlin x7's.

[Lloyd Smale]

haven't bought an American yet but would consider one. I have bought sav axis and Mossberg atrs for the grandkids. 2 of each. Ive worked up loads for all 4 (all are 243s). Each and every one of them were easy to find a moa load for. Funny thing is im a bit of a snob and wouldn't be happy myself with them but those 4 rifles all were easier to find good loads for then some of my guns that cost 3 and 4 times as much. Id bet there still around and are passed down to my grandchildren's children someday too. Just had the granddaughters atr done in muddy girl camo at a local shop that does that water dipping. Now they all want there guns done. It really dressed up the gun and it was an excuse to make another birthday a gun deal. I guess youll probably still never see me in the field with an atr but id have to think that no deer is going to know where a Mossberg lanched that bullet or a weatherby.

[Love Life]

I have been eyeballing the Ruger as a beater/truck gun. The synthetic stocks on these guns are made to meet a price point. Not all synthetic stocks are created equal. You can spend as much on a Mcmillan or Manners as you would on a full gun with a wood stock.

[nagantguy]

My hunting/shooting partner best friend wanted a 243 he looked at the new savage Stevens line, he likes.the 243 and the youth .223 for yote hunting he bought both for under $500, put decent glass on em, they both shoot well enough to take game at typical MI distances, deer and yotes booth have fallen to the "cheap" pair, plastic stock dull finish and they came with no name scopes but if a fellow wanted a varmit and big game rifle, and needed both on a budget..well, buddies neighbor liked the savages so much and really liked the price so he bought one of the Stevens in 300 win mag for $275. And it shoots real good. I think there is a place for a "cheap" rifle that works to bounce around in a truck bed on a boat or tractor or as a barn gun or even as a lender or bad weather rifle or even a backup.

[Uncle Grinch]

This thread got me to thinking..... Would the Weatherby Vanguard be considered on of the "bargain" rifles?

[Ben]

Would the Weatherby Vanguard be considered one of the "bargain" rifles?

Not in my opinion.

I think the Howa \ Weatherby Vanguard rifle is very much a step above the " economy rifle " concept.

Some call them " A Japanese Sako ".

[dragon813gt]

This thread got me to thinking..... Would the Weatherby Vanguard be considered on of the "bargain" rifles?

The Vanguard is the entry level model of their lineup. Same thing w/ automakers. Just because BMW makes a 1 Series does mean it's a bargain model.

[Steve77]

Palmetto State Armory has the Marlin X7 .308 for $249
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/19068/s/marlin-x7-308win-70386/
If links are not allowed mods feel free to remove.

[JeffinNZ]

The traditionalist in me believes in buying quality to last a life time so I see where folk are coming from. That said, just because it is cheap doesn't mean it won't last.

Presently I am considering a Ruger Compact or Savage Axis Youth for my 10 year old. I don't want to spend a fortunate just in case she loses interest and I end up with a rifle too small for me and surplus to requirements. At least if the investment is minimal should she give up shooting the financial pain is less.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The thing I like about the American over the Axis is the mag. The retaining clip is plastic and hinges on a pin with a spring rather than being a bent piece of plastic. The Ruger one could be fixed by a handyman with a file, a piece of aluminium or steel and a bit of patience. Just the same, I'll be buying a few spare mags.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think at one time yes. When weatherby went from the vanguard to the vanguard 2 you could pick the originals up for as low a 300 bucks and they were a steal at that. Now you looking at 500 bucks which puts then and most savages (that used to also be considered entry level) into more of a mid level gun with the sps remingtons
This thread got me to thinking..... Would the Weatherby Vanguard be considered on of the "bargain" rifles?

[1Shirt]

Supply and demand and competition between different Mfg., along with slick marketing, has produced the $3-400.00 dollar rifles that shoot well.
1Shirt!

[Huffmanite]

This thread got me to thinking..... Would the Weatherby Vanguard be considered on of the "bargain" rifles?
FWIW, the Vanguard is made for Weatherby by Howa (in Japan). Howa 1500s are basically the same rifle with a different stock and they did cost less than the Vanguard. Not sure if this is true today about the cost. Do know, about a year ago went into a pawnshop and found a Howa 1500 and Vanguard, both in 243 Win. Examined both used rifles, thought the Howa was in a little better condition and about a $100 less in price. Bought the Howa when manager accepted my offer for it. Chuckle, just before leaving the pawnshop, told the manager that Howa made the Vanguard and that I had made a very good buy, good luck selling the Vanguard. Was in store last week, they still had the Vanguard.

Anyway, have seven of the so called entry level rifles, (4) Marlin X, (1)Axis, (2)Stevens 200s. Some were bought just for the actions to build on. I've listed them in order of accuracy out of the box for me. None of them lacked accuracy, matter of fact, most shot pretty darn good for their price. Agree with many comments made about the plastic stocks. So, had fun making replacement wood stocks for all of them more suitable for shooting from benchrest.

Presently have no intention of buy a Ruger American, but I might one day. As to the entry level Remington's 783, I have no interest in trying one. Decision to cease production of the Marlin X rifles at Mayfield, Ky plant where Remington 770 and 783 rifles are also produced has irritated me.

[Uncle Grinch]

I have always liked the Howa actions and actually bought one many years ago in 6.5x55 for my great nephew. He still uses it and and would not trade it for anything.

[Uncle Grinch]

Just ran across this deal.

http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-m70-7mm-mag-bolt-action-mauser-style-rifle,-24=-barrel,-cai-yugo-import.-new.-p-81916.html

While not exactly as cheap as the bargain rifles, I'd much rather pony up for this commercial Mauser rifle.

[vmathias]

I have always liked the Howa actions and actually bought one many years ago in 6.5x55 for my great nephew. He still uses it and and would not trade it for anything.

I sold a Howa 243 to my Brother to Purchase the Ruger American in 243 due to weight. The Howa is a VERY well built rifle for the price. However I am also very impressed with the Ruger quality and accuracy for the price. The Ruger shoots cast 243 VERY accurate.

[vmathias]

Just ran across this deal.

http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-m70-7mm-mag-bolt-action-mauser-style-rifle,-24=-barrel,-cai-yugo-import.-new.-p-81916.html

While not exactly as cheap as the bargain rifles, I'd much rather pony up for this commercial Mauser rifle.

That is not a bad price at all. Will def look into these rifles.

[Huffmanite]

Well, if you lived in the south and have an Academny Sports and Outdoors store in your area, you might want to check if they have any of those Zavasta M70 rifles left to sell.....were on clearance. Shooting buddy and I drove up to a town north of Houston, tx., last week and each of us bought the last two they had. They were M70 308s and price was $350 plus tax. Academny originally sold them for around $460. Charles Daley used to sell this Zavasta rifle or one similar to it, years ago. Remington had it for a year or two as the 798. It was my buddy's third or fourth one to buy at the clearance price. He wanted them mostly for their actions to build on. Also with a little tweeking, the adjustable trigger on it can go under 16 ozs pull. Me, I've just reduced mine down to around 2 lbs.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Zastava is a quality, old world Mauser rifle at a budget price. I have four of them and looked at a mini Zastava in 223 when I saw the American in 223. I liked the shortness of the Ruger American Compact, so I went with it.

[vmathias]

The Zastava is a quality, old world Mauser rifle at a budget price. I have four of them and looked at a mini Zastava in 223 when I saw the American in 223. I liked the shortness of the Ruger American Compact, so I went with it.

I have never seen these rifles before until a few days ago. I have heard of Zastava but didnt know they built Bolt Actions. I am not a fan of pretty rifles. I do way to much "thicket" walking to use a rifle with a pretty wood stock. I have read that these Zastava's are a very nice rifle but not refined like some of the higher priced American wood stock Bolt actions. This is right up my alley as I use my rifles hard with the terrain I hunt. Will be looking into the 308 bolt action for those prices.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Zastavas are also available with wood stocks.

[vmathias]

The Zastavas are also available with wood stocks.

Yes, With reviews I have seen they say the wood stocks are not as pretty or finished as nicely as the slightly higher priced wood stocks.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The wooden stocked ones I have and tge ones I have seen are ok, but nothing to write home about. But at the price, no other rifle is available with wooden stocks.

[vmathias]

The wooden stocked ones I have and tge ones I have seen are ok, but nothing to write home about. But at the price, no other rifle is available with wooden stocks.

That is something one could fix in a days time with refinishing. The Mossberg patriot comes with a wood stock. They are pretty nice for under 400.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The two wooden stocked ones I have look pretty good after a lot of elbow grease and oil.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I just read all four pages of this post. As I was reading it, I thought back to a time too far in the past when I was married, both my children were under 4 years old and I was in the Army. I had made three stripe sergeant, but with the children, my money didn't go very far.

Back then, there were no real budget rifles like the Ruger American unless you bought a surplus rifle. Lots of them, but were usually heavy and not much fun to haul through the woods. I looked around and ended up with a Chinese made SKS for $150.00 just as they were coming into the country. Not very fancy, but I was thrilled when one of the major gun companies came out with soft point ammunition for it. Used it to take several deer in a swamp near my Father's home. I was a good shot and there were plenty of deer to be had in that little swamp if one could keep still like an Injun and I could.

That same Chinese SKS today runs around the price of these "bargain" hunting rifles. I would have been thrilled to be able to buy a Ruger American to hunt with instead. I think a young man with a family is the market these folks are aiming for and I think they're right to do so, especially with the way our current government is helping our economy go in the toilet.

So remember your poor young days of early marriage and think how nice one of these budget rifles would be to hunt with then. That's my .02 on these guns.

[Lloyd Smale]

heck of a deal!
Just ran across this deal.

http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-m70-7mm-mag-bolt-action-mauser-style-rifle,-24=-barrel,-cai-yugo-import.-new.-p-81916.html

While not exactly as cheap as the bargain rifles, I'd much rather pony up for this commercial Mauser rifle.

[vmathias]

The two wooden stocked ones I have look pretty good after a lot of elbow grease and oil.

I would love to see some pics of those. ;-)

[Three44s]

Just as someone who can't afford a nicer or more beautiful rifle ........... does not have to "do without" .......... they have a diverse field of economical ones to chose from ..........

....... a prospective buyer of a nice rifle has no one holding a club to their head forcing them to buy the less expensive models.

That's choice ......... and I like it! I have somewhat nicer guns ....... and guns I am not afraid to drag around where and when I need one ......... my Compact fits that bill very nicely!

Three 44s

[TXGunNut]

I think a young man with a family is the market these folks are aiming for and I think they're right to do so, especially with the way our current government is helping our economy go in the toilet.-DaveInFloweryBranchGA

Very good point, also excellent for new shooters. I've read good reports on some of these rifles and I'm impressed that a rifle that performs this well can be built and sold at this price point. Just because they don't appeal to me doesn't mean they're not good rifles.

[vmathias]

I think a young man with a family is the market these folks are aiming for and I think they're right to do so, especially with the way our current government is helping our economy go in the toilet.-DaveInFloweryBranchGA

Very good point, also excellent for new shooters. I've read good reports on some of these rifles and I'm impressed that a rifle that performs this well can be built and sold at this price point. Just because they don't appeal to me doesn't mean they're not good rifles.

I think a BIG part of these rifles savings are in the time it takes to build them. Not inferior parts. My Ruger American is plain jane but built like a brick SH--house. The action and bolt are VERY strong and smooth to boot. With a plastic stock and Barrel that is I believe Parkerized but not blued saves on manufacture time which as we know is where the money adds up. For the price I love the American. Add a Boyds stock and you have a nice looking rifle.

[.30-06 fan]

Boyds is making finished stocks for a lot of these value rifles, a nice up grade.

[vmathias]

Boyds is making finished stocks for a lot of these value rifles, a nice up grade.

Yes and they a very nicely priced as well. $113.00 for a standard laminate.

[Three44s]

Boyds is making finished stocks for a lot of these value rifles, a nice up grade.

Yes! And one can use the plastic stock if need be and at a time when one choses to upgrade ....... there is a good option for a nicer stock.

Three44s

[monge]

This is my savage axis bought it for my 50th b-day . My son and I did the trigger breaks clean at 3and half #s, boyds stock leupold vx-1 3-9-40 I made the bolt handle. With the savage rebate the whole gun cost me less than $600 bucks and shoots better than I can.
132531

[vmathias]

This is my savage axis bought it for my 50th b-day . My son and I did the trigger breaks clean at 3and half #s, boyds stock leupold vx-1 3-9-40 I made the bolt handle. With the savage rebate the whole gun cost me less than $600 bucks and shoots better than I can.
132531

That is one sweet looking stock! Very nice rifle.

[35 shooter]

I have never seen these rifles before until a few days ago. I have heard of Zastava but didnt know they built Bolt Actions. I am not a fan of pretty rifles. I do way to much "thicket" walking to use a rifle with a pretty wood stock. I have read that these Zastava's are a very nice rifle but not refined like some of the higher priced American wood stock Bolt actions. This is right up my alley as I use my rifles hard with the terrain I hunt. Will be looking into the 308 bolt action for those prices.
I don't know who else sells Zastava's, but to get the 350.00 dollar deal on them at Academy Sports, you may have to look into it soon.
I called them today and they said it was indeed a clearance price and only had a .243 in stock locally and i wanted one in .308. The salesman also told me they couldn't ship one from another store because it was a close out item. He finally put me in touch with management and after a bit of checking they told me they could get one shipped if any were left. Long story short they found 2 in South Carolina and arranged to have one shipped(at no charge) to me at the local store.
Should be here in a few days. It was too good a deal to pass on!

vmathias thanks for the thread....you've turned out to be quite the ENABLER lol!!![smilie=l:

[JeffinNZ]

I looked at a Zastava M85 in .223 the other day on behalf of No. 1 daughter. The wooden stock is a bit agricultural but other than that it was a sweet rifle. All reports I have read suggest they shoot very well.

In contrast the Ruger Compact and Savage Axis rifles I saw left me cold. The stocks are way too flimsy for my liking.

[vmathias]

I don't know who else sells Zastava's, but to get the 350.00 dollar deal on them at Academy Sports, you may have to look into it soon.
I called them today and they said it was indeed a clearance price and only had a .243 in stock locally and i wanted one in .308. The salesman also told me they couldn't ship one from another store because it was a close out item. He finally put me in touch with management and after a bit of checking they told me they could get one shipped if any were left. Long story short they found 2 in South Carolina and arranged to have one shipped(at no charge) to me at the local store.
Should be here in a few days. It was too good a deal to pass on!

vmathias thanks for the thread....you've turned out to be quite the ENABLER lol!!![smilie=l:

Haha, You'll be glad you bought it. I am getting ready to Pee my wife off here very soon. :-)

[35 shooter]

Haha, You'll be glad you bought it. I am getting ready to Pee my wife off here very soon. :-)
I'm already considering ordering another one and send it straight to JES for a rebore to .358 win.:) That was the original idea with the first one,but if it shoots as good as i believe it will, it'll probably stay a .308.

[Dan Cash]

Just ran across this deal.

http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-m70-7mm-mag-bolt-action-mauser-style-rifle,-24=-barrel,-cai-yugo-import.-new.-p-81916.html

While not exactly as cheap as the bargain rifles, I'd much rather pony up for this commercial Mauser rifle.

This is a real deal; most attractive and a real Mauser.

[vmathias]

This is a real deal; most attractive and a real Mauser.

Cannot wait to check out these rifles.

[wmitty]

I think back to the 788 in .22-250 I paid $69.95 for back in '69 and I'm sure there were a few grins and sneers by those who could afford a M70 or 700 back then. I do not care for the rifles under discussion here, but I sure understand why someone might want one. I found a FN M 98 in the used gun rack a couple months back for $275 and jumped on it; while I'm sure my sons would have looked at it as an " old dudes rifle". To each his own.

[Huffmanite]

About the Zavasta M70 wood stock. Have refinished two of them recently. Factory finish hide some nice grain/color in the two I refinished. As the Zavasta stock seems to be just soaked in some kinda oil and if you try to sand the wood, sandpaper will clog quickly. So, just scrape down the wood working with the grain and then wipe down the wood with some kind of paint thinner, mineral spirits or even some brand of antique finish restorer. After that you can sand decently if needed. Both stocks I redid had minor low/high spots in the wood that sanded out easily, just took time. To me, cheek comb is too high and handle of my cleaning rod hits it. So, lowered it a bit. After my sanding, worked with the grain of wood using a fine steel wool. Would have preferred to have used a scotchbrite pad, but didn't have one. Applied four coats of Satin Minwax's Wiping Poly(urethane) finish.

[vmathias]

About the Zavasta M70 wood stock. Have refinished two of them recently. Factory finish hide some nice grain/color in the two I refinished. As the Zavasta stock seems to be just soaked in some kinda oil and if you try to sand the wood, sandpaper will clog quickly. So, just scrape down the wood working with the grain and then wipe down the wood with some kind of paint thinner, mineral spirits or even some brand of antique finish restorer. After that you can sand decently if needed. Both stocks I redid had minor low/high spots in the wood that sanded out easily, just took time. To me, cheek comb is too high and handle of my cleaning rod hits it. So, lowered it a bit. After my sanding, worked with the grain of wood using a fine steel wool. Would have preferred to have used a scotchbrite pad, but didn't have one. Applied four coats of Satin Minwax's Wiping Poly(urethane) finish.

Well lets see a pic of that bad boy! :-)

[oldblinddog]

Remington 788 .30-30 on Gunbroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473774987

[Steve77]

Remington 788 .30-30 on Gunbroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473774987
That is a dandy!

[tdoyka]

Remington 788 .30-30 on Gunbroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473774987

that is a fine gun!!! i wish i could buy it. my money is looking for a 1903a3 or 1917 enfield.

[35 shooter]

Well tommorrow would have been 3 weeks since i ordered the Zastava .308. It finally came in today but will probably be next week before i go and pick it up as i'm on a pretty tight schedule this week. I'll post a pic of it when i do.
Think i'm going to like this one. I'm hoping it's a 1/12 twist like the cz's are in .308, but can't find the info on them for that...guess we'll see.

Got an old m8 6 power leupold ready to go on it, just need rings, bases, reloading dies, boolit moulds, and cases!

[Mgderf]

A few years ago I bought one of these "price-point" rifles on a whim.
A friend had won it at a FNRA banquet and said he had no use for it.
It is a Howa 1500 Sporter chambered in .204 Ruger, and I could not be more impressed.
It uses the Wetherby Vanguard action and is smooth as butter.

The one thing that really surprised me though was the report.
That little .20cal bullet is LOUD!

[35 shooter]

Finally got a chance to go pick up the m70 zastava from academy sports. In the meantime as of 3-31-15 they had gone on sale again. They dropped from 350.00 to 274.00 plus some change. Anyway with tax it was out the door at 294.00.
This one has the high comb stock (too high for the iron sights) which should be just right for scope use. Action is not rough at all, but not smooth and polished either. Should slick right up with use. Not bad at all for a new mauser in .308 for less than 300.00 total!!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Virtually for the cost of a decent barrel

[A pause for the COZ]

I sold myself on savages. I buy mine to shoot them and if I get a scratch on it.
Who cares,
Best part... With my Model 11 I have three guns.
I picked up the Rifle for $350 in 308win and two extra barrels for $200 one in .243 and one in 7mm-08. Tools and a old style barrel nut for $120 used.
So for $670 I have three different guns. All three configurations shoot inside 1 inch at 100 yards.

Next one is going to be a Savage Aixis 2 in 223 and a spare 300 Black out barrel.
But that one I will put a Boyds stock on it.

Cheap guns now days are quite different than cheap guns of old.
Expensive guns of old were made on old hand set machines and hand fit for function.
Cheap guns were made on hand set equipment. Test fit for function and stuck in the box.

New cheap guns are made in state of the art CNC Machining centers. Made to real tight tolerances with out all the extra human hand working and added costs.
The only time they have an issue is when they let the tooling get worn. Still happens but your luck of the draw odds have went up quite a bit from the old days.
I suspect now days there is not a whole lot of difference between a $700 gun and a $300 quality wise. Usually just a cheaper stock. Buy a new stock.

[oldblinddog]

Just won an Interarms Mark X on Gunbroker.com in 7mm Rem Mag and have a Douglas barrel in .338 Win Mag I'm going to install on it. My buddy has a project in mind for the 7 mag barrel.

looking at molds at Accurate for the .338.

Life is good...

[Four Fingers of Death]

I can't understand why the Zastava isn't available in 338WM.

[35 shooter]

Said i would post pic's of the new Zastava, finally got around to it...not great pic's but....137394137394

Sorry for the double pic's
The next pic is after i took the comb down a bit to utilize the iron sights
and also had to take some wood off in the safety area as it was binding on a high spot.137395

Last pic is to show the rollover part of the comb still intact on the off side.
Didn't have to take off too much to see the iron sights.
Now to sand the whole stock down and get a good finish on it.
The inletting is actually pretty good. Barrel channel needs a bit of rasping.
ALL things considered i really like this rifle so far and the bit of stock work
is fun and personalizes it to me!
Also a bit of wood removal will be needed if a receiver sight is used as the screw holes on the side of receiver are almost covered by the stock.137396

[Ben]

looking real good !

can't wait to see some targets shot with your new rifle.

Ben

[35 shooter]

Well stock work has come to a halt. After getting it all scraped and shaped and almost ready for a finish, i found a split in the inletting.
It's the bridge behind the mag well where it butts up and the front of the trigger guard.
Split is length wise from top to bottom except for the rear portion of the bottom.

Recoil lug should take the pressure off and is fit well in that area. Guess i could try to flex the stock and get some glue in there and clamp from the sides.
Would that be enough in that area, or new stock? I'm thinking new stock...just wish i had spotted it quicker.

You can tell from the pic (i hope) the inletting was tight on the right side and someone at the factory jammed the action in anyway.
137487

[CHeatermk3]

You might could install a small cross-bolt in this area?

It'd be a shame to lose the original wood especially if it's as nice as what came on my M85.

Get in touch with the importer and ask about a replacement stock--forlorn hope but it don't cost to try.

[waksupi]

Well stock work has come to a halt. After getting it all scraped and shaped and almost ready for a finish, i found a split in the inletting.
It's the bridge behind the mag well where it butts up and the front of the trigger guard.
Split is length wise from top to bottom except for the rear portion of the bottom.

Recoil lug should take the pressure off and is fit well in that area. Guess i could try to flex the stock and get some glue in there and clamp from the sides.
Would that be enough in that area, or new stock? I'm thinking new stock...just wish i had spotted it quicker.

You can tell from the pic (i hope) the inletting was tight on the right side and someone at the factory jammed the action in anyway.
137487

Put in a cross bolt, and some contrasting wood plugs to cover the end. Bed it well with epoxy or Acraglas.

[Mtnfolk75]

Kinda late to this thread ....... ;-)

But, several months ago I traded a Gen2 Glock 20 for a NIB Stainless/Synthetic Savage Axis in .223 Remington. All I can say is WOW ..... it shoots under 1" at 100 yards with Federal American Eagle 55 grain FMJ (the 30 round box on AR Strippers). I traded with intention of using it as my knock around on ATV's and am happy to say it fits that role perfectly. I have an older Leupold Vari-X II in 3x9 that I am thinking about putting on it. My only dismay with whole deal is wishing I would have traded for a .243 Winchester instead ...... In short, I am extremely pleased with my no-frills little companion ..... [smilie=s:

[EDG]

Actually they want to be killed by a really nice rifle. :kidding:


.


No game animal I know of will ever be able to tell the difference between getting shot with a premium rifle or with an econo-gun.


.

[35 shooter]

Thanks for the advice. I had thought of a cross bolt and my next thought was i may not be the best person for that job lol.
Sounds like that's the way to proceed though to save this stock. I do know someone who can do it.
This is just one more reminder i need a good drill press along with some other things.

[Four Fingers of Death]

One old way of fixing a split was to get a small bolt and nut, drill a hole either side of the split, cut a trench between the two holes, fill with epoxy or similar, drop the bolt and nut in top up the epoxy and clamp or bid the stock with surgical tape or bicycle inner tube. Assembe after cleanup and the repair is invisible.

[country gent]

You can flex it open and work a good thin epoxy into the crack, I have at times even used a rubber tipped blow gun and air compressor to hel;p push it deeper into the crack and get a more consistent fill. Then clamp from the sides in a padded vise. Working the glue in like this gets a solid bond and fill. Ideally when you clamp it youshould see a little glue push back out of the crack. This tells you you got a good fill and coating. A cross bolt can be installed also.

[35 shooter]

Thanks again for all the stock repair tips guys! Looks like this stock is fixable for sure and we'll try to get it done! I'm glad to know it after i went to the trouble to shape the stock for iron sight use and had it just perfect for me.
It'll see mostly scope use, but i like irons as a back up too, just wish i could see them as well as i used too lol.

[35 shooter]

Virtually for the cost of a decent barrel

Speaking of a good bbl....this deal keeps getting better. I was hoping the Zastava in .308 would have a 1/12 twist like the CZ's.
Tonight i ran a tight patch through the bore with a piece of tape on the rod and got a 1/12 twist measurement dead on. Should be great for what i wanted as a good cast shooter!!

[dakota]

I think any rifle that one can afford, that allows them trigger time is a good rifle. :-)

I to have preferences, and that is for old steel and wood. My last several bargin rifles were all made around or well before the middle of the last century. Many people fail to consider used rifles as a source of constant enjoyment. I think part of this comes from todays throw away teachings and schooling.

The first place I go when touring LGSs is the used racks.

Ken

I concur - when I get to the city, which happens several times a year. I look at the used gun racks and have found a jewel now and then.

[tdoyka]

I think any rifle that one can afford, that allows them trigger time is a good rifle. :-)

I to have preferences, and that is for old steel and wood. My last several bargin rifles were all made around or well before the middle of the last century. Many people fail to consider used rifles as a source of constant enjoyment. I think part of this comes from todays throw away teachings and schooling.

The first place I go when touring LGSs is the used racks.

Ken

i have to go with that. its hard to find "old school wood n steel" . its alot easier to find a 328 superdoopermagnumitis with a synthic stock and stainless barrel for around $300-400.
now don't get me wrong, i like my tc encores. but i love my "old school wood n steel" .

[JDHasty]

Today I am CZ man. Sure there are rifles that will perform for less. But they don't interest me. I just don't trust their longevity the way I trust a CZ. I shoot 788s too, but if it were me, and CZ offers the caliber - save up just a little longer. This is coming from a man who loved American iron. I just cannot justify anything less and unless it is a Dakoda and I just have to have that specific rifle CZ has it over anything else currently on the market.

[Freeman_Longhunter]

I have noticed it seems that every manufacturer is coming out with a "price point" or Bargin rifle. Winchester XPR, Ruger American, Savage Axis, Browing XB3 etc.. They are obviously coming out to compete with other brands and all comes down to sales. Most people in this day and age/economy cannot afford the higher priced rifles. To you rifles experts, are these price point rifles really that much different than the higher priced rifles? I know things like barrel nuts, machine time and synthetic cut manufacture time but besides this is the quality there? I do own the Ruger American and I can say that I am highly impressed.
They are going to be refinements present in the big dollar guns that you won't see in the economy line. Exotic hardwoods, jeweling, hand checkering and so on. But that stuff doesn't make the rifle. Personally, I want to focus on my hunt not that scratch on my $2500 Sako ( minus that Zeiss optic) with high grade walnut stock.

A Remington 770 in 7mm mag is hardcore Bear medicine here in the Sierras. It's a reliable 400 dollar rifle that drives tacks.

Bottom line, and to answer your question, yes, they are reliable and worth it. Modern machining and manufacturing can put out good stuff at an affordable price. The package deal optic that comes with some models is a whole other discussion.....and not always a positive discussion. Happy hunting brother!

"Do yourselves a favor....take your youngins to the woods"

[bdbruce]

Over a year ago, I purchased a new Mossberg MVP Varmiter in 5.56 NATO/223 Rem, Heavy fluted barrel, Acutrigger. Mounted a BSA 9-32X scope. It has a wood Laminated stock. My wife and I have put at least a thousand cast boolits thru it. We have been paper punching with it at 100 and 200 yards. We can get groups at 100 yds less than 1", I have a feeling the rifle is more accurate than I have the skill to shoot tighter groups. Having the ability to use 10 shot AR Mags. (I'm in California) to me is a plus. This is the first Mossberg firearm we have purchased, We really enjoy shooting it. We do have a budget so that a $1000 rifle is out of the question. I always need another Boolit mold.

[Rustyleee]

I'm getting too old to be shooting ugly rifles.

[CHeatermk3]

Homely and shoots good beats pretty and doesent shoot good at least in my book.

[Zeebob]

A while back I bought a Ruger American in .308. I wanted a lightweight rifle, and it is lighter than anything else in my safe... It was inexpensive, but I'm not convinced that is it cheap.. It shoots as good as my M70, my CZ550, my Howa 1500 along with all the others... The last time I had it to the range...the last 3 shots I fired using 165gr Hornady SST's on top of Varget went into 1.12"...at 300yds. I can certainly be happy with that!

Competition is keen in the gun industry...and today they are offering the average guy good accurate rifles at an exceptional value for their dollar.

Zee