ANY, Honest People Left ??

[butch2570]

Monday a gun store a 1 hr 45 min away, but it is very close to all my in laws, received some pistol powder, I called as it was being unloaded and the owner said he had 1 keg of unique for $200 and numerous singles of bullseye, unique and green and red dot for $30 . That was more than I was willing to pay for the keg so I declined, since I bought one at a local store 2 months ago for $165. Today I called him back with the intent of getting a couple singles of unique and 1 red dot, He said he had 3 # of unique left that were in ziploc bags... SAY WHAT? , I said, he repeated it again, ( Now I'm suspicious) He doesn't know I'm the man he priced the keg to for $200, So I said do you have any Kegs by any chance? He said , I did ,but we broke it down, I said , broke it down as in put the keg in the ziploc bags that are now 1 lb? He said ,Yea that's right. I said ,how much is the ziploc baggie of Unique?? He said it's $30 , Now I'm [smilie=b: !! I said you aren't allowed to repackage that on uncertified scales, without the storage and handling precautions and such and a unapproved container, and sale that.. He said , Hey Man, I'm helping everyone get a little of this and spreading it out a little.. I said really, Well I'm the guy you priced that Keg to on monday at $25 a lb for a total of $200 , Now you've broken it down ( so it will sell faster, not everyone is capable of throwing 200 down at one time for a keg) AND now charging a additional $5 a lb , at $30 lb for the same powder ,so he will now sell that 8 lbs for $240, WHAT A CROOK I SAID.. I am calling the ATF and reporting your activities , HE was speechless , you could of heard a pin drop.. Integrity is almost a thing of the past.

[jonas302]

you lost me at not buying the 8 pounds unique (: other than that of course a pound is more than bulk big deal

[altheating]

Looks like he will have 8 happy customers when the other three pounds sell and one guy who don't have any Unique

[btroj]

I don't care about the integrity of pricing, I won't buy powder in a ziplock bag! I don't want powder in containers with marking placed there by who knows whom. Scary.

The pricing is typical of anything. Buy an 8 foot board and it isn't the same price as buying 4 2 footers that were made from one 8 footer.

Buy it or don't, that is your choice.

[LNK]

You might want to rethink your response. Just because you aren't happy with his deal, doesn't mean others wont be. If you call the ATF and they give him grief, what have you gained? Let him try to sell at what ever price he wants. Caveat Emptor.... Just think, you could have had 8 pounds for $200. Look for a deal you are happy with. They are out there.

LNK

[butch2570]

Looks like he will have 8 happy customers when the other three pounds sell and one guy who don't have any Unique No , I have unique. I'm not doing business with someone who is paying $110 -120 for that powder from his supplier and then is trying to find a underhanded and unlawful way to maximize his profit. He was content to sell that keg whole for 200 , but instead took it out of the original container to charge more for smaller quantity. I prefer to deal with honest people not crooks. And I'm not in desperation mode either.

[btroj]

How is he a crook?

This is the whole "gouger" thing all over again. He made a business decision. You made a decision as a consumer. Capitalism at work.

[C. Latch]

How is he a crook?

This is the whole "gouger" thing all over again. He made a business decision. You made a decision as a consumer. Capitalism at work.

Exactly.

[Bored1]

How is he a crook?

This is the whole "gouger" thing all over again. He made a business decision. You made a decision as a consumer. Capitalism at work.

I kinda see it the same way. No different than buying an estate "lot" taking what you want, and reselling everything else for the price you originally paid.

However, there's no way I'm buying powder from anyone in a ziplock bag. My memory isn't great enough to risk that. Only 2 people I know that I would take powder from not in a properly marked container. And BOTH of them know how to mark items for MY use, lol, BIG BOLD WRITTING, leaving NO DOUBT what it is!

[Bzcraig]

The reason people decide to go into business is to make a profit, so if your beef is because he is making a profit, it is a futile argument. If your beef is because he is operating outside of the law, then follow through with your threat because he is treading in potentially dangerous waters for those who would be foolish enough to purchase powder in a Baggie. I've only seen two things in my almost 60 years sold in a baggie, ice and dope.

[butch2570]

You might want to rethink your response. Just because you aren't happy with his deal, doesn't mean others wont be. If you call the ATF and they give him grief, what have you gained? Let him try to sell at what ever price he wants. Caveat Emptor.... Just think, you could have had 8 pounds for $200. Look for a deal you are happy with. They are out there.

LNK Like I said, I recently bought a keg out the door for 165, from a respectable, local store. I don't care if you pay $30 a lb for your unique, I posted this so that others whom like honest businesses ,can be warned about some of the practices that are taking place by dishonest people.

[btroj]

It isn't dishonest! Your opinion is that it is but I don't see it that way.

It may be dumb, selling in a bag, but it isn't dishonest. He can price it how he choses. You can buy it or not. It really is that simple.

Your determination that he overpriced it does not make it dishonest.

[butch2570]

How is he a crook?

This is the whole "gouger" thing all over again. He made a business decision. You made a decision as a consumer. Capitalism at work. Brad , The man illegally took the powder out of a Original container, and put in a ziploc baggie so he could sell it for more money , and you have to ask how is he a crook? I have never seen a gun store do this ,ever, individuals at a gun show , yes , but a gun store I have not.. Have you? I'm just asking , not arguing. Yes I'm aware of capitalism at work, that's why I didn't have any part of it.

[leeggen]

Seems even in the sports world there isn't any honesty. But in the world of business you are out to make a profit, and now days anyway you can to increase that margin. The man is in bisuness to make a living, not to hand you powder at a price you like and he looses money.

CD

[btroj]

Brad , The man illegally took the powder out of a Original container, and put in a ziploc baggie so he could sell it for more money , and you have to ask how is he a crook? I have never seen a gun store do this ,ever, individuals at a gun show , yes , but a gun store I have not.. Have you? I'm just asking , not arguing. Yes I'm aware of capitalism at work, that's why I didn't have any part of it.

Then stick to the issue, the illicit repackaging of the powder. That is a real issue. Leave the pricing out, it has no bearing here.

I won't buy powder in packages like that.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Kinda makes you wonder if he used his old bathroom bath scales to weigh up the bags at 1 lb. Also makes you wonder if after using those "accurate" scales was there about a tea cup of powder extra left over?Robert

[jcwit]

Way back when in an earlier life I knew a shop that weighted out powder on a scales and sold it in a paper bag. This powder came from a real keg, not an 8 lb. jug.

So what's the problem.

Oh ya, you didn't get it for what you wanted to pay.

Is there that much of a shortage of powder where you are at? There isn't here, may not get exactly what you want, but you get a usable powder.

[butch2570]

Then stick to the issue, the illicit repackaging of the powder. That is a real issue. Leave the pricing out, it has no bearing here.

I won't buy powder in packages like that. No it does have a bearing here, it's a 2 part issue , he done the '' illicit'' issue, to to profit more from it. Not to mention you have to have state certified scales from the division of weights and measures anyway to sale in quantity , even if he were allowed to repackage it.

[dragon813gt]

The practice of buying in bulk and then selling smaller quantities for a profit is not illicit. It's called business. Every retailer does it. I'm sure the state would like to know about using an uncertified scale for trade. If you want to pursue anything I'd go that route before the Feds.

[bhn22]

No. He now has more handling in it, and people don't work for free. At least around here. I'm not even sold on the illicit packaging angle. Hodgdons used to sell powder in paper bags, and the surplus powder vendors certainly aren't using original packaging either. Unless you consider the same bottles that are used to package bleach as "original". You also have no idea at all as to how much he paid his supplier for the powder. I too disapprove of plastic bags, but it's not my battle.

[Love Life]

I remember one time I was in the field. I had only brought 1 carton of cigs for a 2 1/2 week long field op (I was a boot). Another devil (Salty and senior) had bought several cartons and he did not smoke. He started off selling the cigs for 5 dollars a pack. I bought them and was happy to. Then he moved up to 10 dollars a pack. I cursed his mother and questioned his heritage. He asked me/said to me "Shut up boot. What else are you going to smoke?"

He was right. I bought his cigs and they were delicious.

Moral of the story...make that money when you can and bring enough cigs to the field. Ooh, look, a kitty...

[btroj]

I wonder how many hardware stores sell packs of 100 washers and then break those same packages for individual sale. Bet the price goes up when buying singles.......

Other than the packaging I just don't see an issue here. Interesting that the 3 NE guys see this pretty much the same way, must be out midwestern sensibilities.

[jcwit]

LOL, back in the 60's I sold them for 10 cents a stick. This was in basic, and on marches etc. there were those who always ran out.

[dragon813gt]

Seems to be quite a few members buying Starline brass in 1k(or more) lots and then selling them in smaller lots for more money. Quick, call the police :laugh:

[butch2570]

The practice of buying in bulk and then selling smaller quantities for a profit is not illicit. It's called business. Every retailer does it. I'm sure the state would like to know about using an uncertified scale for trade. If you want to pursue anything I'd go that route before the Feds. Try to ship that powder on the road without the DOT approved container and its handling precaution labels,and see what happens, we are not talking about buying brown beans in a drum or washers in a bag, this is a flammable propellant.

[Love Life]

Hair spray is flammable.

[btroj]

Try to ship that powder on the road without the DOT approved container and its handling precaution labels,and see what happens, we are not talking about buying brown beans in a drum, this is a flammable propellant.

Again, then stick with the issue. If it bugs you that he repackaged powder in what you say is an illegal manner then stick with that.
The second you mention pricing it sounds like sour grapes and whining.

[Plate plinker]

Okay I think I'll buy a semi truck load of gasoline on the cheap, then sell it for a nice markup in gallon milk jugs is that okay?
Without the proper measuring tools.

If if there is a law against the break down that dude is wrong sorry end of story for a legit business.

Price I could care less that's his problem or profit. Even though I don't like it because it's screwing our brothers in arms. We should be more upstanding it's what makes the shooting community better than most. In my opinion.

[bhn22]

Try to ship that powder on the road without the DOT approved container and its handling precaution labels,and see what happens, we are not talking about buying brown beans in a drum or washers in a bag, this is a flammable propellant.

But if he doesn't ship it, is it still illegal? Immoral? Fattening? It's not worth getting uptight over, Butch.

[bhn22]

Okay I think I'll buy a semi truck load of gasoline on the cheap, then sell it for a nice markup in gallon milk jugs is that okay?

If if there is a law against the break down that dude is wrong sorry end of story for a legit business.

Price I could care less that's his problem or profit. Even though I don't like it because it's screwing our brothers in arms. We should be more upstanding it's what makes the shooting community better than most. In my opinion.

Huh? You totally lost me on the last turn.

[jcwit]

Try to ship that powder on the road without the DOT approved container and its handling precaution labels,and see what happens, we are not talking about buying brown beans in a drum or washers in a bag, this is a flammable propellant.

Who said anything about shipping anything. The dealer is selling it to the consumer. I repackage my powder into brass cases with a bullet, I ship them to the range in my vehicle, I have no DOT container for them nor do I have any handling precaution labels.

Once the consumer has them in hand he may do as he wishes.

[butch2570]

Again, then stick with the issue. If it bugs you that he repackaged powder in what you say is an illegal manner then stick with that.
The second you mention pricing it sounds like sour grapes and whining. I know if you ever go into business for yourself , I will keep one eye on you at all times ... ;)

[Plate plinker]

Furthermore if this shop is willing to break this alleged law what others might he break. Paper work to buy a gun no you don't need that come on down. Felony no problem I have a 12" shotgun for you! We don't need people like this with us.

[Love Life]

Why, I even heard that the man kicks puppies and ignores old ladies when they need help crossing the road!!! RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE!!!!!

[Plate plinker]

Huh? You totally lost me on the last turn.


Which part exactly?

[jcwit]

Back in my teens I worked in a hardware, early on we bought nails in wooden kegs, dumped them in a bin and sold them by the lb., some of the contractors bought nails by the whole keg, they paid less per lb. then the farmer buying 2 lbs. of nails.

we did the same for lots of items, seeds in the spring, sulfur, lots of things.

Oh, we also sold .22's & shotgun shells by the piece. They sold for more that way then by the whole box.

[Plate plinker]

JC that was way back and doesn't have any bearing. With all do respect. Items that are "regulated" are a bit different.

The laws I suspect have changed since then.

[jcwit]

Furthermore if this shop is willing to break this alleged law what others might he break. Paper work to buy a gun no you don't need that come on down. Felony no problem I have a 12" shotgun for you! We don't need people like this with us.

Are you positive there is a law requiring powder to be sold in the container the manufacturer packaged it in?

When one buys surplus powder it is broken down by the seller, I know, I buy it.

[RogerDat]

Baggies of reloading powder is possibly not correct weight, certainly not properly labeled. May not even be one consistent powder! Can imagine coming up just a little short and throwing something "similar" in to make up the pound. The other merchants who paid for a properly weighed and labeled pound container probably paid a premium that this seller did not.

Doubt the wholesaler or manufacturer would approve of this practice. Price charged is irrelevant to any of this.

Now on the price yes the merchant has the right to charge whatever they want, customers have every right to decline to do business with that retailer. Customer is free to tell others about them selling over priced merchandise during a time of scarcity. Customer is also free to render an opinion and disparage the practices. The fact that the original keg was overpriced may have prevented being able to sell it, that did not make it somehow legal to break it up into baggies. The fact that the baggies where even more overpriced is just adding insult to injury.

If I managed to score a jug it might come about that I would sell a friend or acquaintance a lb. as a favor, I think I would encourage them to bring the empty container rather than a baggie but could see baggie happening too. But this would be 100% private party sale and if I decided to charge the 1# bottle retail price rather than cost I paid that would be a private matter, probably depend on if you were a friend or an acquaintance.

[Plate plinker]

Alleged. It all depends on this. I don't know the OP thought it was against the law. I went with that.

[jcwit]

JC that was way back and doesn't have any bearing. With all do respect. Items that are "regulated" are a bit different.

The laws I suspect have changed since then.

With all due respect, why am I able to buy repackaged surplus powder?


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?7584-Surplus-Powder-sources

Now for shipping purposes they do have labels.

BTW, its jcwit, not JC.

[Plate plinker]

Is your mil surp powder cut on certified scales? I think that's the issue.

also is it properly packaged? Hazmat and all that stuff? They are really cracking down on labeling these days. At work we have to relabel any item we break down for the OSHA people.

[dragon813gt]

Okay I think I'll
buy a semi truck load of gasoline on the cheap, then sell it for a nice markup in gallon milk jugs is that okay?

Sell it in approved containers w/ certified contents and you are fine. It amazes how so few understand basic business principles. Buy low, sell high, that's how you make a profit.

Regarding packaging and transportation of powder that's a completely different subject. Do scales in your state have to be certified for trade? If yes, then there is your legal recourse. You can complain all you want about him charging more money for smaller quantities. But that's how businesses work. I can't dumb it down any further.

Oh yeah, as far as transporting the powder. That is on the buyer. You assume all responsibility the second you put it in your vehicle.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Again, then stick with the issue. If it bugs you that he repackaged powder in what you say is an illegal manner then stick with that.
The second you mention pricing it sounds like sour grapes and whining.


I know if you ever go into business for yourself , I will keep one eye on you at all times ... ;)
Yeah, you better keep BOTH your eyes on Brad right now !
I hear he buys large bottles of medicine for cheap and empties those large bottles into smaller bottles to gouge the buyers :mrgreen:

[ballistim]

Wow! Really kicked up a hornet nest on this one... Years ago I used to be able to buy 700X at the local skeet club in coffee cans from kegs they bought & it was dirt cheap, I used it for everything! Too bad those days are long gone. I understand safer methods are preferred but wish we didn't have to worry about legalities at every turn, sure gets tiresome.

[jcwit]

Is your mil surp powder cut on certified scales? I think that's the issue.

also is it properly packaged? Hazmat and all that stuff? They are really cracking down on labeling these days. At work we have to relabel any item we break down for the OSHA people.

I have no idea whether this dealer in fact has a certified, but hop on down to Varns & H------, and all the scales they use for retail sales are certified.

At work I fully understand, but you are in the manufacturing business, which sells the product to a dealer. Whole different deal than selling to a consumer. I started my life out working for Varns, spent a number of years with Coachmen in sales then purchasing for their warehouse division. Wife & I had our own retail business for 20 years.

I do not believe there is anything wrong with breaking down powder to sell to the consumer. Possibly I may be wrong, but I don't thing so.

[762 shooter]

With enough regulations, even you can become a criminal.

762

[Plate plinker]

With enough regulations, even you can become a criminal.

762

BINGO I think we have a winner!

[Dave18]

:cry:, since powder has not been in the most easy to get category,

seen more than a few, kegs get broke up and weighed out into what ever container the buyeee brought,

while some people still get anal about the quote rules, comes a time when the rules mean nothing , if you want something better get it hook or crook,

since harder times are coming believe it or not,
-------------------------------------------------

With enough regulations, even you can become a criminal.

we are already there, you just have not come up on the elites radar to be culled from the herd yet, and bled out of all your money for the quote system

been a bad week, have nothing good to say about the quote system

[shooterg]

I can remember getting powder in paper bags or you could bring your own mason jar...too many rules now, too many people worried about 'em . Of course, when it went in the bag, we did see it come right out of the huge marked keg. Wouldn't trust a baggie of powder either if I didn't see it poured !

[freebullet]

I'd buy unique in a zip lock @15$ per pound.

[altheating]

Wilco, start a poll, would you buy or not but the powder in baggies from this dealer?

[dtknowles]

Seems to be quite a few members buying Starline brass in 1k(or more) lots and then selling them in smaller lots for more money. Quick, call the police :laugh:

They even put them in a Ziploc bag :-)

Tim

[jcwit]

Are they primed?

[freebullet]

I would buy varget by the pocketful were it my only option fer gittin it.

[Dave18]

Wouldn't trust a baggie of powder either if I didn't see it poured

over time, even yrs back in a paperbag, we would watch who ever pour it out of the keg, and even then a paper with the number or name of the powder was stuffed in the marked bag,

[mack1]

Okay I think I'll buy a semi truck load of gasoline on the cheap, then sell it for a nice markup in gallon milk jugs is that okay?
Without the proper measuring tools.

If if there is a law against the break down that dude is wrong sorry end of story for a legit business.

Price I could care less that's his problem or profit. Even though I don't like it because it's screwing our brothers in arms. We should be more upstanding it's what makes the shooting community better than most. In my opinion.

You will have to store 9000 gal with secondary containment and come up with 9000 milk jugs this will be a pricy investment maby $30,000 or more so you will need to sell your whares at twice the price of your competition with leaky containers, then there is evaporation. I would try something else.

[dragon813gt]

They even put them in a Ziploc bag :-)

Tim

Has that been confirmed......scratch that. Is the buyer made aware that the cartridges are put in a ziploc bag? Because they come in a very thin clear bag from Starline :laugh:

[btroj]

Which part exactly?

Our brothers in arms? We should be more upstanding?

It it what way are we brothers in arms? More upstanding? Are you insinuating that by not agreeing that this is "dishonest" we are less than upstanding?

[RED333]

I won't buy powder in a ziplock bag! I don't want powder in containers with marking placed there by who knows whom. Scary.



This about a million times, if the packer forgot what was what, well it goes bad fast!

[btroj]

Yeah, you better keep BOTH your eyes on Brad right now !
I hear he buys large bottles of medicine for cheap and empties those large bottles into smaller bottles to gouge the buyers :mrgreen:

It is all OK Jon, my counting tray and spatula are certified.[smilie=s:

We do, however, charge more per tab if you get one or two than if you get a month at a time. Silly things like bottles, labels,and our time seem to have value.

[Plate plinker]

Not insinuating anything that just how I feel about these things. Don't you think we all reflect on each other in the eyes of the public?

Its the same as trashing government land that we can shoot on. It will be closed because of some turds. We the shooting community must do our best to keep the foolish from ruining what we have.

[kfarm]

If you are that concerned about the shops business practice, report him to the ATF and get his shop closed. Not only will that upset all his customers but you will bask in the knowledge that no one will get away with business practices that you do not approve of.

Sure hope the 8lb repacked ETR7 from Expansion Ind. That's due in tomorrow will be in a plastic jug rather than a zip lock bag. Seriously man get over it.

[kfarm]

Sorry for the negative post but since the Facebook page is gone I've not been myself and the emotions have been hard to control.

[Bored1]

I would buy varget by the pocketful were it my only option fer gittin it.

IF it ever comes to this, please remember to let me know!!!! Smokers in a room, with pockets full of Varget sounds like it may be more excitement than Melissa allows!!!!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It is all OK Jon, my counting tray and spatula are certified.[smilie=s:

We do, however, charge more per tab if you get one or two than if you get a month at a time. Silly things like bottles, labels,and our time seem to have value.
How much for two "Tylenol no 3" caplets in a Ziplock baggie ? :mrgreen:

[bhn22]

It is all OK Jon, my counting tray and spatula are certified.[smilie=s:

We do, however, charge more per tab if you get one or two than if you get a month at a time. Silly things like bottles, labels,and our time seem to have value.

Did the Bureau of Weights and Measures certify the number of fingers you have on each hand? I seem to recall that when I was young, people came from far and wide to buy meat from our local butcher. It seems that he was the only one in the area who's thumb weighed less than one lb.

[btroj]

How much for two "Tylenol no 3" caplets in a Ziplock baggie ? :mrgreen:

My license........

[sparky45]

Y'all might want to check out this set of regs. If I'm reading them correctly, smokeless powder, by law can only be transported/stored in the OEM's containers. The regs are from National Fire Protection Association powder storage and transportation guidelines.

13-3 SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS
13-3.1 Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 lb (11.3 kg), in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation, shall be permitted to be transported in a private vehicle.
13-3.2 Quantities of smokeless propellants exceeding 25 lb (11.3 kg) but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), transported in a private vehicle, shall be transported in a portable magazine having wood walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.
13-3.3 Transportation of more than 50 lb (22.7 kg) of smokeless propellants in a private vehicle shall be prohibited.
13-3.4 Commercial shipments of smokeless powder for small arms which has been classed in Division 1.3 shall be permitted to be reclassed as Division 4.1 Flammable Solid for transportation purposes for shipment by motor vehicle, rail car, vessel, or cargo-only aircraft, subject to the conditions stated in the U.S. Department of Transportation "Hazardous Materials Regulations," 49 CFR 173.171.
13-3.5 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg) or not packaged in accordance with the regulations cited in 13-3.4 shall be transported in accordance with the U.S. Department of Transportation regulations for Class B propellant explosives.
13-3.6 Smokeless propellants shall be stored in shipping containers specified by U.S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations.
13-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

[jonas302]

I could only see a problem if he said he had a pound of powder you show up and its in a ziplock baggie but nope he was totally honest with you told you what the prices and terms were take it or leave it I really doubt its "illegal" to sell powder by the baggie Some dealers even weigh powder into brass cases and sell them for very high prices
I dunno but I would never trust someone that thinks threatening to call the government is a great plan

[Hamish]

No it does have a bearing here, it's a 2 part issue , he done the '' illicit'' issue, to to profit more from it. Not to mention you have to have state certified scales from the division of weights and measures anyway to sale in quantity , even if he were allowed to repackage it.

you should have never asked if you done right to start with with a forum this big you'll get every answer imaginable. Your instincts told you right, and that all that matters.

[Blacksmith]

The OP alleged that breaking down powder was illegal; how about providing a reference to the actual law allegedly broken?

The OP derived his information from two telephone calls; how does he know what kind of scales, certified or not, were used to weigh powder?

Since the OP did not see the "baggies"; how does he know how they were labeled?

It is certainly possible (my speculation) that the store rapidly sold out of Unique and his customers requested that he break it down so more could get some. I'll bet most stores buy .22 ammunition in case lots then break them down into bricks and some bricks are opened and sold as individual boxes with a price increase at each stage. There is more labor in labeling and in sales transactions for smaller quantities.

[jcwit]

Y'all might want to check out this set of regs. If I'm reading them correctly, smokeless powder, by law can only be transported/stored in the OEM's containers. The regs are from National Fire Protection Association powder storage and transportation guidelines.

13-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.



It states "permitted", doesn't say one can not store it in other ways.

You mean to tell me that I can not break open an 8 lb. jug of powder and pour it into a 1 lb. container????

Ya, Right.

[VinceG]

Even 20 years ago I have bought powder from stores weighted out in bags. It was a common practice in Missouri in the 90s. You got a good deal an nobody was harmed. I don't see any cause for gripe.

[sparky45]

I don't write the laws wit. You want to parse words, be my guest. It's that kind of parsing that got Bill Clinton great headlines.



It states "permitted", doesn't say one can not store it in other ways.

You mean to tell me that I can not break open an 8 lb. jug of powder and pour it into a 1 lb. container????

Ya, Right.

[Three44s]

I saw a butcher break a whole cow down and make a heap more from it and it went in plastic too!

I see the reference to approved containers ....... a zip lock don't cut that requirement.

But I don't buy unmarked unsealed gun powder ..... them regulations are inside of my ears.

Three 44s

[MaryB]

Lets see, he sells powder and probably other reloading items so likely has an accurate scale he can use to weigh it on. I see no laws saying it can't be resold in smaller amounts but his insurance company might not like him if there is a fire and the powder is not in the original jug(if evidence survives).

But no way would I buy powder in a baggie unless I either knew the guy very very well(my LGS I would trust for example) or I watched it be weighed out on the spot.

[jcwit]

I don't write the laws wit. You want to parse words, be my guest. It's that kind of parsing that got Bill Clinton great headlines.

Those are not laws, they are Regulations put forth by National Fire Protection Association and are powder storage and transportation guidelines.

At least that's how you phrased it in your post, sparky45.

The handle is jcwit, not wit, get it!

[Blacksmith]

Y'all might want to check out this set of regs. If I'm reading them correctly, smokeless powder, by law can only be transported/stored in the OEM's containers. The regs are from National Fire Protection Association powder storage and transportation guidelines.


Those are guidelines and only a recommendation unless incorporated by direct reference in a Federal, State, or Local "LAW".

For example in the peoples republic of Maryland the 8 pound keg is illegal because by Maryland law, I'll look up the citation if anyone cares, an individual can only have a maximum of 5 pounds of powder. That is per person so you and your wife could have 10 pounds but you might have trouble explaining who owns the keg.

[Recluse]

No it does have a bearing here, it's a 2 part issue , he done the '' illicit'' issue, to to profit more from it. Not to mention you have to have state certified scales from the division of weights and measures anyway to sale in quantity , even if he were allowed to repackage it.

Actually, YOU are the one treading on risky legal grounds here--you are stating publicly and as fact that this guy has broken the law and is probably shorting some potential customers several ounces of powder when in fact. . . you have zero direct evidence or proof of it.

He might just have a $5K set of Ohaus scales he used to dole out the powder. He might've run down to the local pharmacist and used their scales.

Secondly, I'd suggest you do some research into BATFE laws regarding what is required to resell smokeless powder. . .

If this guy gets wind of all the noise you're making, comes here and reads it, proves who you are and decides to sue you, the burden of proof will be on YOU to prove that he actually shorted someone x-amount of gunpowder because he used shoddy scales or whatever.

Bottom line? If you don't like the way the guy does business, then don't do business with him. Period.

:coffee:

[Certaindeaf]

I've seen quite a few folk selling (on-line) baggied up "bulk box" .22lr. Come on. Save that carp for the end days.

[jcwit]

Once again Recluse comes forth with words of wisdom and the correct reply.

More people should think as he does.

[btroj]

Recluse nailed it.

[bhn22]

Indeed.

[WILCO]

Recluse nailed it.


Yep. I didn't see an issue with the store owner and his activities.
Life would be a lot simpler if folks would learn economics 101 and read the U.S. Constitution.

[Firebricker]

Well Recluse does sum it up nicely in post #80. From reading the first post it seems he called wanted the product did not like the price. Then after thinking about called back and found it higher priced and is now more upset. When I started reloading shot shells as a teenager my friends bought brand "X" in 1lbs containers I bought brand "Y" in half pound containers. Buying a half pound cost more but that was all I usually had at one time. Also I would not go into an unfamiliar shop and buy out of zip lock bags if it was a store a frequented and trusted yes I would. And if I may be so bold to ask did you actually call the BATF or just vent a little? FB

[1Shirt]

Years ago (many many years ago), I bought 4831 and BL-C2 from Hogden at Shawnee Mission for 50 cents a pound in paper bags. They sold it in 1, 5, and 10 pound bags, and in 25 lb. tubs. I trusted what I bought in those bags back then, but would not be trusting paper bagged powders today.
1Shirt!

[Geraldo]

NFPA is not a regulatory agency.

The flip side of the OP's first post is that they shop owner was doing exactly what he said: splitting up the keg because people wanted smaller quantities. Would I buy an unmarked bag of powder? No. Would I buy a bag of powder I watched come out of a freshly opened 8# keg? If I needed it, sure I would.

[dtknowles]

Well Recluse does sum it up nicely in post #80. From reading the first post it seems he called wanted the product did not like the price. Then after thinking about called back and found it higher priced and is now more upset. When I started reloading shot shells as a teenager my friends bought brand "X" in 1lbs containers I bought brand "Y" in half pound containers. Buying a half pound cost more but that was all I usually had at one time. Also I would not go into an unfamiliar shop and buy out of zip lock bags if it was a store a frequented and trusted yes I would. And if I may be so bold to ask did you actually call the BATF or just vent a little? FB

I could be wrong but I don't see how the BATFE would have jurisdiction. Smokeless power is not an explosive it is a flammable solid. They should not have jurisdiction anymore than they have jurisdiction over matches.

Help me here, you don't have to have a license from the BATFE to sell reloading components, correct? How about ammo, to make yes to retail no?

Tim

[ShooterAZ]

I used to buy Red Dot in paper sacks! From an old man who ran a business out of his house. At least I could look at it and tell what it was. When did repackaging powder become illegal? If it was even close to a pound I wouldn't worry over it being short a few grains. The guy is not a crook in my opinion....and I probably would have bought some of it myself if I needed it.

[freebullet]

Pssssssst!!!! A dude, wanna buy some bootleg gunpowder? We call it rainbow dot. It comes wrapped up in a balloon.

[jeepyj]

The OP heading states "ANY, Honest people left??" Seems to me like the shop owned was being blatantly honest. I don't necessarily feel as times are tough enough to warrant me purchasing it that way but if it was my LGS and I needed powder more than I do now sure I'd buy it. Mostly because I'm very failure with the small town atmosphere of my LGS. I also realize not everybody is lucky enough to live in small community with a decent trust level. For the last several months our local trading post hasn't been able to get some of the more desirable components. One such item is 22lr. So he has the posted the bulk label over the top of small re-bagged zip locks with 50 rounds in each. He has stated to anyone who asks that he is forced into buying from some of the folks who are fortunate to have more than they need(scalpers) just to keep enough to sell to those buying a 22 rifle or handgun with a few extra to help keep the doors open. Philosophy being that if folks keep on coming in and he doesn't have what they are looking for they stop coming he won't be able to stay in business long enough to see the through the other side of the shortages. Not trying to be disrespectful to the OP but I simply don't agree with you about Honesty of people. I have made countless dealings on this site for instance and have never been had anything but outstanding dealings with countless honest boolit casters and similar minded folks.
Jeepyj

[bhn22]

I don't see it as being any worse than buying partial cans of powder at gun shows. I've never done it, but I see it happen at almost every show.

[Charley]

Not aware of any illegalities with what he is doing, depends somewhat on the location, and state laws and regs. Where he IS treading on thin ice is with his insurance carrier. Depends on his contract, of course, but seriously doubt they would pay any claim rising from sale of smokless powder not in original containers, or lacking the standard warning labels. Local shop here was reselling .22 LR, breaking down bricks, and selling in ziplocks. No warnings, no caliber markings, and so on. Lawsuits are easy to file, and can get very, very expensive to defend against, even when without merit. Seller can do what he wants, but what he is doing seems risky to me, from a business point of view.

[gkainz]

How much for two "Tylenol no 3" caplets in a Ziplock baggie ? :mrgreen:
If you're in the hospital, about $125 per caplet ... and they don't even put them in a baggie.

[altheating]

I think the OP should have read something like, I passed up a 8 pounder of Unique and when I came to my senses it was gone! Anybody feel sorry for me?
As far as that dealer goes, good for him, he now has kept eight if his loyal customers shooting, he has one guy who lives a hour and a half away who is pissed, Who cares! He probably will never come back anyway. As a business owner I would rather have the eight regular customers happy than one happy little piss pot.

[btroj]

If you're in the hospital, about $125 per caplet ... and they don't even put them in a baggie.

No, but they are delivered to you, along with something to drink.

[butch2570]

Brad, you and the others appear to be technically correct. On Alliants' web page under powder handling and storage it says; "10- 3.6 , Smokeless powders shall be stored in shipping containers specified by, U S DOT Hazardous Materials Regulations" . This is what I was basing the legalities on and that ATF would be the ones involved since smokeless powder was the item in question, Well I guess this is not CFR , it doesn't state that, what I do see is the NFPA listing of 11-3.6 , which is the same sentence that Alliant has on their web page. So, with that being said , it appears You and the rest were correct and I was Wrong. I'm a man ,and can face up to it if I'm wrong, so there you have it...... That in no way changes my opinion of what he was doing.

[butch2570]

I think the OP should have read something like, I passed up a 8 pounder of Unique and when I came to my senses it was gone! Anybody feel sorry for me?
As far as that dealer goes, good for him, he now has kept eight if his loyal customers shooting, he has one guy who lives a hour and a half away who is pissed, Who cares! He probably will never come back anyway. As a business owner I would rather have the eight regular customers happy than one happy little piss pot. I had a extra hundred to by some powder with, that's why I called back to inquire about the 2 lbs of unique and a lb of red dot.

[jaysouth]

Actually, I have encountered this situation twice in the last 20 years. The only person that's going to get their knickers in a wad over repackaging power on this scale is the Fire Marshall. In one county, the fire marshal shrugged his shoulders and life went on in one pound plastic bags at the skeet club.

About five counties over, the fire marshal ordered a very large retailer to start storing containers of powder in a magazine and put only one bottle of each on retail shelves for display because of the tons of powder previously displayed on shelves, and, no more breaking down original containers. Actually three instances as I think about it, there is a gun shop in an impoverished rural part of AR that is breaking down 8 pounders as recently as last week. His customers are not complaining and the county does not have a fire marshal.

[LAH]

I've broken down many a 8 pound jugs. Locals love me for it. They mostly brought their own containers. I only marked the powder up 20% so they paid the mark up of my cost on an 8 pounder instead of a 20% mark up of a one pounder. They were all very happy even though some of the jugs brought in weren't labeled correctly. All of them had sense enough to relabel & no Glocks were destroyed in the process. Just saying.

[btroj]

Butch, you have no need to apologize for anything. You are entitled to your opinion. We may not agree but so what?
I don't agree with myself on everything.

You saw something that bothered you. I wouldn't have gotten that worked up over it but I'm not you.

Please, don't feel like you owe me, or anyone here, an apology. You are entirely welcome to differ with me.

[jcwit]

Butch, you have no need to apologize for anything. You are entitled to your opinion. We may not agree but so what?
I don't agree with myself on everything.

You saw something that bothered you. I wouldn't have gotten that worked up over it but I'm not you.

Please, don't feel like you owe me, or anyone here, an apology. You are entirely welcome to differ with me.

Be nice if some felt that way about some of my opinions. LOL

[btroj]

Jcwit, you are entitled to differ with me too. At times we have disagreed but it certainly doesn't change my views of you as a person. You state your case and stand behind it. That is something I can respect.

If if we all agreed the world would be an awful boring place.

[Love Life]

We all have disagreements of one sort another on here. It happens. Even though I've had disagreements, I'd still sell the shirt off my back to them for cheap if they ever needed it.

[butch2570]

Butch, you have no need to apologize for anything. You are entitled to your opinion. We may not agree but so what?
I don't agree with myself on everything.

You saw something that bothered you. I wouldn't have gotten that worked up over it but I'm not you.

Please, don't feel like you owe me, or anyone here, an apology. You are entirely welcome to differ with me. I'm not asking forgiveness, I said something that I was wrong about, after further research,I admitted it. But my opinion of that practice will not change. Yeah, we disagree some, But I respect your opinion also, and the jokes and sarcasm is all good I can handle all that. Whether we are either one right or not that's ok too.

[altheating]

It sure was fun watching how fast the posts came in last night. I haven't seen anything that sparked that fast a response time in the four years that I have been here.

[butch2570]

It sure was fun watching how fast the posts came in last night. I haven't seen anything that sparked that fast a response time in the four years that I have been here. even after you called me a little piss pot ................ :popcorn:

[altheating]

Laughing ........ Piss spot was what I wrote, not wat I was thinking at the time... Still laughing

[Recluse]

Years ago (many many years ago), I bought 4831 and BL-C2 from Hogden at Shawnee Mission for 50 cents a pound in paper bags. They sold it in 1, 5, and 10 pound bags, and in 25 lb. tubs. I trusted what I bought in those bags back then, but would not be trusting paper bagged powders today.
1Shirt!

I was buying it from them when I worked just down the street (4500 Shawnee Mission Parkway, Shawnee Mission, KS) at the best ad agency I ever worked for. We lived in Olathe and I took I-35 north and exited the Shawnee Mission Parkway and passed the Hodgdon place on my way to the agency, which was next door to KCTV Channel 5. On the way home, I would stop by there with a couple of empty powder containers and "fill 'em up."

There are a LOT of things about Kansas City and that area I miss dearly, the Hodgdon folks being high up there on the list. I don't miss the winters, however. This Texan ain't nearly tough enough to endure those winters year in and year out.

:coffee:

[exile]

Recluse, you're making me homesick. I grew up several miles from Hodgdon' s, used to shoot at the Bullet Hole all the time. Now in Nebraska. It has it's advantages, but it's not really home, not for me anyway.

exile

[Artful]

Let's all join in... :razz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ

[starmac]

This is just too cornfusing, just a little while ago I read a thread where supposedely all the whiners were Alaskans, now I see this one.

[butch2570]

Well I guess if every distributor and local gun store in the U.S. figures out they can dismantle a 8 lb keg as soon as it rolls off the truck from the manufacture and they repackage it , because they can make another $5 a lb from it, that should just about dry up any remaining " cheap" powder buys for us , the consumers. I still don't understand you guys upholding that practice. Capitalism or not. Legal ? I guess so. Logical, from a consumers stand point, no.

[Artful]

So you object to 8 people getting one pound each to one person getting 8 lbs? From this consumers stand point during a time of shortage, I'd rather more consumers got powder. And while price is always an issue, if it's too high I won't buy it.

I bought 22LR at $30 a brick w/ $13 shipping so $43 a brick - same 500 rounds I used to get for $23 without shipping costs but that store doesn't have any - course i can remember getting the same brick for $19 and $13 and $10 and $8 - but then I'm old - I remember when houses cost $50K not cars.

[butch2570]

So you object to 8 people getting one pound each to one person getting 8 lbs? From this consumers stand point during a time of shortage, I'd rather more consumers got powder. And while price is always an issue, if it's too high I won't buy it.

I bought 22LR at $30 a brick w/ $13 shipping so $43 a brick - same 500 rounds I used to get for $23 without shipping costs but that store doesn't have any - course i can remember getting the same brick for $19 and $13 and $10 and $8 - but then I'm old - I remember when houses cost $50K not cars. Not what I said, I wish every one had all the powder they could stand. I'm saying that if all the distributors , online retailers and local gun stores began this practice ( because so many here have openly said , they don't see a problem with it) you can kiss the 8 lb keg prices goodbye. If you could buy ONLY a single pound of powder on line, after they broke it down and upped the price, (you said, you would rather see 8 people get powder than one) and then pay the hazmat, and shipping, you will be paying around $65 a lb for powder if you want it, and if it wasn't available to you locally.

[Love Life]

You gotta pay to play.

[starmac]

Seems to me like the guy offered it in an 8 pound keg to start with, also sounds to me thathis customers (including you) would rather buy it by the pound. For the life of me, I can't understand what you are whining about.

[bhn22]

I'm not asking forgiveness, I said something that I was wrong about, after further research,I admitted it. But my opinion of that practice will not change. Yeah, we disagree some, But I respect your opinion also, and the jokes and sarcasm is all good I can handle all that. Whether we are either one right or not that's ok too.

Butch, you were just frustrated about something, and you expressed your sentiments out loud. We all do it.

[sparky45]

To be honest. Would you buy re-packaged powder in a baggie or paper sack? I wouldn't and here's why. No quality control; no ability to know what is in the container is what I think it is; no ability to know if what I buy is current production powder and not from some estate sale partial can, or possibly mixed powder. If you think about it, there's a reason there is a "seal" on each container of powder we all currently purchase. Would you go buy a bottle of Tylenol off a store shelf that had a broken seal, didn't think so. Granted, you aren't ingesting the powder, at least I think most of us don't, but you ARE playing around with your health all the same. How far from your face is that reloaded round when you light er up, a few inches, right? The practice of breaking down OEM containers to repackage in smaller sizes is wrong, corruptible and against common accepted practices, and potentially dangerous. I bet it OP were to have enlisted the assistance of the area BATFE Gendarme said "businessman" would be in for an unpleasant experience. Even if the "businessman" was doing this practice for his good buddies (which I seriously doubt) it is a practice fraught with potential serious dangers. I bet even the "lowly" organization NFPA would have "the weight of law" to cause said "businessman" considerable grief and serious money when the "businessman's" building insurance was raised or cancelled. I know my opinion isn't the prevailing sentiment, but actions have consequences.

[jcwit]

Doing a lot of "I'll bet" there aren't you sparky45?

A lot of us old timers bought powder in paper bags scooped out of a cardboard keg years ago.

I've recently "that is within the last 15/20 years bought repackaged surplus powder from Jeff Bartlett. Might not have been in a paper sack or in a baggy but it was in a plastic bottle.

Do I trust Jeff? YUP!

Did I trust the LGS I bought powder in a paper bag from? YUP!

[ballistim]

Doing a lot of "I'll bet" there aren't you sparky45?

A lot of us old timers bought powder in paper bags scooped out of a cardboard keg years ago.

I've recently "that is within the last 15/20 years bought repackaged surplus powder from Jeff Bartlett. Might not have been in a paper sack or in a baggy but it was in a plastic bottle.

Do I trust Jeff? YUP!

Did I trust the LGS I bought powder in a paper bag from? YUP!

Yep, just bought 16lbs. from him last month, bet it came out of a really BIG container!

[sparky45]

I would expect nothing less from you wit. You're definitely a man way behind his time.

[jcwit]

I would expect nothing less from you wit. You're definitely a man way behind his time.

You REALLY have a problem addressing me by my handle of jcwit, what is your problem, do you consider that a means of calling someone a name and getting away with it?

If I'm a man way behind my time, I'm WAY ahead of you in experience and retail knowledge.

And NO I will not lower myself to addressing you in any way other that your screen handle.

You put yourself down there.

[sparky45]

Hey guess what wit, you're now on my ignore list.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Hey guess what wit, you're now on my ignore list.

He's been on mine for a long time. I don't handle pompous well.

[jcwit]

Hey guess what wit, you're now on my ignore list.

That will be very hard to endure!

[jcwit]

You do know it works both ways don't you?

[Bazoo]

Recently I came across a reloading store a few towns over. About 100 miles from me. The guy was selling powder from kegs. He said he had called the ATF and got the okay on it. Said they told him that there wasnt any actual laws about it as long as it was labeled accordingly and in a sealed container. He seemed honest. was willing to sell just a 1/2 or 1/4 for someone that wanted to work up a load but not buy a whole pound. I bought some, put it in plastic bags, then in a box for transport back home.

[Bazoo]

Post Script, I watched him pour the powder from the kegs, and when I got home I compared the purchased powder to known powder of the same varieties for verification.

[sparky45]

Good for you Bazoo; you found an honest dealer that hasn't run across one of the many bureaucrats that would have him NOT offering that service because of monumental increases in Store Insurance and complying with various local and state regulation(s) and regulators. I actually don't have anything against this practice, and if that's the only way a person can get the powder, have at it. I just feel the product is put in the OEM container with a SEAL for a purpose. All it's going to take is ONE disgruntled individual, or one injury to totally stop this type of transaction. Any others lawyers out there?

[jcwit]

Good for you Bazoo; you found an honest dealer that hasn't run across one of the many bureaucrats that would have him NOT offering that service because of monumental increases in Store Insurance and complying with various local and state regulation(s) and regulators. I actually don't have anything against this practice, and if that's the only way a person can get the powder, have at it. I just feel the product is put in the OEM container with a SEAL for a purpose. All it's going to take is ONE disgruntled individual, or one injury to totally stop this type of transaction. Any others lawyers out there?

I know its doubtful you'll read this but for what its worth, it hasn't happened in the 50+ years I've been reloading.

Lawyer??????

Now I know where you're coming from!!!!!!

Hehehehehehehe

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What he did was illegal and wrong, simultaneously, and I think it is very unwise to buy repackaged powder like this. He could have caused an explosion, and could have neighbours or customers close enough to get hurt. You don't know he didn't accidentally or even deliberately mix in a little of something else.

But real integrity would involve telling the ATF that you would have bought the lot that way at eight times $20 soon as look at it, and uncomplainingly, but the repackaging issue gives you something you can get them to hit him with.

Are you so sure you will never, without criminal intent, stray into something you wouldn't want anyone telling the ATF about?

[jcwit]

What he did was illegal and wrong, simultaneously, and I think it is very unwise to buy repackaged powder like this. He could have caused an explosion, and could have neighbours or customers close enough to get hurt. You don't know he didn't accidentally or even deliberately mix in a little of something else.

But real integrity would involve telling the ATF that you would have bought the lot that way at eight times $20 soon as look at it, and uncomplainingly, but the repackaging issue gives you something you can get them to hit him with.

Are you so sure you will never, without criminal intent, stray into something you wouldn't want anyone telling the ATF about?

#1. Post a link proving in fact it is illegal, that there is a law against it!

#2. Smokeless powder burns, it does not explode.

#3. You have never purchased anything in bulk?

[ballistim]

Seems like we as gun owners too often help out the anti-gunners by infighting amongst ourselves, including this example of drawing negative and unwanted attention to the subject of powder sales & storage. Do you really want to involve the government to scrutinize this more than they currently do? How many active shooters with more than 30 years reloading have never bought, sold, or been given powder from a keg or larger container? I've often been fortunate enough to obtain powder this way, and then have stored it in cleaned & recycled 1lb. containers properly labeled-and I'm sure that is still not acceptable to some officials (or some here). Safety measures should always be observed, and if I had a concern about something such as the situation described in the original post I would voice my concern in a non-threatening manner to those involved and step away from the situation, I have nothing against the prices involved, if I thought it was priced too high I simply wouldn't buy it, if someone felt it was worth the price, more power to them. Firearms and all aspects of purchase, ownership, transportation, hunting, storage, etc. are regulated way beyond what the majority of us here are comfortable with, so why shoot ourselves in the foot by asking officials to take a closer look into powder sales and storage procedures? I mean, do you really want to go there? Several of our European members here often lament about not have the freedoms that we have had in the past and currently still enjoy, so we should not do anything that might take away from what we are currently able to do regarding this subject by drawing any unwanted attention. I apologize for the long winded editorial but too often have been reminded of the old cliche " be careful what you ask for" after seeing the negative results of kicking sleeping dogs, pardon the expression (someone here might turn me in for suspected animal abuse! [emoji6]).

[butch2570]

Look, I said what I was reading on alliants web page was in fact not even law, that's my bad..... So please just stop the bickering about it ..

[bhn22]

Seriously guys. I agree with Butch, this thread has completely run its course.

What shall we discuss next?

[LAH]

Yes move on. Are we not fellow casters here?

[SSGOldfart]

I scored a good deal on CFE223 and 800X this morning,I got 32pounds at$25.00for the cfe223 and 32pounds of 800X at$24.00 she also so has bullseye,unique and 2400 in her warehouse so I ordered 8 pounds of each to pick up first of the week. This is a little shop I kinda stumble across from a classified ads paper I never knew it was there. She has another 60,000 CCI primers due in Monday. I got 5000 large rifle and 5000 small pistol 23/1000.

[sparky45]

I trust you got it in jugs and not paper sacks.[smilie=p:
Great score!!

[jcwit]

I scored a good deal on CFE223 and 800X this morning,I got 32pounds at$25.00for the cfe223 and 32pounds of 800X at$24.00 she also so has bullseye,unique and 2400 in her warehouse so I ordered 8 pounds of each to pick up first of the week. This is a little shop I kinda stumble across from a classified ads paper I never knew it was there. She has another 60,000 CCI primers due in Monday. I got 5000 large rifle and 5000 small pistol 23/1000.

Looks like you found the Lost Dutchmen mine.

Good pricing in todays money.

[Plate plinker]

That's alot of supplies. Your on a list now. :shock:

[markshere2]

Don't have time to read thru 8 pages right now.

Powder is not nails or hairspray. It is more like gasoline and there are repackaging/resale rules on gas for very good reasons.

A simple call to the mfg of the powder should get you the distributor's name.
Ask the Mfg if it's OK to repackage locally and let them fight the fight.

It's a bad trick to pull and the retailer should get dinged for it.

[Clay M]

$30 a pound is pretty typical..however, I would never buy repackaged powder..I am even nervous buying opened powder from a friend..
My x brother- in- law said he forgot whether he had W748 or W 296 in the hopper one time..
I am thinking so what did you do,flip a coin??

[jcwit]

Just a thought. Most if not all prescriptions are repackaged.

[Clay M]

Just a thought. Most if not all prescriptions are repackaged.
Yeah by a pharmacist or a tech..I don't 100% trust that either..I know what my drugs are and what the look like..
Anyone that would repackage powder is opening themselves up for a huge liability problem..

Exactly why I will not load ammo for someone else..besides my son or immediate family.
Likewise,I never shoot (most peoples) hand loads either..No atomic load in my guns..

[jonp]

He is not a crook. He obviously thinks he has 'tards for customers that will buy powder in a ziploc bag. If you do, you are.

[Blacksmith]

We are still waiting for the first person to post a reference to the actual law that says this is illegal.

[butch2570]

We are still waiting for the first person to post a reference to the actual law that says this is illegal. Read post 100 please.

[jcwit]

This applies to commercial sellers whether they be wholesale or retail. They are Regs. and little else. Then we fall into state fire regs. which also are not "laws".

[jcwit]

We are still waiting for the first person to post a reference to the actual law that says this is illegal.

It's not!

[geargnasher]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?269422-General-post-to-the-members

I get wound up tight too and go off sometimes, but having read the entirety of this thread just now (except for the multitude of posts from several who still reside with Frank), all I can say is WOW.

Gear

[jcwit]

I have not used any cuss words or any disguised as such.

I only believe there is nothing wrong with what the retailer did in this case. And I will stick to that believe till I am shown laws, not regs., proving otherwise.

I see nothing wrong with the above.

[dtknowles]

I think the only thing the Retailer did wrong is tell the OP what he did.

Tim

[geargnasher]

jcwit, there's an actual rule, in the SASS, called "The spirit of the Game".......

Gear

[jcwit]

jcwit, there's an actual rule, in the SASS, called "The spirit of the Game".......

Gear

And?????????????????????

I'm missing it. Catch your reply tomorrow, headed to the blankets!

Good Night.

[Recluse]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?269422-General-post-to-the-members

I get wound up tight too and go off sometimes, but having read the entirety of this thread just now (except for the multitude of posts from several who still reside with Frank), all I can say is WOW.

Gear

Agreed, and I'm rather (unpleasantly) surprised by the number of members who want more nanny government overseeing virtually every move we make in our casting and reloading hobby.

I've known the guy who runs a LGS I frequent for over twenty years. If he showed me some ziploc bags of powder and told me they were Bullseye or W231 or whatever and nothing about the powder disagreed, and he told me the original keg had been damaged in transit or that he'd opened it to reload or whatever, I'd have exactly zero concern buying the powder from him.

If I was at some gunshow and saw someone I'd never dealt with before and did not know selling powder out of a ziploc bag, he couldn't give it to me.

Supply and demand. Risk and aversion. Opportunity and chance. Mandate and choice. If one doesn't want to purchase smokeless powder taken from eight-pound kegs and put into one-pound containers, just as there is no law that says you MUST purchase it, there should not be a law that says you can not purchase it that way.

:coffee:

[.30-06 fan]

as far as i know, the US has a capitalistic economy, not a socialist one.

whatever the market can bare.

that said i would not purchase because of safety reasons.

[sparky45]

I don't think you're up to date .30-06; we've been Socialist for 6 years now.

[.30-06 fan]

I don't think you're up to date .30-06; we've been Socialist for 6 years now.


ok ..... point taken.