Quasi-equivalent to OLD Dupont powder?

[Cowboy_Dan]

You may have seen some of the other threads I've posted on bringing a Winchester '94 born in 1897 back to life. At this point, I have determined that she is safe to shoot, so I am begining to think about putting some loads together. Someone has suggested to me that if I use a [I would think slightly] slower powder than was used in those days it would be easier on the barrel.

Fast forward through some research, and we find:

"Winchester lab. records from 1895 indicate that 30 grs. of DuPont .30 Caliber Smokeless Powder was used in the early loadings" (http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm).

So, does anyone have any info as to what Dupont .30 Caliber powder is like from these days? My first guess would be IMR 3031, but I have little to base that on except that it is one of the usual suspects for the .30-30. Of course it probably doesn't have a true equivalent today, but no matter because I am looking for just a tad slower. Thanks in advance.

[Outpost75]

With cast gaschecked bullets in the 160-170 grain range, I've had good results in my various. 30-30s using 30 grains of either IMR or H4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget. Very little difference.

[wiljen]

20gr of AA 5744 behind the 31141 makes a nice mild load (about 30k psi and 1800fps) if you are trying to be gentle with the old girl. I've also had a lot of fun with the little 115gr RCBS Carbine bullet and about 7gr of Red Dot. This one the kids call the big 22LR because it sounds and recoils like one. Great plinker and below 20K PSI.

[madsenshooter]

I have noticed in older cartridges, like the 30 Remington, that the ammo companies switched from 3031 in later production to ball powders, like Winchester 760, to make sure the old cartridges stayed low pressure. (Note: Newest production appears to be loaded with something that looks like Superformance or Leverevolution, it's blended) It's likely that the switch was for other reasons, better flow through the measures, etc, but the end result was "you can't stuff enough of this powder in the case to go overpressure.

[Cowboy_Dan]

Thanks for the replies so far. I do intend to use a 311041 so I'll look at some powders that speed. Also did some more research and came up with Hercules Lightning. It was discontinued after WWII, but dates back to a year after this rifle was built. Maybe someone has a burn rate chart that lists it to give me an idea of where it would land on current ones if it still existed. I can't seem to find any charts older than the '90's, so old powders aren't listed. Thanks again.

[wiljen]

Lyman #37 from 1950 lists the following for lightning


30-30 WCF
308291 21grs./1850E fps
jacketed 170gr. bullet 23.6grs/2000 fps

35 Rem.
jacketed 150gr bullet 28.0grs/2045 fps
jacketed 200gr bullet 26.0grs/1800 fps 30.2grs/2000 fps
358315 29.2grs/2040 fps max.

That should give you something to compare to current offerings to see what burnrate matches up.

[Outpost75]

Lightning was double-base and erosive at higher pressures. Burning rate compared to SR4759, but you are much better off using a slower powder like 4064 or RL15 which will let you fill the case, and get full velocity at lower pressure.

[madsenshooter]

WA30 was Lightning with a different cut, I've read. Though it was made by Lafflin and Rand, that was before Dupont's near monopoly was broken up and Hercules formed. It was faster than 4895, so your idea that 3031 would be close is right. AA2015 would be a candidate for you too. However, I'm with outpost, slower would be better. My Remington 14 is only a few years younger than your 94! Northern Indiana, I used to live just a few miles from Young's Longshot. I was out driving around one day and noticed the wind flags. Hmm, gotta stop and check this out. I miss having that 1000yd range to play on!

[Cowboy_Dan]

Thanks everyone, this is exactly what I was looking for. Now I just have to wait till it's warm enough to get some casting done. Watch the cast boolits subforum for a results thread this spring.