H&R in .357 Maximum

[three50seven]

Hello all, I've been lurking around here for awhile, and some of you may recognize my username from rugerforum and others. Anyway, i finally decided to join in order to discuss and learn about my new purchase...an H&R rifle in .357 maximum.
I currently load .32 H&R, .38 spl, and .44spl and magnum, almost exclusively with cast boolits. I have read about the maximum before, but have no other experience with it. I plan on handloading for it of course, so what can you good folks tell me about it?

[ballistim]

I've been on the lookout for either a H&R or T/C carbine bbl in .357 Magnum along with plans of chambering it in a bolt or lever. I have a 12" T/C Contender bbl chambered by Mike Bellm & I'd want his chambering/throat design of 357 Maximum in whatever form of long gun I wind up with. 357 Maximum in a rifle is legal to hunt where I live due to a recent law change, and the accuracy of my T/C bbl makes me want to move in that direction. I'm also working on a shortened 45-70 to 1.795" that would also be legal and allow me to hunt with my 1895 Marlin Guide Gun and my H&R Buffalo Classic as well, nice to have options! I've also thought of a shortened 444 Marlin, a lot of thoughts running through my head now that I'm able to have choices beyond straight wall handgun, muzzle loader, and shotgun as I love rifles and previously had to travel to use them for deer hunting seasons.

[three50seven]

The same here, .357 max is a legal deer cartridge. I don't do a lot of deer hunting, but maybe I will enjoy it more if I can work up some nice loads for this new rifle. I don't care for hunting with shotgun, BP, or bow either.

[Nobade]

I have a Handi Rifle that started out as a 357 mag, and I lengthened the chamber for the max case. Once you get to working with it, you'll enjoy it for sure. Easy to get good accuracy from, shoots a wide variety of boolit weights well, and can do it all from backyard mouse loads with a round ball up to 220gr. rifle boolits at almost 35 remington factory speeds. It can also digest a very wide variety of gunpowder, both smokeless and black. Quite a useful thing to have if you can find brass. Thankfully that seems to last forever, and you almost never need to resize it.

-Nobade

[three50seven]

Thanks for the info Nobade, I was hoping I would be able to try a wide variety of boolit weights. I think it would make a fine coyote rifle if I can get a light, fast bullet to print accurately enough.

[timspawn]

My Handi was chambered by David White. It looks like it is going to be a good shooter with 190's.

[ballistim]

My Handi was chambered by David White. It looks like it is going to be a good shooter with 190's.

I'll be using the NOE 360-200 (RCBS copy) for deer hunting, and of course all the other 35 caliber pistol cast bullets for fun.

[timspawn]

I believe this is a Ranch Dog design, I am using 2400 powder and rifle primers.

[GhostHawk]

Just got my H&R .357 mag, on the fence about if I should go max or not.

Con's being mostly additional brass cost.

I am to shoot some stuff with at various ranges before I decide.

At this point I'm loading both .38 special's and .357's with the Lee 358 158 gr TL design.
Using red dot for powder and happy with it so far.

I've only had one short range session with it so far, but it is showing promise.

[jeff223]

I have a 15 inch SSK 357max barrel on a TC g2 and it shoots 190 grain Ranch Dogs very good and they kill deer as fast as anything out there.I can break 2000 fps with that boolit out of the 15 inch barrel.

I just rechambered a 357mag Handy Rifle to 357max last week but its been to dam cold out to shoot it at the range.That barrel is a 20 incher and I see no reason why it wont shoot as good as my pistol

get your self some W296 and some small rifle primers and go to town.I hope you have some brass as its hard to find from time to time

the 357max is an awesome deer hunting caliber

[three50seven]

I believe this is a Ranch Dog design, I am using 2400 powder and rifle primers.
I really like the looks of that bullet! I have 2400 on hand right now, would like to pick up some W296 as well.

[ubetcha]

I think we need more people to call Starline about starting to make 357 Max brass. I have heard that they had made their last run of 360DW brass also, so producing the Max would be a great replacement. I think Mike Bellm stated on his web site that the 357Max is to good of a caliber to let die and encourages people to inform component manufactures to continue producing Max supplies. I have a T/C 12" 357mag bbl that I had Bellm rechamber to Max. Still working loads, and it's to dang cold here too

[NavyVet1959]

I've been looking for an H&R in .357 mag so I could convert it to .357 max. No such luck. Also, H&R does not have any of the .357 mag barrels in stock and they are discontinuing the barrel accessory program, so it's not like I can buy something in another caliber and just get them to fit a .357 barrel to it. I was hoping to get an H&R with a .357 barrel and a 12-gauge rifled ("Ultra-Slug") barrel.

[curator]

Many of the Handi-guys have re-chambered their .357 barrels to .357 Max because the Handi .357 Mag chamber has a very long throat which is not conducive to boolit shooting. These barrels do appear on various auction sites and also on GBO forum but sell quickly. It is possible to get excellent accuracy using boolits in the original Handi 357 barrels by using heavier (180-220 grain) slugs and seating them way out. From what I have heard (internet gossip so you know it has to be true) Starline intends on running a batch of .360 Dan Wesson brass this spring. Supposedly these slightly longer cases can be used in a standard Handi .357 Mag chamber to get boolits closer to the rifling without (much) trimming or the need to rechamber.

[GhostHawk]

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-classifieds/hr-357-handi-rifle-for-sale/

GBO forums are IMO the best, most active source for handi information.
They have collected a pretty good community over there.
As a result the Handi rifle classifieds are a good spot to watch.

I personally think that particular .357 is over priced.

There are several online retailers who still have stocks of guns for sale.
Buds gun shop is one such.


I've been looking for an H&R in .357 mag so I could convert it to .357 max. No such luck. Also, H&R does not have any of the .357 mag barrels in stock and they are discontinuing the barrel accessory program, so it's not like I can buy something in another caliber and just get them to fit a .357 barrel to it. I was hoping to get an H&R with a .357 barrel and a 12-gauge rifled ("Ultra-Slug") barrel.

[NavyVet1959]

According to H&R, you can't just take a barrel from one of their rifles and put it on another, it has to be *fitted*. That really puts a crimp in the aftermarket barrels for them. With the Thompson Contenders / Encores, you can buy plenty of aftermarket barrels and be sure of them fitting your firearm. I wonder if that is because of variations in the H&R design or manufacturing over the years or lack of consistency in manufacturing.

[three50seven]

According to H&R, you can't just take a barrel from one of their rifles and put it on another, it has to be *fitted*. That really puts a crimp in the aftermarket barrels for them. With the Thompson Contenders / Encores, you can buy plenty of aftermarket barrels and be sure of them fitting your firearm. I wonder if that is because of variations in the H&R design or manufacturing over the years or lack of consistency in manufacturing.
The rifle I purchased is actually "fitted" to a model 158 shotgun receiver....

[NavyVet1959]

The rifle I purchased is actually "fitted" to a model 158 shotgun receiver....

Yeah, that's another of the strange things at H&R -- the .357 and .44 barrels come on the SB1 frames which is also used for the shotguns. It's the solid frame.

http://www.hr1871.com/Images/frames.png

From a recoil standpoint, there's no reason why they would have needed one frame or the other, so I wonder what was their reasoning on that decision.

[curator]

The SB-1 frame is reputed to be simple cast iron. The SB-2 frame is supposed to be heat-treated steel. "Most" Handi barrels will interchange with frames made in the past 15 years or so, but not all. Apparently there is a issue of mechanical tolerances from the factory. I have bought at least 5 "yard sale" Handi barrels and they all fit nicely without any slop on my three Handi SB-2 frames. YMMV. They are nice guns but their going out of production means they won't be honoring their "life-time" guarantee purchased from NEF or H&R1878. I had returned my oldest Handi a few years ago for hammer block issues and found that the repair was a common one as they do wear out. Firing pins break if you dry fire them too.

[wgr]

the max. is a real whitetail killer, have shot a coycote or two also.would like to find a mold that cast a 180 grain boolit for it.

[Tenbender]

I have a 10 Contender 357 Max and I have killed deer as far as 197 yards ! Excellent round. I use Remington 180 gr hollow point pistol bullet's. Don't use the Hornady 180 gr singles shot pistol bullet unless your using a carbine. The short barrel's don't develop enough speed for expansion.
I'm new to casting but I plan on trying some cast in the Max. I agree with Jeff223. Awesome !

[jaysouth]

I have a Handi done up by David White of D&T. It is an MOA shooter with jacketed bullets. I have not yet found a cast load that realizes the potential of this fine cartridge. The Hornady 3505 180 gr. SSP at 2,000+fps is a bang flop load. Mr. White has volunteered to re-cut the chamber so it will be a better cast bullet gun, for free. It speaks well for D&Ts customer service philosopy.

[jmort]

"I have a Handi done up by David White of D&T."

That was a good thing to do. He is a master.

[three50seven]

Here's the rifle I traded in to. The barrel is marked "H&R .357 Max" so I assume it's factory chambered to that?? It came with a straight grip wood stock and forearm, the Choate stocks arrived today from Midway. I threw a Simmons 3-9x on it for now, but I don't know how much I like it.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/13/69126f634838c33c23fab03a3e34bf6d.jpg

[jeff223]

Nice I hope she shoots good for you

[BAGTIC]

Most H&R .357 Magnums have an overly long throat. By seating the bullets out far enough to tale advantage of the extra length one can get fairly close to .357 Maximum performance with many bullets.

I have 357 Maximum in H&R and Ruger single shots. They are great gun to shoot. The special rifle chambering reamer make a big difference. They are available for rent on GBO forum.

[BAGTIC]

IIRC the GBO site has instructions on how 'to fit' the barrels yourself. Years ago H&R wrote me that the alloy was the same but only the SB2 was heat treated.

Let's hope that Remington revives the H&R line once they are moved into their new factory. Modernized CNC machinery should make it possible to hold tolerances close enough to make interchangeability possibility. It might also make possible to switch to a monoblock construction with an integral machined under lug instead of the welded/brazed ones they have used in the past.

My suggestions are for them to drop the SB1 action and use the SB2 and its smaller firing pin standard for all guns. End the confusion about what actions and barrels are interchangeable. Personally, I wish someone made unchambered barrels available to gunsmiths, 'Gunsmith Specials', for custom chambers. Of course this would unlikely be practical retroactively

[jeff223]

Do all of you cast your own boolits for the 357max?
If not what are you shooting out of them?Most places are out of the 158 grain and heaier jacketed bullets.

I like the 190 grain Ranch Dogs but i also like to have some 180 grain xtps on hand too

[wlc]

Jeff, I use my Max for a bit different end product than most. I load heavy cast bullets in it subsonic so I can kill those menacing tin cans quietly with my suppressor. I got Tom at Accurate to cut me a 4 cavity mold with two different bullet designs in it. One is a 250 grainer the other a 300 grain bullet. Those long bullets take up some room in the casing but the longer case of the Max leaves plenty of powder room. Big slap when they hit my plywood target backer and the bank behind. I haven't tried to load those fast, but I bet they would be a bang flop on deer if loaded to faster speeds. Your barrel twist rate will dictate how heavy (long actually) of a bullet you can use. I imagine with a factory (IIRC) 16 twist you would still be able to use my 250 grainers IF loaded faster than I do, but 200's and probably 225gr should be no problem. My barrel was spec'd out with a 12 twist when I had MGM make it just so I could shoot the heavier bullets subsonic.

[Artful]

I load heavy cast bullets in it subsonic so I can kill those menacing tin cans quietly with my suppressor. I got Tom at Accurate to cut me a 4 cavity mold with two different bullet designs in it. One is a 250 grainer the other a 300 grain bullet.

Oh, Video or Pictures would be nice - Please :oops:

[GhostHawk]

So far I've had very good luck shooting the Lee .358 158gr mine is a round nose tumble lube design.

My only complaint is that Lee does not seem to go bigger than 158 gr in .357.

At this point I'm really not interested in spending 90$ or more for a mold I may use only seldom.
Tempting to buy a cheap Lee wadcutter in 148 grain and see if I can't extend the nose enough to get up into the 180-200 grain size.
My Handi like most has a very long chamber and lead in, as far as I can see it would chamber a .357 max without the reamer. Certainly would do the .360 DW brass with room to spare.

[three50seven]

I have a local company, who I get all my boolits from, making me some 200gr hard cast.

[wlc]

Oh, Video or Pictures would be nice - Please :oops:
No video, but I'll se what I can do with some pics in the next day or two.