Grandpa's krag carbine

[jugulater]

I recently got this Krag carbine from a relative. it has been in the family for many many years. it was bought in the 1930s and used on and off as a hunting rifle. it is not an original carbine and was professionally modified (DCM carbine style) and most likely refinished. the gun is generally in amazing shape but upon inspection of the bore i notice a very slight grey area. slugging the barrel confirmed my fear, the barrel has a slight bulge 4in from the muzzle. i have shot this gun before and i am extremely surprised that it has a bulge. it will consistently hit coffee cans off the 100 yard berm. my question is, is this old timer safe to fire?

[Scharfschuetze]

Nice lookin' rifle. I hope that swell in the barrel doesn't mar its accuracy. We'll look forward to a full range report soon.

Lots of us shoot our Krags without issues. My favorite load pushes a 208 grain 314299 boolit at 1,800 fps and my 1898 gobbles 'em up like candy and spits 'em out at about 2 MOA.

The biggest safety issue with Krags is the single locking lug and the way the metal was hardened at Springfield Armory during heat treating. Check the locking lug for a crack as in the photo below. The cracks started showing up in Krags when the Army adopted a high velocity load (220 grain RNFJM at 2,200 fps). Once the issue was noted, the Army returned to the original Krag load.

[jugulater]

I just checked the bolt and there is no crack visible, even under a magnifying glass. it locks up tight and shells fired in it show no signs of headspace issues.

The rifle slugs at slightly over .309. the bore is shiney clean besides the bulge. i feel confident that i can get atleast some form of accuracy from it. i will follow up with a range report. all i have for .30 cal bullet moulds is a Lee .309 210 grain bullet mould that throws bullets at ~.314, it works great in my .30 cal guns. My 1891 mauser loves it.

[Multigunner]

A slight bulge that far up the bore and that far from the muzzle shouldn't present any real problems, though faster burning powders like 4198 might be best so the pressure peaks long before the bullet reaches the bulged area.

[jugulater]

it will be on a strict diet of fast powders and cast boolits. that was the plan before i even found the bulge. if i wanted to get the snot kicked out of me i would shoot surplus ammo out of my Mosin

[Rustyleee]

That is a nice looking rifle.

[tdoyka]

thats a realy nice lookin gun. too bad about the bore, but i would shoot it!!!

[jugulater]

the gun looks like it sat in a air sealed container packed with grease for 80 years. no pitting or rust. all of the blue remains. but it is a modified carbine so it has little collector value. the bulge is odd considering it has never been fired with reloads and the bore is next to perfect (besides the bulge). i really love this gun and was upset when I noticed the grey area in the bore.

[Gtek]

35 Krag?

[jugulater]

30-40 Krag. also know as .30 Gov't and .30 Army

[tdoyka]

tomorrow i get to shoot my 30-40 krag 1898 spr armory for the first time. my grandpa, dad, and uncle shot it 20+ years ago. this is the first time it will also shoot cast. after cleaning, slugging, and cleaning it:veryconfu, i can't wait. did i mention cleaning it:shock:.

i wouldn't worry about the bulge or the grey area. if it can hit a coffee can it can hit a deer!!!

[tdoyka]

if you want to, theres always the civillans marksmanship program to buy a new barrel.
https://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=catalogList&cat=BAR

[jugulater]

wow thats cool that they still make barrels for these old guns. i dont want to replace it though. i dont doubt its ability to hit a deer at 100 yards. i think this old timer took its last deer many many years ago. ive shot some old factory stuff my uncle had out of it and it shot extremely well. the American Krag is a very nice handling gun, although it wasn't the best military rifle.

[303Guy]

30-40 Krag. also know as .30 Gov't and .30 ArmyWhat Gtek meant was rebore to 35 Krag. That would be a fine calibre for hunting and cast although it is a near perfect calibre for cast as it is.


the gun looks like it sat in a air sealed container packed with grease for 80 years.Exactly. That bulge is just part of its character. It's a fine rifle with a history. If the bulge causes any problems with cast there is the option to use a fibrous case filler to prevent gas leakage at the point. Shot buffer should/might work too. Enjoy that rifle as it is. It's a great acquisition.

[tdoyka]

i handload, so i haven't really looked at the price of ammo. however, i was at gander mtn about a month ago and they had a whole rack of 30-40 krag ammo. i think it was remington 180gr round nose for $43 a box. i think i'll wait until the brass comes out. i have around 100pcs and i would like to buy 150-200 more.
i think i would reload it and use cast boolits. oh wait, i do!!!

[Frank46]

Nice Krag carbine. Had a relative up in Pennsylvania that used a full sized rifle for deer. Did have it drilled and tapped for a scope. He passed away some years back and I could never ask his wife if she wanted to sell it. Some years back though did manage to get a nice cut down 1898 krag and did put some of the remington 180 grain ammo through it. Shot very well. This was about the time the "Rough Riders" movie came out and was at the range and got a couple offers to sell it. Didn't have the heart to sell the old girl as I got it at a very good price. Time to start slugging the bore and find out what she likes. $43 bucks a box, man they are sure proud of their ammo. Think when I bought mine it was less than $20 a box. Frank

[tdoyka]

i have a box of western super x in a white box(winchester) and the sticker says $11.80.
they are 180gr power point(sp), there are a few left.

[jugulater]

the box i shot up was an older box of winchester shells. either my grandfather or my father decided to start saving all the 30-40 brass they could find cause i got a box of atleast 200 pieces with the gun, all mixed headstamp, some of it is pretty old. factory ammo prices continue to increase. the price of .22s is ridiculous in some places.

130348130349

got plenty of brass, and a Brand New set of Lee dies ( sorry about the sideways pics)

[13Echo]

Krag chambers tend to be large. Full length resizing can result in short case life with head separation just like the British .303. If you can, get a .30cal neck sizer or only partially resize with the full length dies.

I think you'll find the Krag case is near perfect for cast bullets with just the right capacity and a nice long neck.

Jerry Liles

[Denny303]

can make the brass from .303s albut a hair short, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?89392-30-40-Krag-from-303-Brit

[Char-Gar]

Following WWI, Krag rifles were sold off by the government for $1.50 each. Many, many of them were purchased and modified as your has been. There are still many of them out there on the used market. I have two such modified Krags. Yours looks like an excellent example. The front sight band and sight are from a 1903 Springfield. Your rifle has been reblued at some point in it's life.

I killed my first deer with such a modified Krag in 1960 and I still have the rifle. I paid the huge sum of $15.00 for it from an old Dentist who had given up hunting. For grins below is a pic.

The only cast bullets tip I can give you is these rifles have large throat and give their best cast bullet accuracy with long heavy 200 grain plus cast bullets sized .312 - .313.

Best of luck with this fine old family heirloom.

[Reaper]

I'd be inclined to shoot it with the bulged barrel. If the bulge is minor, it may even improve accuracy. Before the flame war begins, let me give a for instance. One of my 1911's is a parts gun (Essex frame, US&S slide, WWII barrel, G.I. mags). Shooting some handloads, I fired a round into a squib. Thought I saw dirt fly behind the backer. Result, bulged barrel with slide stuck open. Took the pistol to Bill Simpson at Poway Gunworks. May he R.I.P. Bill drove the slide back to battery with a leather mallet. Put the barrel in the lathe and turned down the bulge to original diameter. put the gun back together and told me to go shoot it. He said that in his time as an armorer with the Navy Marksmanship Unit that these reworked barrels would deliver acceptable to superior accuracy. He couldn't say why, but he was right. The accuracy my pistol was as good or better than pre-bulge. Since then, two shooters have brought me their 1911's, one Taurus and one Colt, with the slides stuck open. Drove the slides back with a leather mallet and told the to have the bulge turned down. Both are still using those barrels today. Just sayin.................

[4570guy]

I neck size my Krag brass using a Lee 303 Brit neck size die. This works fine in my Krag with a .312 bore.

[303Guy]

If the bulge is minor, it may even improve accuracy.That's what I like to hear! I'm kinda betting it will shoot just fine.:Fire:

I'm looking forward to range reports.

Great looking rifle there, Char-Gar.

[WineMan]

I second the FL = Short case life. Had a Rifle Sporter and was given a bunch of reloads. When I FL sized them, about 25-30% had head separations. Some of the brass was pretty old FA04 and FA06. Shoot them once and NS them after that. I checked the headspace and it was greater than Field, I think 0.074"

Dave

[madsenshooter]

Greater than field often comes from someone lapping the lug so that the guide rib bears on the receiver too. Friend of mine was taking a gunsmithing course and did that to a new bolt body. Checked the headspace and decided to get another bolt body, no lapping this time.

[jugulater]

me and the Krag took a trip to the range today.i was shooting .312 diameter boolits over 17 grains of IMR 4227. the bullets were gas checked. I felt like everything was going ok, then i checked the target to measure my groups, and found that every round was keyholeing. From the research ive done my next step will be to use bullets that fill the throat. any other suggestions/ideas?

130912

[madsenshooter]

Hmm, that does not bode well, not a good start to your personal "battle of the bulge". Could be gas cutting while the bullet is traveling through the bulge. How's the bore look on the far side of the bulge? Sizing bigger isn't going to help, the barrel is still going to squeeze them down before they get to the bulge. Maybe a jacketed bullet proposition for you without rebarreling, but don't give up yet. I doubt it has a rough throat, or you'd have already mentioned it, but one of mine had a very rough throat, likely didn't get cleaned after shooting corrosive blanks. Alloy was sticking there and subsequent shots stuck more. They were getting hard to chamber and after five I stopped to take a look see. I pulled a big ring of alloy out of the throat with a brush. With each shot the bullets were getting a wee bit smaller before heading down the pipe. Polished the throat with a stainless steel brush to remove the roughness and it works ok now. How rough was it? Rough enough to snag a patch and make it very hard to push further.

[jugulater]

the throat is clean and smooth. not ate up or corroded. the barrel is clean and shiny on both sides of the bulge. such a shame that it is bulged, it would have been a nice barrel otherwise. ill try some jacketed bullets to see if that makes things better. if she still proves to be inaccurate i might as well rebarrel it. i would much rather pass on a shooter than a wallhanger.

[gnoahhh]

Yeah, new Criterion barrels are cheap enough to not make fooling with a cantankerous original barrel worthwhile. Save the old one for posterity since it came off of your heirloom. I doubt Granddad would criticize you for improving his treasured rifle. He would've probably done it himself if he had the wherewithal.

[skeet1]

jugulater (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?28443-jugulater)
If you want to shoot this rifle but don't want to change the looks by installing a new barrel, you might consider having the old barrel relined with a new barrel and chambered again to .30-40 Krag. One of our own members here on this form, John Taylor does this kind of work. I have an old 1898 that is desperate need of a barrel and like you I don't want to change the originality of the old barrel. When I get to it I want John to do this to my rifle. http://www.johntaylormachine.com/49.0.html The way I understand it this is not just an ordinary reline job. what is involved is the old barrel is bored out and a new barrel (not just an ordinary liner) installed inside and rechambered. I think this is the best option for an old rifle.

Ken

[John Allen]

I have one of the krag carbines myself. They are just an all around nice rifle.

[Rich/WIS]

If the bore slugs .309 then your bullet diameter is fine as far as bore size goes. What design bullet is it and how well is the bore riding portion supported by the lands. My Krag sporter also has a .309 bore pitted its entire length but it still gives excellent accuracy with the Lyman 311284 and 311041 sized at .309. I could/should size larger but the sizing die was purchased years ago for my 06's and I am too cheap to buy another one. Lyman and Redfield no drill receiver sights turn up on E-bay now and then and are easier on old eyes than the original sights if you plan to shoot it regularly.

[tdoyka]

i think i mentioned this before, a new barrel https://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=catalogList&cat=BAR .
i did not know that skeet1 had another member that could reline the barrel. http://www.johntaylormachine.com/49.0.html
he could be the one to save the original barrel.
you might build a new barrel,(shilen, mgm, douglas...), but i am not sure ?. maybe someone else out there out there knows something. i'm sure somebody with alot more experinece from our members can tell you.

[Kraschenbirn]

My Krag sporter has a Lyman 48 rear sight (pre-1922 mfg, according to Lyman Customer Service) but, otherwise, is pretty much identical to yours and Char-Gars. FWIW, I didn't have any success with 4227 in that rifle...or in my .303 Brits, for that matter. You don't mention what weight boolit you were shooting but as others have already posted, Krags seem to prefer heavier boolits (original gov't load was a jacketed 220-grainer) so, if I were you, I believe I'd tinker with my loads some more before getting serious about relining or rebarreling. My best load, to date, is 36.5 gr. IMR4350 under a Lee 309-200R sized to .312 (mould beagled to drop .313).

Bill

[madsenshooter]

He didn't mention the weight, but the keyhole is pretty long! I would get a Criterion simply because they are made of stronger modern steels. There's no chrome moly in original Krag barrels. I'll be getting one eventually, I managed to ring the chamber on one using Puf-Lon filler.

[Rich/WIS]

Should have mentioned I am using the starting loads of 2400 listed in the old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 16 grs with the 311284 and 17 grs with the 311041. Also tried 121 grs Blue Dot with 311041 and it shot right along with the rest.

[jugulater]

well, i did forget to list my bullet weight. my bullet is a lee 200 grain bullet. it drops at about .312. ive got no clue exactly what model it is because it has no markings. i bought it years ago and have used the mould heavily. if i do rebarrel it will be one of the new barrels from the CMP. Ill shoot it with some other loads, maybe ill get some better results. ive got alot of IMR4350 so ill give that a shot first.

[madsenshooter]

Don't forget the CMP barrel doesn't come with a front sight. Might be able to use the one you got, or S&S has repros of originals.

[303Guy]

I would try a fibrous filler. My choice would be wheat bran. It should seal the bore through the bulge. Worth a try.

[madsenshooter]

Good thought there .303 guy. Anybody got a star gage so he find out how big the bulge is?

[jugulater]

I will try the filler idea. i will follow up with some more load experimentation. worse comes to worse i will rebarrel. The CMP barrels state they are drilled and tapped for sights ,but doesn't mention threads. do these come threaded? or will i be learning how to thread a barrel shank soon?

[JHeath]

Can a bulged barrel be rebored? Wonder if the cutter would drift at the bulge.

[gnoahhh]

Criterion barrels come threaded for your action, with all cuts and sight holes present too. No front sight, but mortise for same is present. The sight holes and sight mortise landed top dead center when I screwed mine on. (Note: the sight screw holes are different than original arsenal holes, on mine anyway. Adjustment regarding screw selection is called for.) Mine was billed as "short chambered" but we found it to be perfect the way it was, no reaming necessary. I probably got lucky, but I heard tell that it isn't uncommon. I wish these things had been available a generation ago when I was frustrated by a dearth of rifles with bad barrels and/or bastard bore dimensions.

[BruceB]

Gnoahh, do you recall the price on that Criterion Krag barrel?

I see they're also producing barrels for the #4 Mk1 Enfield, complete with bayonet lugs at the muzzle. I hope they sell TONS of these new Krag and LE barrels!

[madsenshooter]

The only bad thing with Criterion barrels is that they're not within the rules for CBA competition. I tried to get them to change that, but to no avail. The old timers seem to think that trying to get a shot out barrel to perform is part of the fun! I believe they are threaded at the sight screw holes, but not with the odd Krag thread. Some other common hardware thread. I wish they were really short chambered, cause I have a reamer looks like it was made to cut a throat for a spitzer instead of long roundnose.

[onceabull]

Does someone here know how long the two krag barrels (carbine & Rifle)from CMP are ?? I more than a tad doubtful that the rifle barrels are the full length of the originals,and didn't see that info at the link provided above....Thx, Onceabull

[fgd135]

Fwiw, CMP will rebarrel headspace and install sights on your Krag:
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/custom-gunsmithing/services-for-krag-rifle-and-carbine/
And since their gunsmiths specialize in working on just US military bolt actions, I'll bet they would do a good job of it.
However, no gunsmithing work done right is cheap! I'd continue to work up some more loads before going that route.
I shoot an excellent condition 1896 Krag rifle, with a wonderful sparkling .309" bore; heavy cast boolits with various wts of 2400 (16-22 grains)seem to give me good accuracy. I also shoot very low power loads using reformed .303 brass, 4-6 grains of Unique or Red Dot, and @100 grain plain base rn boolits that I originally cast for use in an M1 carbine. Great 50 yard load, no recoil at all.

[madsenshooter]

Does someone here know how long the two krag barrels (carbine & Rifle)from CMP are ?? I more than a tad doubtful that the rifle barrels are the full length of the originals,and didn't see that info at the link provided above....Thx, Onceabull

They are the same length as originals. For the rifle, that's a real deal, just try pricing a blank that will finish out to 30", then add turning, threading, drilling and tapping sight holes, milling the front sight dovetail.

[jugulater]

Im sold on rebarreling. i may try to shoot it with some other loads, but i am truly sold on rebarreling. im just not sure about how to go about removing a barrel from a krag action. ive rebarreled mausers using the proper vise and action wrench. i assmue i will need a proper setup for the krag as well. The tools i used previously were borrowed from a gunsmith friend who likes to tinker with mausers. is the proper action wrench for the krag action available? maybe i can fabricate my own action wrench? any advice is appreciated.

[gnoahhh]

You definitely need the proper action wrench. Looking at it, one could probably make one with some basic effort. My gunsmith buddy borrowed one from someplace, I don't know where. I know Buckshot here on the forum has made at least one for another member. Perhaps if a few of us chipped in and have him make another one we could use it communally? It is one of those things that is indispensable when you need it, but that need only happens but rarely.

Frankly, even though I undertake a lot of personal gunsmithing tasks in my fairly well equipped shop, I never got into barrel work. Were I to do another Krag I would probably just let the pros at the CMP handle it. They have a 1903A1 of mine as we speak, getting a new Criterion barrel installed.

I too chafe at the ban on Criterion barrels by the CBA for Military Rifle competition, when they're allowed everywhere else for vintage rifle competition. But so it goes. A small matter, really.

[CriterionBarrels]

Does someone here know how long the two krag barrels (carbine & Rifle)from CMP are ?? I more than a tad doubtful that the rifle barrels are the full length of the originals,and didn't see that info at the link provided above....Thx, Onceabull

We offer both 30" and 22" models through the CMP.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Gotta love first hand information :)

[CriterionBarrels]

Gnoahh, do you recall the price on that Criterion Krag barrel?

I see they're also producing barrels for the #4 Mk1 Enfield, complete with bayonet lugs at the muzzle. I hope they sell TONS of these new Krag and LE barrels!

The CMP is selling them for $199.95. We hope we sell a ton of those No4 barrels too!

[CriterionBarrels]

Gotta love first hand information :)

Glad I could be of assistance! :D