Help Wanted! New 9mm/38Super Heavy Weight Cast Bullet Design

[DR Owl Creek]

Several of us have been working on a new heavy weight 9mm/38Super cast bullet design on the NOE Forum. Frank Elliott/ELCO (frnkeore on this forum) has been doing the actual design work on the bullet. The intention is to design the best cast bullet possible for IDPA, USPSA, IPSC, etc., competition, as well as for defensive use.

Frank has done a number of revisions to his design so far. What we have now is a bullet that would cast at 150gr as a flat point, and 147gr as a hollow point, with wheel weight alloy. We think it looks really good!

Two suggestions have been made for changes to the bullet design:
1. To lighten the bullet to about 147gr as a flat point, and about 140gr as a hollow point; and,
2. To lengthen the front driving band by 0.050".

We want to design the best heavy weight 9mm/38 Super bullet out there. We need your input now to help determine which way to go. To join in the discussion, go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,597.0.html

Thanks,

Dave

[geargnasher]

Based on my results with a variety of .45 ACP and .45 Colt bullets, my determination was that two small, radiussed lube grooves had a slight accuracy edge over the single groove designs. Might take that into consideration. The TC nose is a good idea, I have a Bar-Sto .38 Super barrel that came with a pretty abrupt throat and I think that is pretty common. 150-ish is a really good weight for that caliber, but that's all the input I can give you.

Gear

[Outpost75]

My buddies in Italy are using Accurate's 36-155D in the 9x21, 9mm Largo, .38 Colt and Super Autos and in 9mm Parabellum. They are using wheelweights and charge of N320 or Yellow Granular Cheddit to give 900 fps.

I use it in the .360 No.5 Rook, .38 S&W and New Police, 9mm for Ruger revolvers and .38 Special. You can order it in smaller diameters than shown on the drawing. The Europeans are ordering with .358 driving bands and .357 bore-riding nose with negative tolerance for use in the CIP chambers.

130093

[DR Owl Creek]

Gear,

Thanks for bringing up the idea of using two small lube grooves, instead of just one in 38 Super. That kind of info is what we're looking for. It would be great if you would join in the discussion on the NOE Forum, and offer that advise over there.


Outpost,

Thanks also for bringing up the Accurate 155gr design. I believe that's the same one that Ed Harris and Giorgio from the CBA Forum recommended too. I doubt, however, that Al at NOE would want to do a design that was a copy of an existing Accurate design. Please go to the NOE Forum and offer your suggestions over there too. We could still use certain design elements from that in out new bullet.

Both of you, please go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,597.0.html

Thanks,

Dave

[yovinny]

No expert here and I cant add much, except to say.
My supers would be much happier if they just had a new NOE in Ranchdog checked 135gr.

Cheers, YV

[DR Owl Creek]

No expert here and I cant add much, except to say.
My supers would be much happier if they just had a new NOE in Ranchdog checked 135gr.

Cheers, YV

YV,

There's a Discussion Thread going on now at the NOE Forum for the Ranch Dog TLC 357 135gr RF-GC. You can join in on that one at: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,26.0.html

Dave

[DR Owl Creek]

The discussion for the new NOE 358 155gr TC (ELCO) has gone to an Active Group Buy. The final version, as designed by Frank Elliott/ELCO, will cast at .358" with wheel weight alloy at 155gr as a flat point, and 147gr as a hollow point.

The mould will be available in 2 cavity, 4 cavity, and 5 cavity versions, in both aluminum and brass. It will be available in both flat point and hollow point versions. Lyman/RCBS and SAECO style top punches will be available too.

Only a minimum of 10 people will have to sign-up to send the mould to production. Everyone signing up for the Group Buy will receive a 15% discount from the catalog price too. What's not to like?

To sign-up for the Active Group Buy, go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Thanks,

Dave

[jmort]

"What's not to like?"

I am signing up. Great design. Subsonic heavyweight with good-sized meplat. Just what I was looking for. Thank you for all you efforts to get this done.

[Sgtonory]

I signed up. My name is Doug and I am addicted to buying bullet molds.

[frnkeore]

I signed up. My name is Doug and I am addicted to buying bullet molds.

Oh my, a man after my own heart :)

My name is,
Frank

[DR Owl Creek]

I signed up. My name is Doug and I am addicted to buying bullet molds.

Doug,

My name is Dave. I'm really trying to quit too, but Al keeps making me buy more...

Dave

[MtGun44]

Lengthen a Lee 356-120 TC by 0.090" in the cylindrical portion, which should
change weight from 124 to 147gr. Nose is a real reliable feeder and
is more likely to work with tight or non-existent throats of many 9mms
than a round nose. Keep the single lube groove and center it in the
cylindrical portion.

Bill

[docmagnum357]

O.K. Kind of ignorant here. What is "RG"?

[dragon813gt]

O.K. Kind of ignorant here. What is "RG"?

Hollow point mold.

[docmagnum357]

Do you guys think this would feed in about anything? I do CCHP classes. Log story, but I am fixing to get a manufacture's license. I think I can sell good hand loads to students.I have to have a 9mm boolit that will feed in about anything. Also, how aggravating is this type old to cast HPs with?

[docmagnum357]

Lengthen a Lee 356-120 TC by 0.090" in the cylindrical portion, which should
change weight from 124 to 147gr. Nose is a real reliable feeder and
is more likely to work with tight or non-existent throats of many 9mms
than a round nose. Keep the single lube groove and center it in the
cylindrical portion.

Bill

That is the boolit I use right now. I PC them and get zero leading, and they seem to feed in everything I have tried them in. I do wish I had a longer bearing surface and a little more weight.

[DR Owl Creek]

O.K. Kind of ignorant here. What is "RG"?

Doc,

The "RG" stands for "removable guides", which are the brackets that hold the hollow point pins in place on the bottom of the mould. This link will explain it better than I can:
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,199.0.html

Dave

[DR Owl Creek]

Do you guys think this would feed in about anything? ...

Doc,

The idea behind the NOE 358 155gr TC (ELCO) was to try to design the best specialized heavy weight, subsonic bullet we could come up with for semi-auto 9mm/38 Super chambered guns. The intention was to have a bullet that would work in most SAAMI spec guns for IDPA, IPSC, etc., competition, as well as for personal defense.

Frank Elliott/ELCO designed the bullet. Frank designed the nose portion of the bullet with a 2 degree taper to match the 2 degree lead in a SAAMI spec 9mm chamber/throat. The NOE 358 155gr TC bullet should fit in a SAAMI maximum spec chamber/throat with about .245" to .260" of the bullet base in the 9mm case, at an OAL of about 1.140". Frank checked this dimension with a fired RP 9mm case to be sure.

If the gun in question has a SAAMI spec chamber/throat, it should fit fine. If the gun has a tighter than SAAMI spec chamber/throat, then I don't know how it will fit. Some guns, such as the CZ 75 TS/SP-01 Target and the Springfield XDm, models reportedly may have tighter than SAAMI spec dimensions.

For a more general purpose type bullet, two other NOE designs I really like are the 358 124gr TC-PB, and the 358 135gr FN-PB. These should feed and function in about any 9mm gun. You might also want to consider these.

The NOE 358 124gr TC-PB has based on the RCBS 356 124gr CN (#82027), but the diameter was increased from .356" to .358" when cast with wheel weight alloy, and the nose was tweaked to help insure reliable feeding in most guns. This one is available in both standard and hollow point versions. See: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=1048&osCsid=cfoskrvi3ucpghc3ifclvs3va2

The NOE 358 135gr FN-PB is another really good design in terms of accuracy and feeding. I can't tell you, however, about the design history of this one. It's also available in a hollow point version too. See: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=334&osCsid=cfoskrvi3ucpghc3ifclvs3va2

I hope this helps.

Dave