Buffalo Classic 45-70 Pound Cast

[rosewood]

Ok, guys just did a pound cast. The lands are .456 and the grooves are .452. Does that sound about right? Neck is measuring 0.485. Not real sure where to measure the throat at. The area I think is the throat is rounded from the case to where the rifling picks up and the rifling seems the same all the way down. Where do I measure for the throat? What size mold should I be using?

Thanks,

Rosewood

130087

[dondiego]

I think that the bore is 0.452 and the groove is 0.456. Seems tight. I haven't done mine yet.

[45 2.1]

The rifle you are using dotes on a very soft 0.462" boolit. Lee has the 405 gr. hollow base which casts that large in those I've tried.... good boolit in these rifles.

[aharlow]

Yep my Browning Winchester 1886 lever action 45-70 slugged out at .456 also. I cast a .457 Lee 405Gr FN with a BHN of 14 and put it over some IMR 3031 and she loves them!

130132

[ballistim]

My BC slugged at .4565, shoots .459 sized Lee 405 gain bullets very accurate & no leading.

[rosewood]

Problem is, I have severe leading using the Lee .457 mold. Did a pound cast to find out what size boolit I need to stop leading.

[ballistim]

What size does it drop from the mold?

[rosewood]

was dropping around .458. I did some honing and have it at about .460-.461 now, but the don't come out very consistent. I want to look into getting a properly fitted expander and sizing die. I am thinking since my current expander was around .456, I should get a properly fitting one. So I want to know what the ideal diameter is for my gun.

[45 2.1]

So I want to know what the ideal diameter is for my gun.

Pick an answer you like or go with this. Hand lube an as cast boolit, reprime a fired case and put 20 gr. of SR 4759 in it, hand seat the lubed boolit and fire. See if you have leading, then dec ide what answer suits..............................

[ballistim]

I'd buy a Lee Lubricating & Sizing Die .459" diameter from Track of the Wolf http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1219/1/LEE-SIZE-459, also bought a Lee Universal Expanding Die & a custom plug Neck Expander Plug .459" diameter from them also http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.asps/1221/1/DIE-459-EXP works great for me, I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die also, PM me if you need any more info.

[runfiverun]

and a few load details would help.
pushing a super soft boolit with a load going too fast too soon will leave some lead behind.

something that might help you envision your boolit shape is to out line that slug on a piece of paper.
then draw that ball seat area following it out to the nose of your slug, you can chop it off anywhere you like along the way and either round it off or flatten the nose.
take some measurements down that rounded area at about .02 increments and write them on the outline.
subtracting the case thickness from your outside measurement then another .001-.002 for boolit release.
[should be @ 459-460 off the top of my head] that will give you a good idea of your drive band diameter.

[runfiverun]

kinda what Bob was saying looks like too he was typing while I was.:lol:

[ballistim]

deleted

[45 2.1]

rosewood-
I've had one of these since they came out. Every one of them I've tested would take a 0.462" boolit in Winchester brass. The boolit I suggested and size diameter as well as the load were the best shooters out of the rifle. Now, you decide what your going to do since that throat slug DOESN'T have a throat, just a steep angle into the rifling from the chamber.

[runfiverun]

exactly what the picture and measurements would show.
you go from that ball seat area right into rifling which would make your nose a bore rider.

[rosewood]

Pick an answer you like or go with this. Hand lube an as cast boolit, reprime a fired case and put 20 gr. of SR 4759 in it, hand seat the lubed boolit and fire. See if you have leading, then dec ide what answer suits..............................

I actually had tried this at first, but the case wouldn't hold the boolit (well, used different powder). I have not tried since I honed the mold.

[rosewood]

I'd buy a Lee Lubricating & Sizing Die .459" diameter from Track of the Wolf http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1219/1/LEE-SIZE-459, also bought a Lee Universal Expanding Die & a custom plug Neck Expander Plug .459" diameter from them also http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.asps/1221/1/DIE-459-EXP works great for me, I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die also, PM me if you need any more info.

Was already looking at this, as a matter of fact, I have 2 items in my cart already. Was trying to make sure I get the best fit parts. I already have a Lee powder thru expander die, the custom neck plug will fit it correct?

[rosewood]

If I can ever get these cast boolits to stop leading in my BC, I have a feeling I am going to burn a lot of gunpowder. It really is a lot of fun to shoot.

[ballistim]

Was already looking at this, as a matter of fact, I have 2 items in my cart already. Was trying to make sure I get the best fit parts. I already have a Lee powder thru expander die, the custom neck plug will fit it correct?

The particular one I mentioned is not powder thru, NOE makes some powder thru plugs now but not that size.

[ballistim]

45 2.1 honchoed a GB that recently closed for a MiHec brass 45-70 hollow base mold that I've just paid & am waiting for to use in my BC & 1895. Usually MiHec posts if there are extras available after the GB orders are filled, so if you're interested subscribe to the thread. I expect this to be a good one!

[cajun shooter]

What lube are you using? I have owned two of the Buffalo Classics and love the rifle. I shoot .459 out of mine or some .458's at times. I'm a BP shooter and use a 1-20 alloy for my bullets.
If you are getting leading in the last part of the barrel then it's a problem with your lube. Later Fairshake

[ballistim]

I'm curious what powder and lube were used, and what alloy. I've used IMR 3031, surplus WC-872, & IMR 4198, all have worked well, have not yet tried the SR.-4759 that 45 2.1 mentioned but I do have it on hand, would be a good choice but is hard to find.

[rosewood]

I have used 10x and imr4227. Straight wheel weights. I use Lee Alox mixed 45 45 10.

[rosewood]

I figured for $20, what the heck bought the Lee 405 HB mold. Cast some last night and they are dropping around .460. Will have to lube and load some up and head to range. I have to say, the hollow base is very different from what I had in mind. I figured it was like the old Mini-ball ammo where the base was cupped and thin around the edges. These boolits have at least a 1/8" rim around the base before you get to the cavity. I think these just might do it. Also got in a .224 mold. Man, after casting a 405 grain boolit and then you cast a 55 grain boolit, you forget where to stop pouring. :)

[ballistim]

Hope it works well for you, let us know how it does.

[rosewood]

Had a difficult time getting the boolits to stay in the unsized cartridge. The boolit would not stay in position without first neck sizing the case. So here is what I came up with.

After Alox 45/45/10 lubing, I sized the boolit using a .460 Lee push through sizer (very little friction). I neck sized the case with a Lyman neck sizer. Then I put the .459 expander plug in the Lee die in the first stage of my Dillon to expand the case. I then used the Dillon powder funnel to charge the case in stage 2. Then seated the boolit in stage 3 and and used the Lee FCD with a very light crimp to knock the bell off in stage 4. Loaded up with Reloader 7 and took to the range. With the regular Lee 405 mold, I still got leading even though I was able to get the boolit a bit larger through honing and beagling. However, with the Lee 405 HB mold, I couldn't see any appreciable leading. I think I have found the ticket. Gonna make up some more boolits and loads and shoot maybe 50 or so next trip and see if this holds true.

Thanks guys,

Rosewood

[ballistim]

Good! Glad to hear it's working out for you, have fun shooting!

[rosewood]

Ended up getting a RCBS 405 grain GC mold and so far, getting 0 leading in the BC and recently got a 45-70 Handi and it is 0 leading with the GC boolit. This makes me a very happy camper. :) I did try the 405HB in the Handi and did get some leading, but not a lot, I think I am going to tinker with the Handi a bit more with the non-GC molds and see what luck I have. I think one of my major problems with leading was using too small of an expander. The larger has helped a ton. The cases were swaging down the boolits.

Thanks for all the help.

Rosewood

[cajun shooter]

Stop using the Lee FCD die and use a Redding crimp die. The Lee FCD has caused many a cast bullet loader problems as they swage the bullet down in the case.
Loading for any SS rifle requires very little crimping, I just take it in enough to smooth out the belling of the case mouth that I did to seat the lead bullet with a slight inward crimping of the case mouth.
If I was you, I would also try using one of the very fine lubes from our own Lars White Label lubes like the Carnauba Red. Later David

[Doc Highwall]

For my single shot rifles I do not remove the bell on the case mouth and it helps center the bullet in the chamber and barrel.

[montana_charlie]

Stop using the Lee FCD die and use a Redding crimp die. The Lee FCD has caused many a cast bullet loader problems as they swage the bullet down in the case.
FCDs for rifle calibers don't do that.

[EDG]

How fast are you going with what alloy?
If you shoot from 1100 FPS to 1300 FPS max you should not get any leading.
I have more than a few 45-70s and none of them lead but I never go very fast either.


If I can ever get these cast boolits to stop leading in my BC, I have a feeling I am going to burn a lot of gunpowder. It really is a lot of fun to shoot.

[rosewood]

Most of what I chronied was between 1500-1600. What powder and load are u using to get 1100-1300?