Stupid, Stupid, Stupid

[Boz330]

Went to a Silhouette match yesterday and the match director shows up with his left hand bandaged. First a little info on this guy. He is a retired Marine Major who went on to get a law degree afterwards. He is also a first generation German close to 80 or maybe in his early 80s. But he never got the Gene that makes Germans good machinist or mechanics. In fact he is as far from mechanically incline as anyone I've ever run across.

He never makes notes on sight settings or ammunition particulars and WILL NOT take advice from anyone. The guy has ruined more beautiful BPCRs than the law allows. HAMMER Mechanic comes as close to describing him as anything else.

To the story. He is checking the rounds that he has loaded for the match by chambering each round to make sure it will seat. He has a lot of trouble at matches with rounds stopping just short of allowing the block to come up. Instead of using a lever block he uses a wood dowel and a plastic hammer to tap (his words) the round home. He has a cleaning rod in the barrel to tap the obstinate tight rounds back out. Well he is using this procedure on a particularly tight round when it goes off. The bullet starts down the barrel but hits the cleaning rod and ejects it across the house. The case comes out the back where his hand along with the dowel and hammer is. It didn't look like his hand was too badly hurt. Fortunately for him he had the rifle lying across his legs so he wasn't directly behind it. The worst damage was apparently to a piece of antique furniture that the cleaning rod hit. The bullet itself was stuck in the barrel. I'm guessing that the cleaning rod acted like an obstruction and slightly bulged the barrel. Not sure where the cartridge case ended up. He took it to a gunsmith who spent 4 hours working on trying to remove the bullet with no luck. There is a new barrel on order. He said that his wife hasn't stopped ******** at him since the incident, imagine that. He has decided not to use a hammer and dowel rod as a seating tool anymore though.

BTW this guy isn't senile he still practices law. I don't know how many times my buddy and I have tried to explain to him case length and bullet seating depth and other common sense reloading practices but it goes in one ear and out the other. [smilie=b:


Bob

[4060MAY]

A guy that I shot BPCR with has WW embedded in the bone on his left had, from doing the same thing...difference was he did it on purpose to drive the bullet into the lands
Fudd's first law of opposition, If you hit something hard enough, it will break

[waksupi]

Holy cow.

[w5pv]

The header said it all

[brstevns]

Like I have said a number of times, ( You can't fix Stupid!)

[Hamish]

"Match Director". ???? (Yeah, I know, it's usually whoever you can get to do it,,,,)

"Dowel and a hammer". ????? Hammer and firing pin?

Sounds like some serious questions need to be discussed.

[oldred]

The header said it all


You beat me to it!

[country gent]

You also have to watch the case pushers as some dont have a cit out relief for the primer and can push directly on the primer. I have seen other use the wood dowel as a "pusher" for stubborn rounds one guy even went so far as to make a wood tool for this od was rim dia and a 1/4" hole drilled in it to not touch primer. Using a impact tool for this just isnt using common sense. He must have really been "tapping" on it to detonate a primer though.

[Boz330]

Sounds like some serious questions need to be discussed.

Not anymore! Even this hard headed German Marine can learn something, although it took a little pain.
I think John Wayne said it best " if you are going to be stupid you better be tough".

Bob

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It is amazing just how many firearms accidents do result in no or very limited injury. But it isn't a thing you would want to count on. Practicing law is not conclusive evidence of non-senility, unless he was always like that. I don't believe a Marine Corps major is immune to constructive criticism, but I expect he gets it from people you don't hear much from. I am reminded of Ronnie Barker the comedian's definition of a practicing homosexual: "One what ain't quite got it right yet."

Something which brings the bullet to a standstill would almost certainly bulge even a thick barrel wall A slight bulge might even be undetectable on the outside. I don't think you could make things any worse by heating the bullet enough to melt it, or melt the core in the unlikely event that it was jacketed. At least this would probably yield a barrel worth relining.

It is a good thing he wasn't using a Martini, which is probably even more efficient at redirecting an escaping case upwards.

[bedbugbilly]

Hmmm . . . sounds to me like the guy needs to find a good lawyer and sue the pants off of the folks who made the rifle, casings, dowel, plastic hammer . . . surely a great "liability case" :-)

Aren't you just glad you weren't around when all of that happened? I hope you all put a lot of room between him and your shooting station. The saying used to be "Physician, heal thyself. . . " . . in his case . . . sounds like it should be "Lawyer, sue thyself . . . ". :-)

Lucky that he wasn't standing in like with the bore . . . .

[Huvius]

OK, now I have some experience reloading and most if my rifles are falling blocks and it has never, ever dawned on me to mallet in my tight fitting cases! Not even primed cases are forced into the chamber.
I guess there is no accounting for stupidity and honestly, I now find myself observing the line at the range before setting up next to someone who appears to be this kind of guy. Doesn't take much observation to get a good idea of who takes shooting as seriously as they should.

[Saltner]

In Italy there is a proverb ...
The mother of stupid is always pregnant and gives birth always so many twins.

[fishhawk]

Well Bob one thing for sure is you can always tell a German ..........(but you can't tell him much) and yes I am German.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Scary! Guy should be banned from the range, has no regard for himself, or his fellow shooters let alone his equment.

KW

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Not anymore! Even this hard headed German Marine can learn something, although it took a little pain.
I think John Wayne said it best " if you are going to be stupid you better be tough".

Bob

Indeed he did, but someone else could have said that being tough is liable to suppress much-needed advice on the stupidity.

The actual incident still begs a few questions. What, for example, stopped the cartridge from chambering effortlessly? If it was neck diameter a force-fit would be dangerous, promoting excessive pressures. If it was the bullet hitting the end of rifling, that is fine in a .22 or other heel-bullet rifle. The block (not, for preference, the blockhead) forces a soft bullet into the rifling. With a large non-heel bullet you risk telescoping it into the powder space, or having the rifling pluck out the bullet, scattering powder into your rifle's internals, when you extract an unfired round. I can't believe a brief movement of the bullet before hitting needs such measures to avoid it.

Townsend Whelen found that tin-plated bullets gave wildly excessive bullet pull tension, as tested by instruments. But this didn't result in drastic overpressure, although having to accelerate a much heavier bullet would have done. Only when enterprising National Match shooters lubricated their bullets with forbidden grease, and it presumably filled the gap between case and chamber necks, did pressures become dangerously high. What I think this proves is that bullets don't actually pull out of the case. Gas expands the neck off the bullet, like blowing into an adhering surgical glove. This would make a case neck forced into a tight chamber neck quite dangerous.

The other question is why a gunsmith couldn't remove the bullet. Even if it couldn't be driven out (suggesting a deep bulge at the actual bullet location, which is unusual but possible), enough heat to melt an ordinary cast bullet wouldn't do a fraction of the harm already done. I have heard of a bullet jacket remaining in a bulge, and being shot through with pretty good accuracy Maybe this happened if the gunsmith drove the rod through the bullet.

[Boz330]

Well Bob one thing for sure is you can always tell a German ..........(but you can't tell him much) and yes I am German.

Lots of German blood in me as well, but I got the mechanical and the common sense Gene. Although my dad would probably take issue with the latter when I was young. Some of my common sense was acquired the hard way.

Bob

[Tackleberry41]

Doesnt take much to be a lawyer. The one my ex picked, simply the first one to show up in a search, was a complete idiot. Its a small town, hard to find any long time locals who dont know all about her. Said something to someone one day about that being her lawyer, they just rolled their eyes. Seems only reason she manages to stay in business at all is her husband is some sort of state senator.

Ranges are full of those of questionable intelligence. Was hanging out where my friend works, girl came in, wanted to rent a gun. Had a state permit, said she knew what she was doing. Didnt even know which way the rounds went in a mag, much less load the pistol. Somebody I knew years ago, forgot his ammo so grabbed some of mine, I tried to say 'no that wont...' already shoved it in, my neck sized hand loads that wouldn't allow the bolt to close so you could fire it. And couldn't get the bolt back. And a former cop, somebody who should know at least a little about guns, gave '9mm' to someone to test fire a gun, couldn't figure out why it jammed. Yea 9mm makarov does start w 9mm vs the vastly more common 9mm luger.

Not sure whats up w Germans. Lots of German blood, worked on every car line made in Germany. They make some very fine products, but always seem to find some way to really screw it up somehow. I was gracious in pointing out to the factory reps who would visit the dealer, there was a reason they lost 2 world wars. That if the old design began leaking oil after 30k miles, maybe some thought into improving the design, vs complaining to me that I fixed to many of them since the new design leaks even faster, and now takes more labor time to fix. Yea that 2 piece timing cover sure was a marvel of engineering, where a 1 piece unit wouldn't leak oil every 15k miles. They came up with all sorts of 'fixes' that never fixed anything, vs just making the cover one piece.

I really like H&K rifles, but maybe way up by the front sight wasnt the best place to put the cocking handle.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

In my town of 10,000 people three lawyers have been prevented from practicing in the last few years, that I know of. German blood includes every drop of my wife's, and the family have been agin every government since Frederick the Great. I suppose we should credit Germans with the courage of their convictions, said to be a virtue. But when a plan weeks or years in the making breaks down, the Germans are prone to run around in ever decreasing circles, or defend with their lives their belief that the Emperor does have clothes. The British will say amid götterdamerung and the Apocalypse combined "Will a new plan by lunch-time be all right?", and it may not be great, but it will do.

[Boz330]

Weeeell they do have some pretty good beers.

Bob

[ColColt]

Weeeell they do have some pretty good beers.

And, the best Schnitzel sandwiches on the planet. Stationed in Hanau for 19 months in the late 60's and nearly lived off those. Wish someone here knew how to make them as good.

[Petrol & Powder]

I admire the Germans and for the most part they do seem to have a mechanical gene but there are always exceptions.
As for the lawyer part, I've met a LOT of well educated people that didn't even have "walking around sense".
Education is valuable but it is FAR from an absolute sign of wisdom.

[flyingmonkey35]

There is book smart and practical smart.

He sounds like a book smart guy.

After that stunt if he isn't banned from competing in the competition or boycott shooting anywhere near him. Loudly.

If he injured some one he would be In a world of trouble.

[country gent]

Maybe make him a lever seater up right to he has it to use. You can say and tell him about "tools" but if he dosnt know what they are then your speaking a forieghn language to him, and german pride may not allow him to admit he dosnt know. I have cut them out of tight grained hard wood for myself and others. I may make some up from aluminum so the handle can be bent to clear the malcomn scopes I use now. As far as banning him if he did this at home is it going to stop him? I doubt the barrel is hurt to bad as pressure with an open breech would flow the patch of least resistence.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The bullet must still be in there for some pretty compelling reason. The breech wasn't open. There was a cartridge seater and fair weight of the shooter's anatomy behind it, and breechblock and spring detract hardly at all from the energy imparted in a blowback automatic. Long ago someone tried (unsuccessfully) to produce a recoiliess artillery piece by projecting a shell forwards and equal weight of lead powder and petroleum jelly backwards. The shell still built up considerable velocity.

He sounds like he may learn to point it at veneered chipboard flatpack furniture the next time. Leaving him only his home to do it in has the significance that nobody else has to be there.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Consider this: if he is not banned, returns, has another stupid incident, hurts some one, this time the club and him both are held liable, because of past history and the club's officials allowing him to continue with such disregard for the other shooters safety. The range officer should of removed him from the line when the hammer and dowel made their first appearance at his bench. Until said person learns how to make ammo fit the rifle they are shooting they should not be allowed to return.

KW

[SSGOldfart]

yep You can't fix Stupid!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Presumably it happened in his home, where the antique furniture is, and they would be condemning him on nothing but his own words. It still happened, still is dangerous, of course. But if they do that, people would just keep quiet about such incidents. The ranges could be full of people who are behaving stupidly on a daily basis, because they are losing their grip, if they ever had a grip. It could be argued that it is better to have everyone informed and aware, ready to dive for cover when the plastic mallet comes out.

Perhaps the best answer would be for some club official etc. to take him aside, where his self-esteem won't be dented, and explain in simple language why he had better not go on doing that. Perhaps they already have.

[georgerkahn]

As a NYS Hunter Safety instructor, I have a small collection of ram-rods accidentally propelled down range. Oops!?! Happy gent sustained no loss of sight or limb, wondering if this incident might be a "wake-up call".
george

[Boz330]

Presumably it happened in his home, where the antique furniture is, and they would be condemning him on nothing but his own words. It still happened, still is dangerous, of course. But if they do that, people would just keep quiet about such incidents. The ranges could be full of people who are behaving stupidly on a daily basis, because they are losing their grip, if they ever had a grip. It could be argued that it is better to have everyone informed and aware, ready to dive for cover when the plastic mallet comes out.

Perhaps the best answer would be for some club official etc. to take him aside, where his self-esteem won't be dented, and explain in simple language why he had better not go on doing that. Perhaps they already have.

It did happen in his home and according to him he won't do that again. One guy brought up the fact that some places don't even allow wood lever devices at their shoots. I have used those but prefer to load my ammunition where thumb pressure alone will seat the round. There is a big difference between applying a consistent force and tapping on the case even with a wood dowel.

As some folks pointed out education doesn't confer common sense. I had 2 girls that worked for me that had graduated from college in their late teens, IQs in the 170 category, neither had the sense to come in out of the rain. We all have met folks that wouldn't know which end of the screwdriver to use.

Bob

[bikerbeans]

Attorneys, doctors and dentists shouldn't be allowed to have firearms. These professionals are equally scarry in the left seat of a private plane.

BB

[Boz330]

Doctors and Beech Bonanzas is a deadly combination for sure.

Bob

[EDG]

Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

[EDG]

I wonder if Austin Hatch thinks the 3rd time is the charm.


Doctors and Beech Bonanzas is a deadly combination for sure.

Bob

[Boz330]

Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

Very true and I've sure exercised both in my years on this planet, but certain things should be self evident.

"I wonder if Austin Hatch thinks the 3rd time is the charm".

Not sure who Austin Hatch is, but one of my customers managed to kill himself and his wife in a Bonanza. Got into instrument conditions and probably icing as well in Northern Ohio. Typical death spiral from 11,000ft to impact, not sure if he lost the tail or not. He tended to be overconfident in his abilities. Went from a Cherokee 6 to the B-35 for the improved speed. An airline pilot that knew him better than I told me early on that he was an accident looking for a place to happen.

Bob

[groovy mike]

you said enough when you got to marine and lawyer............

[ascast]

call me sick- but I wish we had that on video


what action type ? will he get ride of the bad barrel?

[cajun shooter]

Being of German and French blood, I'll have to say that although all races produce their shares of good and bad. Some should never be allowed to even get close to the other gender.
Werner Von Braun was my idol when I was young and read the book, I Aim At The Stars. I even was first in line when the movie came out.
I will be the first to admit that I will talk to a brick wall if it remains in the same spot long enough.
As far as lawyers go, I feel very qualified to make a comment on them as I was in the law enforcement field.
A busload of lawyers going over a 2000 ft. cliff is known as a "DARN GOOD START" Later David

[joesig]

You guys covered everything else.

Four hours and the gunsmith still didn't get the bullet out?

[Boz330]

You guys covered everything else.

Four hours and the gunsmith still didn't get the bullet out?

That is what he said. Ordered a new barrel and said that there were some pistol barrels for sale. The guy has several BPCR so I'm not sure which one he did it to. Personally I would have gone to my grave with that stunt not being known.

Bob

[craig61a]

Well no matter what your heritage, station in life, whatever, hammering on explosives (primer) is always very bright... :roll: I figured this out with a framing hammer and rolls of caps a long time ago.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hit+explosive+with+hammer&qpvt=hit+explosive+with+hammer&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=F14B36875ECC6A1D7FC5F14B36875ECC6A1D7FC5

[Boz330]

Well no matter what your heritage, station in life, whatever, hammering on explosives (primer) is always very bright... :roll: I figured this out with a framing hammer and rolls of caps a long time ago.


Pretty amazing what kind of kick back you can get from a whole roll of caps.

Back when I was guiding the following happened in another camp. We guided a lot of ML hunts in unit 13 NM. Many of the guys that came to hunt with MLs didn't have much experience with them, but were there because of the quality of the bulls there.
One hunter double loaded his rifle. he had pyrodex pellets, bullet Pyrodex pellets and another bullet. Not sure how they determined that but the guid suggested filling the barrel with water after the got the pellets in the back out through the breech. This was one of the inlines. The hunter didn't want to rust the barrel on his new rifle so he placed it on his boot toe while he pounded on the bullet in back with a rod and hammer. The Pyrodex went of and the front bullet went through his foot bounced off of the concrete floor and went back through his foot. The back bullet came through the breech which was smaller than the barrel and put the shrapnel in the right side of his head taking out the right eye in the process.
This was pretty far out in the boonies so they called EMS and they said that they would meet them on I-40. It was 40 miles on dirt roads to get there. When EMS looked at him they called in stat flight and they dusted him off to ABQ.
I doubt that anybody even had a bullet puller. And it was probably one of the big jacketed bullets.

Bob

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bob, ouch! That was some story, how did the fellow fair in the end?

KW

[oldred]

Does this mean that Pyrodex/Pyrodex pellets can be fired off from impact? There was no primer involved? That's interesting and I have often wondered if that could be done, however I wasn't about to smack a Pyro pellet with hammer!

[EDG]

Austin Hatch is a college basketball player.
In 2003 his dad (a doctor by the way) crashed a Bonanza killing Austin's mother, brother and sister.
Austin and his father survived.
In 2011 his dad crashed a second plane. It killed Austin's father and step mother.
Austin was in a coma for 8 weeks with a brain injury and had a long, long rehab to get back to semi-normal.





"I wonder if Austin Hatch thinks the 3rd time is the charm".

Not sure who Austin Hatch is, but one of my customers managed to kill himself and his wife in a Bonanza.
Bob

[Boz330]

Bob, ouch! That was some story, how did the fellow fair in the end?

KW

Kenny,
He survived the thing with the loss of his right eye and a pretty mangled food but it sure could have been worse. The outfitter went to see him the next day since they were worried about liability but the guy admitted it was his fault and never sued.
I wouldn't have thought that you could have set off Pyrodex like that but don't think that trying to pound it out would have been my first choice.

On another note do you remember meeting Dick Hoff at Raton back in 12'? Him and I were friends, hunting and shooting partners for more than 54 years. Anyway cancer got him last March. After he was clean for 1 year they said that he had a 99.3% chance of being cured. He had trouble completing the course of fire at the World Champs in South Africa in Sep 13' because it was coming back with a vengeance.


Bob

[Knarley]

Have him put in ONE ear plug. That way your advise can go in.......................

Knarley

[dtknowles]

........... I wouldn't have thought that you could have set off Pyrodex like that but don't think that trying to pound it out would have been my first choice............
Bob

Don't Pyrodex pellets have some sort of accelerator (may be black powder) on one end so that they ignite reliably.


Tim

[Hickory]

If he practices law and has a grasp on any sort of logic, explain to him the concept of Murphy's law and how it works.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bob,

yes es I do remember Meeting Dick. Sure seemed to be a darn nice guy, most of the shooters I have meet in person are. Very sorry to hear of his passing, one of the good guys, my own near brush with death has been most enlightening. I also know that as long as you two shot together that this has to been most hard on you also, my condolences to you also losing a pard is rough.

KW

[Boz330]

Bob,

yes es I do remember Meeting Dick. Sure seemed to be a darn nice guy, most of the shooters I have meet in person are. Very sorry to hear of his passing, one of the good guys, my own near brush with death has been most enlightening. I also know that as long as you two shot together that this has to been most hard on you also, my condolences to you also losing a pard is rough.

KW

Thanks Kenny. He was a class act, a perfectionist, and a hell of an amateur gunsmith. He built this rifle for me back in the late 80s. He has also done many re-barrels and misc. work over the years. There was nothing that he didn't do well.

Bob

[Sharpsman]

Bastid has to be a covert Democrat!!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Kenny,
He survived the thing with the loss of his right eye and a pretty mangled food but it sure could have been worse. The outfitter went to see him the next day since they were worried about liability but the guy admitted it was his fault and never sued.
I wouldn't have thought that you could have set off Pyrodex like that but don't think that trying to pound it out would have been my first choice.

On another note do you remember meeting Dick Hoff at Raton back in 12'? Him and I were friends, hunting and shooting partners for more than 54 years. Anyway cancer got him last March. After he was clean for 1 year they said that he had a 99.3% chance of being cured. He had trouble completing the course of fire at the World Champs in South Africa in Sep 13' because it was coming back with a vengeance.


Bob

I am pretty sure Pyrodex usually won't go off from impact, but observe how much good "usually won't" did him. I wonder if he had ever had a misfire? On a more conventional muzzle-loader I have seen fragments of primer composition adhering to the nipple when the cap was removed.

Anybody who uses a muzzle loader far from home needs a good cleaning rod, so how much trouble and expense would it be to have a bullet-drawing (and pellet-drawing) screw?

[Boz330]

I am pretty sure Pyrodex usually won't go off from impact, but observe how much good "usually won't" did him. I wonder if he had ever had a misfire? On a more conventional muzzle-loader I have seen fragments of primer composition adhering to the nipple when the cap was removed.

Anybody who uses a muzzle loader far from home needs a good cleaning rod, so how much trouble and expense would it be to have a bullet-drawing (and pellet-drawing) screw?

We hunted a primitive weapons area ONLY. Many of the clients that hunted this area were after the BIG elk that were in the area. Way too many of them had never fired a ML before arriving. The outfitter sold many these hunts at Safari Club shows and would order the guns and have them shipped to the ranch for the hunter. I zeroed many of these rifles.
It was up to the guide to instruct the hunter on how to load and shoot the gun. I wasn't in this camp at the time of this incident and only heard about it from a guide that was there. I have had many people tell me that Pyrodex won't go off like that, BUT the fact is that there is a guy out there with no right eye and a mangled foot. This was an inline and the breach plug was out so there wasn't residue priming compound left on the nipple that caused the problem. I always made sure that the hunters riding in my truck cleaned the compound off after depriming for that very reason.
Even if there was compound left that wouldn't have been the problem since it was a double load and the back pellets were removed from the rear. The pellets between the 2 bullets were the culprits.

Bob

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ah, I've got it now. Hindsight is a marvelous teacher, but he would probably have been better off replacing about a quarter of the rear charge and firing the rest out. I think it would have been long odds on harming the rifle, and no chance of harming him if a long piece of string was used. I wouldn't count on water getting past a sabot round.

I once made a device to couple an artist's airbrush compressor to an ordinary muzzle-loader nipple, which would probably blow out a bullet or charge in safety. But I never had to use it, just like I have never seen snow since I bought my Landrover. An alternative would be for the guiding establishment to adapt a bicycle pump or large grease-gun for the same purpose. If the next one minds a messy cleanup job, tell him about the last.

Of course he would have been all right if his primitive weapon had been a bit more primitive.

[Boz330]

Like you said Hindsight is 20/20.

Bob

[gkainz]

Doctors and Beech Bonanzas is a deadly combination for sure.
Bob
Only the V tails ... mine has a straight tail. But then, I'm not a doctor, so I guess I'm safe (enough). :)

[Boz330]

Only the V tails ... mine has a straight tail. But then, I'm not a doctor, so I guess I'm safe (enough). :)
An oversight, we always called them V-tailed Doctor killers, I should have given the full name.
One of my customers killed himself and his wife in a V-tailed doctor killer, and he wasn't a doctor, but he WAS, much more impressed with his abilities than other pilots that knew him. It has been a long time since I read the NTSB report but he managed to take it in from 10 or 12K in the old death spiral, solid IFR.

Bob

[John Allen]

It won't go in! Hit it harder, larger hammer!!!!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Like many a thing in firearms technology, I believe the physics behind V-tailed aircraft is pretty sound. But perhaps novelty attracts people who, in the phrase born in the days when wet-sponging a cannon bore slowed down the rate of fire, are inclined to chance their arm. "I've got a Weatherby! I can walk on water!"

I forget which 1960s gunsmith I read recounting his attempt to remove a stuck case. He managed to push the bullet down into the case, added the oil which would deactivate the primer, and inserted a rod which he whacked with a hammer. Perhaps it was because modern primers are varnish sealed, but he produced a pretty substantial explosion, which expelled the rod violently. Fortunately he wasn't optimistic enough to be pointing it at any part of his anatomy at the time.

[Boz330]

Like many a thing in firearms technology, I believe the physics behind V-tailed aircraft is pretty sound.

The problem comes in when you've been flying lower performance aircraft and upgrade. The Bonanza is a pretty high performance aircraft and can get away from you quickly if you don't have a bunch of hours in it and know what to expect. Kind of like giving a Ferrari to a 16 year old new driver.

Bob

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think we are using different words to say about the same thing here. In a train passing one of the old Battle of Britain airfields I once heard a fascinating conversation between a tiny old lady and a little black girl of about fifteen. She had been there often, as a delivery pilot in wartime, and she said her favourite was the Typhoon, since it would go in any direction you pointed it. I suppose there is a kind of safety in that, but not being much interested in proving masculinity probably helped.

[Boz330]

Yep sometimes that testosterone can get you in trouble.

Bob

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2:Seems like many years ago,there was a little dodad that used a co2 ctg and an adapter to attach to the breech of a muzzle
loader to blow the unfired charge out of the barrel.Seemed to work pretty well.If they are still available,would seem to be a pretty good accessory for the black powder shooter.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Boz330]

The ones I've seen probably wouldn't work on an inline and you have to remember this was 60 miles from the nearest civilization.

Bob

[Silver Jack Hammer]

If his boolits don't fit -tell him to get a bigger hammer!

If he wants to propel cleaning rods he should take up archery!

Oh, I know...Have RCBS and Sharps get together and build a rifle with a loading press handle built into the action for him! Ya.

Lawyers are a source of humor for me, they take themselves so seriously.

But seriously we have a lawyer shooting with us at our local range and he is a real class act.