T38 6.5 Arisaka load pressures low, but why?

[hornady308]

I recently picked up a very nice 6.5x50 Type 38 that was made circa 1930. In beginning to work up some loads, I was shocked to see how low the max pressures are in recent manuals. The 38 is thought to be a very strong action, yet all the pressures I looked at are below 40,000 psi. Meanwhile, loads for the Swede 96 are in the 50,000 psi area. Why are the Arisaka loads so anemic? My 14" 6.5 TCU can do about the same as the pathetic loads shown for the Arisaka.

[Japlmg]

Work up your own loads.
I load 30.5 grains of IMR-3031 under a 140 grain bullet.
It works fine in my T96 LMG.
I also use the same loading in all of my 6.5x50sr rifles and carbines.
Gregg

[madsenshooter]

Might be kept low because there's some smooth bored, iron receiver training rifles out there. Also, some of the cases are a bit undersized for the T38s chamber, especially old Norma brass.

[ukrifleman]

I have a 27th series Nagoya T38, circa 1933 and use a load of 35.0gn of Rel15, behind a 139gn `J` word bullet and get an average m/v of 2379 fps.

This load works well, knocking down fig 11's (E silhouettes) out to 400 yards.

Disclaimer
This load works well in MY rifle, use it at your own risk.
ukrifleman.

[Multigunner]

Most military rifles are over built for the cartridge they are intended to fire.
The Type 38 and Type 99 were massively overbuilt in large part because of the perceived weaknesses of the type 30 rifles.
The japanese also pioneered the use of rifle grenades, though they at first used dedicated grenade launching rifles mounted on elaborate weooden frameworks. Later on they mainly went to the "knee mortar" for this role but still made grenade launching adapters for their rifles.

The Types 38 and 99 designs could have handled the pressures generated by the 6.5 and 7.7 cartridges even if they had been made from much less suitable steels. the great improvements in metalurgy and heat treatment methods resulted in the reputation for great strength these rifles earned.
The Type 30 copies in 7.92X57 made by the Chinese using good quality alloys and heat treatment don't seem to have had the problems of the original Japanese Type 30 rifles.

[gew98]

I recently picked up a very nice 6.5x50 Type 38 that was made circa 1930. In beginning to work up some loads, I was shocked to see how low the max pressures are in recent manuals. The 38 is thought to be a very strong action, yet all the pressures I looked at are below 40,000 psi. Meanwhile, loads for the Swede 96 are in the 50,000 psi area. Why are the Arisaka loads so anemic? My 14" 6.5 TCU can do about the same as the pathetic loads shown for the Arisaka.



It's typical to see this trend in military rifle calibers in such manuals etc. There was a 'low pressure' military loading for the 6,5 jap for use in their type 96 hopper feed MG monstrosity. When I used to load for type 38's I had very good results using pulled surplus carcano 160gn RN FMJ's.

[shakerattlenroll]

Wow this is pretty cool, I just fired mine for the first time ever since having it..20+ years
Key holed at less than 20 yards lol

[junkbug]

Reloading manuals have to factor in that there is a noticeable number of Type 30 rifles and carbines out there, also in 6.5mm Japanese. They are similar in construction to the Gew-88 Commission rifle. Thus the conservative loads.

[hornady308]

"Reloading manuals have to factor in that there is a noticeable number of Type 30 rifles and carbines out there, also in 6.5mm Japanese."

Ok, this makes sense. I plan to hunt with mine, and I expected to get 2200 fps using the Lee 170gr Cruise Missile. I've already slugged the bore and found it is very fat at .270, so the Missile should work well.

[bouncer50]

Years back the NRA ran a good story about the Japanese 6.5 Some guy took a 30.06 reamer and rechamber one to 30-06 but left the bore in 6.5 The guy shot the rifle with the 06 ammo he took it to a gunsmith telling him how painful it was to shoot it. The NRA got the rifle to run test on it. They place sand bags on and fired it with a string and the rifle held up. The bullet that they found were long and skinny getting push down a smaller bore. It goes and show you how strong they are. I not sure what pressure the 06 produce but it had to be quite HIGH

[Multigunner]

Julian Hatcher wrote of a 7.7 Jap rifle surviving two rounds of .35 Remington, but on the third round the action exploded sending a fragment into the shooter's brain. The young man survived after delicate surfery.
A gunsmith who specializes in restoring Jap rifles posted on another board that he had accidentally fired a 7.92 Mauser cartridge in a 7.7 Jap rifle and destroyed the action.
Some M1917 rifles and M1903 rifles have also been destroyed by firing a 7.92 cartridge in a .30-06 chamber.

The main source of extreme pressures when firing an over sized bullet aren't from bullet to bore fit but rather the lack of clearance at the chamber neck.

[3leggedturtle]

Years back the NRA ran a good story about the Japanese 6.5 Some guy took a 30.06 reamer and rechamber one to 30-06 but left the bore in 6.5 The guy shot the rifle with the 06 ammo he took it to a gunsmith telling him how painful it was to shoot it. The NRA got the rifle to run test on it. They place sand bags on and fired it with a string and the rifle held up. The bullet that they found were long and skinny getting push down a smaller bore. It goes and show you how strong they are. I not sure what pressure the 06 produce but it had to be quite HIGH

I actually read that article in the American Rifleman back in the mid-70's. An older friend had it. Was amazing to see how long the 180gr, ( i think) lengthened.

[madsenshooter]

Off subject, but this is extreme bullet swagging! 300BLK in .223!