45-70 and lube confusion

[Biggen]

Hello guys. New guy here trying to wrap my head around all this. Quick question on shooting a 45-70 at around 1700 - 1800 fps with a GC LFN or a GC FN 350g round. I don't want to pan lube. That much I know. Could I just get away with using alox or do I need to buy a lubrisizer? I read some people use Lee Alox on everything, even bullets that are coming out of standard lube groove molds.

Id love to get away with not buying another piece of equipment but I'll do it if I have to.

[Gelandangan]

Hi, I have shot with NOE RG 330 om 50/50 LLA/mineral turps they seems to work Ok.
Now days I use Speed green, works a bit better IMO

[country gent]

Once you figure it out and get everything set up for it pan lubing isnt bad to do. Depending on lube hardness you can hand lube also just a little dab on your thump and work it into lube grooves. The lee sizers with liquid alox work well also a coat before push thru sizer and another coat. The lee push thrus are around 20.00 or so and work with a standard reloading press. Dip lubing can also be done sizing after wards.

[Bigslug]

I don't do anything BUT lubrisize, so I have no claim to being a fount of knowledge, though as hot as you're planning to run them, I'd feel far more confident with a couple gasket bands of greasy wax helping me out.

On that topic, buy the RCBS, not the Lyman. For about the same money, it's a more durable machine that easier to deal with.

[GoodOlBoy]

45-45-10 lube works great. When sizing I just use a lee sizer if I need to size at all (because of out of round bullets, oversize, etc) I don't mind pan lubing, but 45-45-10 is much easier.

Richard

[jmort]

Check out Ben's Liquid Lube. Sounds perfect for what you are doing.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259285-NEW-!-!-T-L-Liquid-Lube

[Lead Fred]

Been pan lubing for years now, no mess or fuss, just 1750fps freight train boolits that have never leaded any of the three 45/70s I shoot.
Simple and cheap. I tumble lube a few molds, just dont think it does as good of job

[Biggen]

Thanks guys! I have been reading up on Ben's LL and the 45-45-10. I may try those two first before getting into using hard lubes. I'm hoping that by slugging my barrel and casting/sizing a round .001 over the bore size AND doing gas checks that will prevent leading.

[gwpercle]

Biggen,
I am one of those who hates to spend money on tools, I improvise, make do , make my own, scrounge, in short I usually do whatever I can not to spend money. My wife says I'm so tight I squeak when I walk. she's right. Frugal is a nice word. That being said, after trying fingering lubing, pan lubing, tumble lubing, wrapping with Teflon tape ( painting/coating boolits hadn't been invented then). I got disgusted with all the results. More messy and time consuming than I cared for. Went down to local gun shop, bought a Lyman 450 , sizer die or two, and want to tell you right here and now....that was the BEST money I ever spent. I LOVE that rascal. Here's why:
Fast, easy, clean, pull the handle down , push it up TA-DA...boolit is sized, lubed and gas check is seated. There is a lot of things you don't really need, all these fancy trimmers, turners, measuring do-hickies, ultra sound cleaners and such....don't buy them but DO buy the lubri-sizer when you can....take it from a miserly tight wad...it's worth every penny!

Gary

[Elkins45]

My old 1895 shot cast lubed with Lee liquid Alox to maximum velocities and with great accuracy.

[cajun shooter]

If you are real crazy about casting and shooting then your next purchase should be a RCBS lube/sizer. I do like to pan lube my 45-70 bullets because I shoot 535 grain bullets out of my 45-70 and I'm a 100% BP shooter.
Pan lubing is very easy and fast if you have the correct tools. I use a lube cutter that was made with a .462 ID so that it clears my .458 bullets. As each bullet is pressed out, it goes into the tool and out the top once a few have been lubed. Good Luck Fairshake

[Biggen]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I will try the BLL first and just tumble them. If I'm having issues I'll look into the luberisizers.

Like Gary mentioned above, I hate continuing to purchase equipment, but it seems that these little buggers come in real handy.

[MT Chambers]

For seating and crimping your gas checks, sizing and lubing without concentricity problems and one crank on the handle there is only one way.....wait for it......a Star lubesizer.

[Toymaker]

At those velocities you must be using smokeless powder so your concern is a smooth riding bullet and leading. Ben's Red, Ben's Alox & Johnson's Liquid Wax, Alox, Alox & Mineral Spirits, 45-45-10, etc. are all good for that purpose. It's just a matter of finding the one that works best for you and the rifle. I switched over to Ben's Red and am testing his Alox/Liquid Wax.

IF you decide to try black powder, which is fun, your concern shifts to keeping the fouling soft. For that I started with Darr's Lube and stayed with it. Even used it with smokeless until I found Ben's Red.

BTW a lot of people avoid black powder thinking clean up is a mess. Actually, it's easier than cleaning up from smokeless!!

[rintinglen]

I have run 30 caliber boolits with GC to 2300 fps using nothing but a heavy coat of LLA. I have shot hundreds, maybe thousands of 311-041 30-30 boolits with 34 grains of WW-748 at velocities well over 2000 fps with little or no leading. With proper fitting boolits and a smooth bore, it is no problem to achieve the velocities you are striving for.

I will say that you should use more LLA than some of pictures posted of pistol boolits would indicate. Many advocate a near invisible coating that might cut the mustard at 700-900 fps, but will likely be found wanting when you step velocities up another 1000 fps. There should definitely be a brownish, bronze tint to the boolits with visible quantities in the grooves. Ranch Dog designed a number of excellent boolits specifically for use with LLA and fairly high velocities. He had many happy users.

[cajun shooter]

Mt Chambers, I posted the info about the OP purchasing the RCBS lube/sizer because he is just getting started and is posting about shooting 45-70 bullets. I used and purchased my first Star machine in 1970 and have owned as many as three at one time. all equipped with air as that is the best way to run a Star.
The problem with with buying a Star right out of the chute is the cost. It is the cream of the crop but it comes with a high price tag that is hard for a lot of people.
I've also shot the 45-70 since the early 70's and have found that my bullets work better being pan lubed and it's a relaxing way to spend a winter day.
The RCBs may be found for as little as $100 and the company will send out replacement parts at no cost which Star will not do. They seem to want to keep raising the price of the product and nothing is free.
When it comes to lube, you need to read the sticky section on that subject, You will find that every poster thinks his lube is the best. It's like starting a conversation about favorite ice cream flavors. You should try several different ones and find which one suits the needs of yourself and most importantly, your gun.
If you want to just purchase some ready made lubes then I would suggest that you look into those made by our member Lars. His Carnauba Red and 2500 and BAC are great lubes at a very low price. Look at the vendor section for the contact info. Later David

[MBTcustom]

I have lubed bullets any which way you can emagine. I've got a 450, a Star, I've pan lubed, finger lubed, dip lubed, tumble lubed, and used lube cookies(slightly different but hey).
By far, the method I use most is the dip lubing method.
In order to do this, all that is required is a roll of paper towels, an empty tuna fish can, a hotplate, and some boolits that need lube in the grooves.

Crimping on GCs is always done first. I spray the bullets with FA case lube and run them through a PT sizing die to crimp the GC in place. This ensures that hydraulic pressure doesnt' push the check off the base slightly.
I then, take a the tuna fish can and set it on the hot plate and melt some lube into it until the liquid is high enough to cover the lube grooves.
131891
Then I experiment with how many seconds to leave the bullet in the dish so that when I pull it out there is just enough surface tension on the lube to fill the grooves perfectly.
The bullets are removed and set out on a paper towel to cool (in this picture I was trying wax paper. Disregard this because the wax paper sticks to the bottom of the bullet whereas the paper towel absorbs enough of the lube to allow you to easily twist it off with a clean base.)
131893
131894
Now, if you have a bullet cutter outer, you can use it, but I find that if you just get the timing right on the previous step, this is just added work and I do not use this tool anymore. I just made it to see if it worked better/faster than just correctly dipping the bullets. Conclusion: it does not.
131895
131895
Finally, I simply run the bullets back through the sizing die and voila! perfection itself:
131896
131897

Remember, it's not the only way but it's a way that works for me, and it might work for you too.

Thank you.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Biggin,

I do not pan lube or tumble lube and won't unless pushed kicking and screaming into that necessity!

I know it works and that is fine for those who want to go that way. I don't!

Folk used to cast over an open camp fire, smear lube on the bullet by hand and load with tong tools. Worked then, but there are better ways now for most of us.

I first started with a Lyman luber/sizer over 40 years ago, and continue to use that type of tool.

I currently have both a Lyman and an RCBS tool.

To each his own, but that is the direction I'd go.

Then, lube ------------------ I have also made home brew of a number of different formulations, But with a company like White Label Lube with their very fine product at a very fine price, it is hardly worth the effort.

I do not like pouring melted lube in to my sizer/luber, so want the hollow sticks. Have part of a #10 tin of home brew sitting on the kitchen counter, that has been sitting there for several years and frankly with the price of the White Label products, it may set for a lot longer.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[dilly]

LLA might work, 45-45-10 is much more pleasant to work with, and I don't have any other experience with other tumble lubes.

As an alternative, if you decide you don't like those options and refuse to buy a lubrisizer, check out powder coating. It can be done with less startup cost than a lubrisizer and I really enjoy not having to get grease all over my dies/fingers/etc. There is a powder coating subforum if you're interested or you can PM me.

[MBTcustom]

LLA might work, 45-45-10 is much more pleasant to work with, and I don't have any other experience with other tumble lubes.

As an alternative, if you decide you don't like those options and refuse to buy a lubrisizer, check out powder coating. It can be done with less startup cost than a lubrisizer and I really enjoy not having to get grease all over my dies/fingers/etc. There is a powder coating subforum if you're interested or you can PM me.

You have hit on a very good point Dilly. It would certainly apear that powder coat and 45-70 should go together like peas and carrots. I very much want to try your suggestion someday. I m hoping that there exists a neon green powder that will work well for this purpose, because it would look so disgustingly kewl for words.

[MT Chambers]

It's prolly better to buy the Star first so you won't end up buying a bunch of dies from Lee or RCBS or Lyman that are useless when you buy your STAR.

[goofyoldfart]

GoodSteel----you sure that there isn't some SERIOUS Irish in you? God Bless to you and yours.
Goofy[smilie=s:

[MBTcustom]

GoodSteel----you sure that there isn't some SERIOUS Irish in you? God Bless to you and yours.
Goofy[smilie=s:

Not a chance in seven hells, but everybody likes zombie guns and the 1895 loaded with neon green cast bullets definitely fits the bill.

[goofyoldfart]

Ok, that I can understand. Neon Green for the "kewl" factor it is.:D God Bless to you and yours.

Goofy aka Godfrey[smilie=s:

[Good Cheer]

My "45-70" is a muzzleloader.
Lanolin-olive oil-beeswax (LOOB) is all it ever needs.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/NewEnglanderandLyman457124_zps8b48b4ba.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/NewEnglanderandLyman457124_zps8b48b4ba.jpg.html)

[Ohio3Wheels]

Not a chance in seven hells, but everybody likes zombie guns and the 1895 loaded with neon green cast bullets definitely fits the bill.

Some where here on the forum there is a picture of a bunch of hollow points PC with Kawasaki green.

Curt