Lyman small handles are not all created equal??

[durant7]

Sorry, I did not search on this topic. A tad exasperated. I have an old Ideal/Lyman mould 31141, single cavity, which is my competition boolit. The mould came back to me and I have always borrowed handles from others. I purchased some small handles and put them on my mould to cast and they don't close the blocks 100% before the handles come in contact with one another. HUH? Other than having the spur going the wrong way, you can't put these together any other way.

Are some small handles different than others? Handles are tight and show no use or abuse.

Nothing is easy! Any suggestions other than buy another pair?

JD in NH

[RayinNH]

Can you post apicture JD? Chances are a little grinding in one spot or another will allow them to work.

[nicholst55]

Yes, there are two different styles/sizes of 'small' Lyman handles - and mold blocks. I'm not certain when the change occurred, but I have run into the same problem. Fortunately I have both styles of 'small' handles.

[durant7]

Yes, I saw here.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?131147-The-Right-Handles-Pic-Thread!!

that there are two sizes. #3 and #7. I have a #7 but need a #3 I gather? Bother! Here is my problem. Although I did not include a picture of the handles touching, please trust me when I say they were and I could "squeeze" them together no further. I also took the mould off and held together with my fingers and there is no gap as seen below. I feel like such a rookie! Guess I am. Got lucky with the first two pairs I borrowed until I purchased my own and of course I go the wrong once. Still trying to figure out exactly what I am looking at to differentiate the two.

129974

Here are the handles w/o mould.

129975

[Hickok]

I drilled the two small holes closer to the end of the prong/fork. Take your mold and insert the handles and slide the mold closer to the end of the prongs/forks until the mold halves are completely closed, then mark the holes on the prongs/forks and drill.

Sometimes this will work.

[country gent]

Depending on how close to the edge the holes are you may be able to drill another set closer to the front and edges. You could possibly heat behind the hinges red hot and bend them a little wider but thus may soften weaken the handles. Quikest and easiest is to take a coarse file and remove some of the wood from inside of each handle. A coarse file file a flat on inside of handle and sand smooth then refinish. .010-.020 of inside of each handle should do it nicely

[Hamish]

I drilled the two small holes closer to the end of the prong/fork. Take your mold and insert the handles and slide the mold closer to the end of the prongs/forks until the mold halves are completely closed, then mark the holes on the prongs/forks and drill.

Sometimes this will work.


^. This .^ will git r dun,,,,,,very first pair if handles I bought on the forum turned out to be opportunities for improvement and learning,,,,,,, don't be afraid to modify the equipment after careful consideration of the problem!

[Ben]

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/IMG_0036_zpslas96wzh.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/IMG_0036_zpslas96wzh.jpg.html)

This procedure assumes that your wood handles are not hitting " early ". If they are , you must remove wood from the handles BEFORE you file any metal.

[bedbugbilly]

durant7 - don't feel bad . . . I've been casting 50 years ago and never ran into this until I started re-loading cartridges a few years back. I purchased some used Ideal blocks and ran into just what you describe. Fortunately, I've accumulated enough Lyma handles that I had a set that would work on my blocks.

[largom]

BEN has the easy answer, could remove some wood on the handles as suggested also.

Larry

[Duckiller]

Have a single cavity Lyman mold for .348 Win. Single cavity = small handles, right. NO! Made some badly finned boolits. After pot and mold cooled I tried a set of Lee six cavity handles. Mold closed as it is supposed to. Looking forward to making boolits without fins.

[SSGOldfart]

yep old mold new handles easiest fix is to sell me the mold as I have both new and old handles [smilie=b:

[longbow]

+1 for what Ben says. I have filed small Lyman handles for single cavity moulds (small mould blocks anyway) to take double cavity moulds (larger mould blocks) with no problem. Just relieve the handle prongs where they touch the mould blocks. once you have a small bit of daylight between handle prongs and mould blocks when the mould is completely closed you are good to go. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

Longbow

[durant7]

Well, a good shooting buddy, I mean all shooting buddies are the best, is mailing me his. I will do some photos and measurements and then decide to file metal or rasp wood. -4F before windchill this weekend so I doubt much will happen with casting in the garage. We'll see.

JD snowbound in New Hampshire.

[Red River Rick]

Problem is your trying to use D/C handles on a S/C mould.

RRR

[1989toddm]

Well, a good shooting buddy, I mean all shooting buddies are the best, is mailing me his. I will do some photos and measurements and then decide to file metal or rasp wood. -4F before windchill this weekend so I doubt much will happen with casting in the garage. We'll see.

JD snowbound in New Hampshire.

Please do post the process/comparison, I can't see how filing metal away as in Bens picture would work if the handles are touching. If handles cannot come any closer together, then certainly the prongs can't come together any more, and so I don't understand the concept if filing. I will wait and watch to learn!

[Red River Rick]

.............I can't see how filing metal away as in Bens picture would work if the handles are touching. If handles cannot come any closer together, then certainly the prongs can't come together any more, and so I don't understand the concept if filing. I will wait and watch to learn!

Exactly! All the filing in the world won't help in this case.

RRR

[durant7]

Well, the alternate set of small handles arrived in the mail today. I did a comparison side by side. The CTC on the small handles when the handles are closed, w/o mould, handles touching, is .870". The other and correct handles for my S/C mould has a .722" CTC. The mould screw holes are .128" closer together at full close. 1/8" in general terms. That being said....I guess I need to find the correct small handle set someday. Or cast a whole bunch of bullets! Or get a D/C version of the 31141 mould.

RRR, I thought that all small handles were S/C handles. Is the lesson learned here that there are D/C small handles and there are S/C small handles?

130716

[Red River Rick]

RRR, I thought that all small handles were S/C handles. Is the lesson learned here that there are D/C small handles and there are S/C small handles?

Durant7:

Lyman made three type of handles at one time, the large double cavity style, the small single cavity and their four cavity style (nutcracker style).

The handles you have (as pictured) are for the Large D/C or Large S/C moulds. I have the exact same pair that you have pictured, and I know that they are for the large D/C blocks (measure the inside of the tongs, not the hole spacing).

The Small S/C blocks (approximately 1.188" x 0.980") haven't been made by Lyman for some time. However; Lyman still offers S/C moulds, but they are cut in the Large D/C blocks, that we are all familiar with.

RRR

[HeavyMetal]

Found out about the handle difference a long time ago and it is a pain with early molds if your not aware.

Case in Point my BIL bought a couple SC molds and couldn't get them to work and sent them to me to get "fixed", LOL!

I played dumb for a month or so, as I knew his Birthday was coming up, and I had both his molds, 358429 and 429421 plus an Lyman RN 45 ACP mold HP'd by Eric at HP molds and found an early set of SC handles to go with them.

Put the whole deal in a real nice wooden Cigar Box, as someone most likely did at the turn of the 19th century, and gave the set up to him for his BD.

He was very impressed but didn't want to tell my sister it was better than the $50 gift card to Cabella's, LOL!

[Walks]

The Thompson Center Italian made handles will fit Lyman small block single cavity molds too. These are usually brass plated. And the wood grips are about 3/4" longer. I prefer them to old Lyman single cavity handles.
I can only tell the difference between Lyman 1cav or 2cav by comparing them side by side.

[zarrinvz24]

I think a big part of this confusion roots from when Lyman discontinued the small single cavity blocks. At some point in the mid-late 1980's, Lyman began cutting both single and dual cavity molds in the larger blocks that most consider "dual cavity" size. This in turn prompted the advertising department to shot one part number for lyman 2x/1x cavity handles (called small), and Lyman 4x handles (now called large).

[Bent Ramrod]

Generally, there is no easily visible difference between the old-style Lyman single- and double-cavity handles. Once in a blue moon, I see, or maybe imagine I see, a tiny “S” or “L” on one of the flats, but generally, when the box is lost, the only way to distinguish between them is trying each block type on a given handle set and looking for daylight between the halves.

I would follow Rick’s advice and not do any modifications on that first handle set. When the inevitable two-cavity mould comes along, you’ll be glad you didn’t. Two-cavity handles are much less common than two-cavity Lyman/Ideal blocks, at least in my 50 years of gun-show scrounging.

Recently, I stopped into our town’s one black powder gun store and found a double-cavity Ideal mould on the remainder table for $20. On the same table was a set of handles for $10. I scooped these up with delight, got them home, put them together, and saw the blocks fit the handles like those in your picture. The handles were for a single-cavity mould.

Curses, foiled again! :mrgreen: But I can always use SC handles and I keep a set of DC handles in the original box for just such exigencies.

[Green Frog]

BR, for a long time during my Scheutzen phase, my belief was that I would get my best results using only single cavity moulds and keeping my bullets in order of casting until they could be fired that way. It seems back then (25 years ago +/-) the hard handles for me to find were those I needed for the SC moulds. Now I’ve got plenty of those, so now you say the DC handles will be the hard ones to find. ARRRGH! Why can’t I be looking for something when it’s common? [smilie=b:

Froggie

[Bent Ramrod]

Not to worry, GF; those oversized, overlength, overweight, overly-expensive new handles that Lyman offers now appear to fit all the old double-cavity blocks I’ve tried on them. They also fit the oversized, overweight single-cavity blocks that Lyman has now standardized on.