Type I Japanese Rifle

[bouncer50]

I have a type I Japanese beretta made with P.B stamping on it. What is today value on one in V.G plus shape. I only paid 40 bucks for it 30 years ago. Years back China made surplus ammo with stripper clips that i bought at a gun show i still have some left. It a hell of a good shooter one inch groups at 75 yards. A lot of people never hear of a type I before.

[MtGun44]

As I understand it, these are basically Carcano actions set up with 6.5 Jap barrels and
externally very similar to Jap 6.5 Arisaka except the action. Is this correct?

Bill

[Scharfschuetze]

I saw a fellow with one at the rifle range last month. It was in great shape compared to the ones I normally see at gun shows.

As I recall, these were issued to the Imperial Japanese Navy as the Imperial Army had first dibs on Arisaka production. As surmised above, it had a Carcano action, Mauser type magazine and a 6.5mm bore. I can't recall if it took an Arisaka bayonet or not. Probably did.

As a side note, the Italians also provided the Japanese with a twin engine medium bomber called the Fiat BR 20, but it was unpopular in comparison to the Ki 21, G3M and G4M medium bombers produced by the Japanese themselves.

[bouncer50]

Yes sir a Japanese bayonet is correct. They were also call sneak rifles just proof marks and serial number no maker name. A odd weapon mix mauser and carcano action with Mauser magazine. You do not see them very much anymore. Mine is nicely made with the two piece stock like the other type of Japan made rifle. A very well made rifle made around 1939

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've never heard of this variant and I'll be interested to hear if anyone has an approximate current value for your rifle. While I have been collecting Mil surps since 1992, I have only had a few Jap rifles, come in, and go out of my collection.

BUT if I were to guess, sometimes a foreign rifle is so rare, that there is a lack of demand, because so few people even know they exist. My example of this is a 1874 French Gras (11x59R). I have a minty example and after finding out they were only made for 2 years, meaning not many made, I figured I was given a gold mine when I was gifted this rifle. But it's just another Mil surp in a obsolete centerfire caliber that can be had at a similar price point as other foreign mil surps of obsolete calibers that were made in the multitudes for many years.

[Multigunner]

First time I heard of these it was assumed that most of these rifles were destroyed while in warehouses during U S bombing raids, but many more have shown up since then so its hard to say how many were issued, and any aboard Japanese ships are likely still at the bottom of the Pacific.

Italy also manufactured an 8mm Mauser chambered Carcano with the Mauser style magazine.
Some for use by Italian troops serving with the Germans in Eastern Europe and some ending up in Finnland.

[Dschuttig]

I believe that they made apx 60k of these, based on surveys of serial numbers. I would put the value of one in VG+ condition at around $250-300 range. I have one that is unissued that I paid $200 for 15 years ago. Interesting that despite the fact that wood was available not requiring two piece stocks, they did it anyway.

[Dschuttig]

Also, type I bolts are not interchangeable with standard Carcano bolts, the ejector slot is 90° to the bolt handle, where standard carcano bolts are not.

[madsenshooter]

Many were found warehoused on one of the Japanese islands, can't recall which one now. I knew a guy who was there though. Odd story, went through WWII in the Navy, but couldn't swim. Drowned when he fell off his boat at the dock. He had one of the type 38 short rifles, one with 25" barrel that he brought home, but mentioned the crates of Type I rifles he saw that looked new. I have also seen some photos of the Japanese version of the Marines (naval personnel assigned to do some ground pounding) using them, on Guam I believe.

[Char-Gar]

I paid $75.00 for this chopped Type I two years ago. The stock had a big gap at the dovetail joint, but I fixed that and refinished the word. They are well made good shooting rifles.

[Char-Gar]

The rifles were shipped from Italy and transferred mid-ocean to Japanese cargo subs for the final leg. Most were never issued as the Japanese officers had disdain for them because they were not made in Japan. The truth of the matter is they are better and more accurate than the Arisaka. As mentioned most were still on the dock in warehouses at war's end.

[madsenshooter]

They are certainly chambered tighter than a type 38. I swagged some 7.62x51 down to 6.5 Jap and once I got it to fit my type 38, it wouldn't go into the type I chamber. That could be a good thing, most of the 6.5 ammo you can buy is a bit undersized. Oh, I remembered the name of the Japanese island the fellow said he saw the Type I's, Okinawa.

[Multigunner]

Correction.
My edit function still doesn't work
[quote]
Italy also manufactured an 8mm Mauser chambered Carcano with the Mauser style magazine.
Some for use by Italian troops serving with the Germans in Eastern Europe and some ending up in Finnland. {/quote]

I did some checking around and found that the 8mm chambered Carcanos were conversions done in Germany, and only prototype conversions had a Mauser style magazine.
Some of the conversions were single shot training rifles and others fed from the magazine using an altered Carcano enbloc clip, or perhaps a purpose made clip.
There were two and possibly three versions, the most refined conversion has a half moon cut in the receiver ring to clear the nose of the longer 8mm cartridge and an S marking.
Some ended up in Israel and bear a star of David marking.

[bouncer50]

Correction.
My edit function still doesn't work
[quote]
Italy also manufactured an 8mm Mauser chambered Carcano with the Mauser style magazine.
Some for use by Italian troops serving with the Germans in Eastern Europe and some ending up in Finnland. {/quote]

I did some checking around and found that the 8mm chambered Carcanos were conversions done in Germany, and only prototype conversions had a Mauser style magazine.
Some of the conversions were single shot training rifles and others fed from the magazine using an altered Carcano enbloc clip, or perhaps a purpose made clip.
There were two and possibly three versions, the most refined conversion has a half moon cut in the receiver ring to clear the nose of the longer 8mm cartridge and an S marking.
Some ended up in Israel and bear a star of David marking. Some were send to African for the Italian troop fighting with the Germans because of ammo supply problem. As i did some reading they claim the Carcanos was not strong enought for the 8mm ammo

[Multigunner]

As i did some reading they claim the Carcanos was not strong enought for the 8mm ammo
During that time frame German Infantry were issued a single five round clip of Tungsten Core AP ammunition for emergency use if pinned down by an Allied AFV.
These rounds were intended for use in the MG34 and aerial MGs and could damage even a K98 if too many rounds were fired. In the extreme heat of North Africa even standard Ball cartridges could generate excessive pressures.

I'm sure the Carcano is strong enough for any reasonable 7.92x57 loads and certainly strong enough for the usually lighter loaded sporting rifle loads marketed in the U S.

The Carcano got a bad rap for strength after some very degraded surplus 6.5 ammo was imported from Egypt. The old Italian powder was 60% nitroglycerine and when degraded by long term exposure to high ambient temperatures acted much like C4.

[EDG]

Who ever claimed that did not read the demolition test of a 7.35 Carcano on this forum.
From what I saw the Carcano receiver is way stronger than required for the 8X57,


As i did some reading they claim the Carcanos was not strong enought for the 8mm ammo

[Dschuttig]

I think that part of what gives the carcano a bad name was A, it couldn't be used for any real useful conversion back when they were sporterizing and rechambering every surplus rifle known to man, B, the bolt shakes all over when withdrawn which gives the impression of being "sloppy" and C, it was described as a cheap junk rifle in the warren commission report after JFK.

[jrap]

Take it apart and check under the barrel. Mine has a lot of markings there