4227 unburnt powder problems

[karlrudin]

I've been working with Imr/Hogdon 4227 for making reduces loads for a while, no matter what load I try or test. Is it me or is the use of 4227 just one of the powers that leave a trail of soot or unburnt powder down the barrel. I have got great groups that are reliable, but still the trail of unburnt powder down the bore. Crimp, not crimped, fillers in the case or not. Anyone?

[UBER7MM]

Karlrudin,

I've been experimenting with it in a CB reduced loads rifle cartridges and Dacron as a filler. Haven't noticed any unburnt powder. I've been using magnum primers. For my applications, IMR-3031 seems to be a better choice. I wouldn't complain about great groups. That's what it's about!

What cartridges are you loading with 4227?

Please advise.

[wlc]

I use it in my 454 Casull. I get some unburnt kernels left in the barrel as well.

[Mr opinionated]

sounds like you have got it reduced to much if you are try to go subsonic you need to try a little fast powder that will completely burn that's what i had to do, change powders are bump the load up.


that's my 2 cents



MR O

[claude]

I've been working with Imr/Hogdon 4227 for making reduces loads for a while

In what? One of the characteristics of 4227 in low pressure loads is unburned powder. The case you are using, your barrel length, all are contributing factors, sometimes you just have to live with it.

[karlrudin]

Karlrudin,

I've been experimenting with it in a CB reduced loads rifle cartridges and Dacron as a filler. Haven't noticed any unburnt powder. I've been using magnum primers. For my applications, IMR-3031 seems to be a better choice. I wouldn't complain about great groups. That's what it's about!


What cartridges are you loading with 4227?

Please advise.

Sorry y'll, I'm working with 45/70, with 50 caliber balls sized to 458.

[karlrudin]

In what? One of the characteristics of 4227 in low pressure loads is unburned powder. The case you are using, your barrel length, all are contributing factors, sometimes you just have to live with it.

45/70 govt, 50 caliber ball sized to .458". H&R Handi rifle with 20" barrel. Ball is lead ball from Hornady, they weigh 174-177 grains, Lee tumble lube, dacron touching powder and bottom of bullet and crimped.

[Nobade]

Well no wonder. You're only making about 1/5th of the pressure needed to burn 4227 properly. Something like Red Dot may be more appropriate.

-Nobade

[karlrudin]

Well no wonder. You're only making about 1/5th of the pressure needed to burn 4227 properly. Something like Red Dot may be more appropriate.

-Nobade
Now thats what i'm talking about, input. I have handgun powder's but I would like to conserve the little I got for my pistol. Pistol powder around here won't be back till the rest of the U.S. has plenty. Supply here s--ks. That said and this is the fastest rifle powder I have. Would upping the charge help? The highest I've been so far is 23grains.

[freebullet]

4227 does burn a little dirty at the low end in x39. With 13gr it would cycle an AK but had minimal unburned powder in the barrel. That should have been around 1300fps iirc. At 15gr. there were no longer traces of powder. I'd pick a slightly faster burn rate for reduced loads. I haven't used it in bigger cases yet.

[karlrudin]

My biggest worry is that this is unburnt powder and that it might cause a secondary detonation. It "looks" like burnt kernels but i'm not sure. Looks awfully black not to be. After I used Dacron filler, there was maybe 6-10 unburnt kernels still left in the case. MUCH better.

[Nobade]

Now thats what i'm talking about, input. I have handgun powder's but I would like to conserve the little I got for my pistol. Pistol powder around here won't be back till the rest of the U.S. has plenty. Supply here s--ks. That said and this is the fastest rifle powder I have. Would upping the charge help? The highest I've been so far is 23grains.

It might, but at the speed it would generate I would doubt you would find much accuracy.

-Nobade

[Jon K]

Like everyone has said "nature of the beast"
You can try Large Rifle Magnum Primer to get a better burn, that's what I use with 5744, and it's worse than 4227 having unburned "popcorn".

Jon

[karlrudin]

Thats an alternative. Got some of those. I really appreciate all of y'alls input. This was a dilemma for me. My main concern really was the dreaded "S.E.E."

[303Guy]

I can't assure you of anything but I would not be worried about a SEE. Do you have any slower powders you could use? I have loaded W748 to levels that would not fully burn 4227 with no visible unburned kernels. 4227 leaves a yellowish unburned kernel. I'm not sure they are unburned or partially burned. However, I do not have a 45-70 so I cannot and am trying to advise you here.

[Nobade]

Got any black powder or subs? 10 grains of it under a round ball is a 45-70 gallery load and is usually quite accurate. No worries about SEE with that. Just seat the ball down on top of the powder, no tools needed. You can use a felt wad between the two if you like, it helps keep the bore clean.

-Nobade

[karlrudin]

Thanks to all of y'all's input. I will be finding an alternative to 4427. Its still works nice in my 7-08. Just thought I would give it a try. And after yesterdays range time, which went worse than before, I will definitely be finding another powder. 4227 does NOT like cold or humidity which I had both of yesterday.