25 caliber bullet from rimfire case

[MightyThor]

As an experiment I decided to see if I could stretch a 22 rimfire out to 25 caliber. Sure enough, it stretched. Neat little pill.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5YVLklZjANuHJrwvl1p8f8joaufgdq_nccKYW 6fazrEby8wNHb1zaH_gTO4z0-Cyo

[Bret4207]

Betcha my 25-2o's would like that one. Look out Mr. Tree Rat!

[Salmon-boy]

Spectacular!! Good work!

[Adam10mm]

That's neat! How much does it way. I've been trying to figure out if I can use 22LR cases for 60gr .25cal bullets for my 256 Win Mag.2

[MightyThor]

That's neat! How much does it way. I've been trying to figure out if I can use 22LR cases for 60gr .25cal bullets for my 256 Win Mag.2

I am ashamed to say that I don't know what it weighs because I have a project going in my shop and can't get to any of my scales, or other stuff, it is all buried behind a bunch of plywood and stacked shelving. I can't even get to my supply of jackets so I had to scrounge this one off the floor of the truck, form it, heat it with the torch and then I melted the core in rather than swaging it and seating it.

The swage press is on the end of the bench and the dies are in a bin just underneath. The die is one of my old Hollywood dies and it forms the bullet a little different than other dies. There is no nose punch, the bullet is formed by bringing the two halves of the forming die together and after the nose is formed the bullet stays in the bottom part of the die and is ejected from the bottom by a flat punch that pushes on the base of the bullet.

[wonderwolf]

WOW, How thin are the walls? I wonder if you are gonna run into engraving problems with the rifleing? Just how much bigger do you think the case could be made?

[MightyThor]

She's mighty thin! Course I have shot plated bullets that were thinner. I guess the only real way to tell if there will be problems is to make some and shoot some. I would guess that this is about as big as you are gonna be able to stretch the cases. I did form two others, but messed one up trying to seat the core rather than melting the core in. With a core bonded to the jacket it might solve some engraving issues if they exist. I also think that Bullshop's two part bullet would be worth playing with in this caliber. My first rifle is a O3A3 springfield barreled for 257 Roberts with a cherry stock. My grandfather made the gun for me when I was 14 and made the bullets and ammo as well. This round nose bullet is from his dies, passed down to me. I still have a few of the shells he made.

[Rat-Man]

The die is one of my old Hollywood dies and it forms the bullet a little different than other dies. There is no nose punch, the bullet is formed by bringing the two halves of the forming die together and after the nose is formed the bullet stays in the bottom part of the die and is ejected from the bottom by a flat punch that pushes on the base of the bullet.

Thor,

I would like to see pictures of that die when you can find your stuff again.

Rat-Man

[MightyThor]

Thor,

I would like to see pictures of that die when you can find your stuff again.

Rat-Man

That part is easy cause the pictures are already up on the net. This is either the 30 cal set or the 25 cal set, I can't remember but they are the same as far as function.
http://www.antiquereloadingtools.org/discus/messages/8/1638.jpg
http://www.antiquereloadingtools.org/discus/messages/8/1639.jpg
http://www.antiquereloadingtools.org/discus/messages/8/1640.jpg
http://www.antiquereloadingtools.org/discus/messages/8/1641.jpg
The seating punch is obvious. the bottom die has the bottom punch built in and is spring loaded. The point form die mates with the bottom die and only the tip of the bullet goes into that die, from the ogive forward. after the point is formed the bullet stays in the bottom die and is lowered until the bottom punch pushes the bullet out by the base. It works well on jacketed bullets but not so well for swaging lead only bullets.

[Rat-Man]

Thor,

Thanks for the pictures, I was trying to figure out a way to make a point forming die. That is simple really if I understand the pictures, just core seat and expand the bullet with the open end sticking out then the other punch has the point ogive and mates with the other die.

One question I have is do you use a turret press and do one stag and then the next, or do you seat all the cores and then go back and do the point forming?


Rat-Man

[MightyThor]

Thor,

Thanks for the pictures, I was trying to figure out a way to make a point forming die. That is simple really if I understand the pictures, just core seat and expand the bullet with the open end sticking out then the other punch has the point ogive and mates with the other die.

One question I have is do you use a turret press and do one stag and then the next, or do you seat all the cores and then go back and do the point forming?


Rat-Man

That is how it works except that nothing sticks out the top. the core fits down inside the die and is pushed out by the bottom punch. As far as the order of things, I tend to do things in batches even when using the turret press.

[georgeld]

That's slick Thor.

Hey, I sent some of those v/g's to a guy that polished a few by hand just to compare
to factory.
IF I had your email handy I'd send the pics and you could post them here. I don't have
the mental ability to do so myself.

I like that shape on this one real well. Seems the brass jacket is more useful than we
figured it'd be. I never dreamed it would stretch out that far. Impressive.
I don't have a .25 cal, but, do have .243's so have been picking up mags as I can, and
lr's of course. Need to get back out there sooner than later.

Thanks for posting the die pics. Taking me awhile to figure it out. But, the way I
understand it now, the bullet is actually formed point down, right?
What about mashing to core's into the jackets, those upright, or open tip down too?

Thanks much,

[MightyThor]

On the Hollywood set up, the bullet is formed point up but what you have to remember is that the Hollywood press does not have a ram per se, it has a moving platform and the biggest die (the jacket holder) sticks down through a hole in the platform and the bottom punch is then actuated by a second platform or by pushing on the press base in the case of the Hollywood senior press. The Core seater die and the point form die are both 7/8 by 14 thread dies that screw into the normal die position on the top of the press.


I dug down to one of my scales last night and tossed this bullet on it. It came out to 71.6 grains. I need to get my hands on some 22 mag brass and see what can be done with that.

[johnly]

Do you just have the RN nose punch or are other styles an option?

I scrounged for years looking for some of the old Speer and Hornady 60 gr Spire point bullets for my 256 Winchesters. Any chance you could reform the 60 gr. Hornady Flat point into a more areodynamic shape? Pushing the 87 gr. Remington FP into spitzers would be heavenly for my 256 Maximum.

John

[MightyThor]

I only have the one die in 25 cal but I m certain you can have a die made in any configuration you want.

[Bullshop junior x2]

Looks perty goot.Did you swage off the rim? looks to me you didnt. We are making 6mm FLGC and we are swaging off the rim. acualy we are just useing 22 jackets, and saeting a 6mm core in to them and swaging up to diameter.
Tony

[dnepr]

Having a 250 savage I have always wondered if this would work. The 22 mag idea has me really thinking . time to dig up a 22mag shell from my collection and do some measuring.

[wonderwolf]

On the Hollywood set up, the bullet is formed point up but what you have to remember is that the Hollywood press does not have a ram per se, it has a moving platform and the biggest die (the jacket holder) sticks down through a hole in the platform and the bottom punch is then actuated by a second platform or by pushing on the press base in the case of the Hollywood senior press. The Core seater die and the point form die are both 7/8 by 14 thread dies that screw into the normal die position on the top of the press.


I dug down to one of my scales last night and tossed this bullet on it. It came out to 71.6 grains. I need to get my hands on some 22 mag brass and see what can be done with that.

After all this talk of .223 and 25 cal bullets I think I'm gonna start picking up .22mag brass at the range to just sit on for a while :Fire:

[MightyThor]

After all this talk of .223 and 25 cal bullets I think I'm gonna start picking up .22mag brass at the range to just sit on for a while :Fire:

Send me some and we will fill it with some lead and send some of it back :-D

[georgeld]

Thor:
seems as if 99% of the .22mag stuff on my range lately
is 17 HMR's instead of .22mags.

Do you have a pin to open these 17's up? IF so, I could send
some of them easy enough.

[MightyThor]

i don't have anything specific.

[georgeld]

Just thought a bit about making pointing dies the easy way.

Take a piece of all thread. Center drill to the proper depth on both ends.
Leave it that way on one end.

The other end, use a round end mill of proper dia to fit the hole. then just run it into the
hole until the hole is bottomed out and rounded up.
This will give you two bullet point shapes. Depending on how hard you mash it into the
center drilled hole whether it will have a tit point to it or not. IF you mash it in hard enough.
Count on it. But, would that hurt much?

You could make a whole set of various size's and shapes fairly cheap. All thread is sold by MSC, Wholesaletools and many others fairly reasonable in three ft lengths.

Believe I'll make a few in the next several days. Rest of this week is planned for medic's. IF I've recovered by the weekend, might do it then, or next week.

[wonderwolf]

Just thought a bit about making pointing dies the easy way.

Take a piece of all thread. Center drill to the proper depth on both ends.
Leave it that way on one end.

The other end, use a round end mill of proper dia to fit the hole. then just run it into the
hole until the hole is bottomed out and rounded up.
This will give you two bullet point shapes. Depending on how hard you mash it into the
center drilled hole whether it will have a tit point to it or not. IF you mash it in hard enough.
Count on it. But, would that hurt much?

You could make a whole set of various size's and shapes fairly cheap. All thread is sold by MSC, Wholesaletools and many others fairly reasonable in three ft lengths.

Believe I'll make a few in the next several days. Rest of this week is planned for medic's. IF I've recovered by the weekend, might do it then, or next week.


Not sure I follow, perhaps a picture of the end mill you speak of with some sketches would help?

[georgeld]

No big deal to figure there.

End mills are like drill bits, only with varied shapes to make groove's, or other shaped cuts.

Round ends are common. Look in any tool catalog and you'll find many different sizes'.

good luck,

[dnepr]

this discusion got me interested in the possibility of useing 22mag empties or 17 HRM empties to swage into j-words for my .250 savage. I found a couple websites with the dimensions on them I figured I would pass them on.
http://www.answers.com/topic/17-hmr
http://www.answers.com/topic/22-wmr
these dimensions look promising. something I will have to persue when I catch up on the rest of my projects

[wonderwolf]

DNEPR? you look like a Ural guy to me [smilie=1: :Fire:

[Wicky]

Thor - good stuff. I have played with the idea of making my own dies for reforming 22 cases this is just what I need to help me along, my wife will hate you but thats life!:mrgreen:

[dnepr]

DNEPR? you look like a Ural guy to me [smilie=1: :Fire:


no Urals yet just the Dnepr. If you have played with these Russsian motorcycles you will probably understand why the swaging project will have to wait.

[wonderwolf]

no Urals yet just the Dnepr. If you have played with these Russsian motorcycles you will probably understand why the swaging project will have to wait.

All I have right now is a honda, want a Ural kit bike ASAP though lol

[georgeld]

bikes?? Gosh, I'm thinking of Ultralites this summer!!

[Leftoverdj]

There was a set of dies on the market at one time to make .25 ACP bullets from shotgun primers. If the primers can be made into .251 jackets, surely they can be made into .258 jackets.

[floodgate]

leftoverdj:

Yes, Dave Corbin offered these+ (I was just reading about them in his book last night), and probably still does so. But they will be pretty short jackets for any but the lightest .25 rifle bullets.

Floodgate

[Bullshop]

I think the cup from shot shell primers is steel.
BIC/BS

[Leftoverdj]

Floodgate, it's the lightest of .25 cal bullets that are lacking. In the distant past, both Hornady and Speer offered 60 grain spire points that added about 50 yards to the useful range of .25-20s and .256s. It's a tiny niche, but those of us who used those bullets sadly miss them.

[Drilling Man]

I have been reading at this website on and off for quite a while now, but i just now registered so i could post...

Anyway, many years ago i had the bright idea to have a "K" frame S&W revolver built for me, chambered in 25/20 WCF for small game hunting.

http://www.fototime.com/12FAD71427E1990/orig.jpg

Once i had the revolver i needed bullets for it, and i wanted something heavier than the 60 grainers that were available, but they had to fit into the cylinder and be of a design that would transfer energy well at lower velocities. At the time i was "heavy" into shooting my 44 magnums competitively using Keith style bullets that i cast, and i got to thinking about a "Keith" style 25 cal. for my 25/20 revolver and came up with a design...

As i was fairly good friends with Ted Smith the bullet swage guru, the next time i was visiting him, i explained what i wanted and he made up a set of .257 swage dies with punches to swage a SWC in .257 while i was there... You can see them in this pict., it's the center loaded round...

http://www.fototime.com/015CC90320FBBEF/orig.jpg

And the bullet alone...

http://www.fototime.com/4BBBD6653183676/orig.jpg

I've also made lots and lots of them out of spent shot shell primers, but i don't have a pict. of them handy...

DM

[Bent Ramrod]

Drilling Man,

That's an interesting revolver. Did you have the barrel relined to .257" and the cylinder sleeved and rechambered? Or is it a rebored .22 Jet with the rimfire cylinder rechambered? Do you have any trouble with the shoulders pushing the .25-20 case back against the recoil shield and making the cylinder rotation difficult?

Inquiring minds, etc.

[Drilling Man]

Drilling Man,

That's an interesting revolver. Did you have the barrel relined to .257" and the cylinder sleeved and rechambered? Or is it a rebored .22 Jet with the rimfire cylinder rechambered? Do you have any trouble with the shoulders pushing the .25-20 case back against the recoil shield and making the cylinder rotation difficult?

Inquiring minds, etc.

The revolver started out life as a new "K" frame 38spl... and the bbl was relined. Then a "Jet" cyl. was fit and chambered to 25/20 WCF...

I don't have problems with "push back" BECAUSE i keep the chambers oil free and dry! That's important... I also don't try to fire max loads in it all the time either...

DM

[Bent Ramrod]

Drilling Man,

Thanks for the info!

[303Guy]

Lots of interesting stuff on this thread - even about Russian bikes!

For some reason, MightyThor , I cannot view your second lot of pics!:cry:

I have swage bullets from 22LR cases in 224cal by casting the core into the 'jacket'. I would like to know more about the 25 swaging. My swage die is a two-piece that I made. You can see my interest .... !

[MightyThor]

Lots of interesting stuff on this thread - even about Russian bikes!

For some reason, MightyThor , I cannot view your second lot of pics!:cry:

I have swage bullets from 22LR cases in 224cal by casting the core into the 'jacket'. I would like to know more about the 25 swaging. My swage die is a two-piece that I made. You can see my interest .... !

Yeah, those pics were on the antique reloading site and they had server issues a little while ago and lost all the old threads when they cleaned up the problems. I will try to repost if anyone wants to see old Hollywood dies and stuff.