S&W M&P 38 Special

[nickeda85]

Hello all. Been lurking around for a while and decided to bite the bullet and join. However I wish it were under better circumstances.
I recently became the proud owner of a S&W M&P revolver in 38 Special, circa early 1950's.
The gun appeared in excellent mechanical condition with a nice faded patina with no signs of holster wear or abuse. The gun featured fixed sights, the oddball 5" barrel (which I really liked), and nonfactory wood grips that fit the gun perfectly. All numbers matched and I would guess it had spent much of its life loaded in a drawer somewhere due to the brass cartridge head imprints at the rear of the frame. I was ecstatic to get such a great old gun.
Took my new acquistion home and the next morning gathered up the few 38 rounds I had left and proceeded to ventilate a gallon oil jug of water from 10 paces. The gun hit very much to point of aim for me, although my wife did not have as much luck, hitting high. The trigger in SA was crisp and light with the barest hint of takeup. DA was very smooth and controllable with no real issue keeping on target even when dumping a cylinder. Finished initial testing and the gun cleaned up nicely with no leading, was shooting some old Winchester 158 gr LRNs and remanufactured lead SWCs.
I could not have been happier with the performance, fit, and looks of this gun. Now the bad news...
I had been carrying the gun with me regularly and yesterday opened the cylinder to check my loads and noticed a small fuzz of cleaning fiber just inside the forcing cone. Closer investigation revealed a small notch at the rear of the cone and crack extending slightly up into the barrel. Needless to say I was mortified and immediately felt sick.
So, after some hasty research I signed up here with all of you knowledgeable people to ask the big question.
What hope is there for my old Smith? Please be gentle. [smilie=b:

-DN

[KCSO]

New barrel from GPC should put you back on the map in short order. I did the same thing to one in 1972 shooting old military hardball. Any decent gunsmith should be able to swap barrels for you the only downside is that GPC hasn't had 5 inch tubes in a while. you will have to go with 6 or 4.

[mark2935]

Welcome aboard. Maybe some one on this forum may have a barrel for you. Do a google search of "guns america" or "gun brokers". You may find a barrel on one of those sites.

Mark2935

[GLL]

DN:

Welcome !

Go over to the Smith & Wesson Forum and present your situation there. I think you will find someone with the appropriate barrel !

http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php

Jerry

[rintinglen]

There are hundreds. maybe thousands, of those barrels floating around as take-offs from PPC guns. E-gunparts almost certainly has some and I can not recall being at a gun show where at least one S&W barrel didn't turn up.

[bedbugbilly]

nickeda85 - welcome to the forum! You'll like here - lots of good folks!

Don't give up on the old M & P - as already mentioned, there are lots of old original barrels floating around for that as well as some new ones. If you like the 5" barrel, any good gunsmith should be able to shorten a 6" back to 5", re-crown and install the front sight.

I have a number of older vintage Smiths - my favorite of them all is my 5" M & P 38 spl. I was looking for a 4" but ran across the 5" and to me, it's an ideal length. I have a Colt Army Special and a M & P Target with 6" barrels - fine for range but I don't like packing them - my 5" carries well and shoots fantastic!

You don't mention the serial number on yours but mine is C 1847XX and it was supposed to have been shipped in 1952 - another reason I like it is because that was the year I was born.

As suggested already - go over to the S & W forum - easy to join and good folks as well. You can post a WTB as well as a thread on your handgun and the problem in the hand-ejector forum and ask about replacement barrels for it. I really don't think you'll have a problem finding one that will work and you'll soon have that fine old shooting iron spitting lead again! Good luck and let us know who ti comes out please!

[jonp]

DN:

Welcome !

Go over to the Smith & Wesson Forum and present your situation there. I think you will find someone with the appropriate barrel !

http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php

Jerry

My suggestion.

[35remington]

FWIW your Smith is not Plus P rated.

[Char-Gar]

Post a picture of your barrel. At one time, I have several 5" barrels to fit that pistol. It has been years since I have seen them, so they might have been sold or traded off. I would like to see what front sight is on the barrel and then I will look. No promises, but I will look.

[olafhardt]

FWIW your Smith is not Plus P rated.
I think the only reason these guns aren't rated for+p is that they were built before the +p designation was used. Unlike older k frames they were fully heat treated.

[Rustyleee]

It's a fine old lady, not a magnum. Enjoy it for what it is.

[wwmartin]

I don't know if still available But I bought a 5" new WWII surpluse barrel with pin of EB about a month ago for around $20. Search S&W barrels gun parts in EB There about half down the first page. Bill

[nickeda85]

Thank you all for your welcome and responses.
Today I spoke with the store owner where I had purchased the gun and she was very understanding and helpful, offering either a full refund or assistance from resident gunsmith at a second store.
I really like the gun and am leaning towards another barrel.

Char-Gar,
Thank you for your offer to delve into your stash. I will post pics when I can.
The sight is the half moon shape. Thanks.

DN

[35remington]

"I think the only reason these guns aren't rated for+p is that they were built before the +p designation was used. Unlike older k frames they were fully heat treated."

Heat treated does not mean hard metal. The metal hardness on Smiths of this vintage is not that of the later era guns, especially that of recent production. Concerns related have been in increased battering and shortened service life with extensive use of Plus P.

It is the guys who made them and who realize what the pressure difference is between standard velocity and Plus P that suggest that Plus P not be used as a regular diet in M and P's of this vintage. It's not Joe Zeeb from the street giving an opinion on the matter here, but rather Smith and Wesson themselves. It would be well to remember that.

This is of no real importance in terms of usability of the gun, as standard pressure .38s give fully adequate performance for any reasonable planned use including self defense.

[9.3X62AL]

I have done away with all 38 Special +P loadings in my ammo cabinets. None of my current flock of 38 Specials are rated for such loads, so they got run out through a borrowed recent Model 15 about 2 years ago. My current "38 +P"s consist of Magnum cases loaded with #358477 or #358429 running 900-1100 FPS.

[MtGun44]

New barrel will fix it up fine. The only issues are 1) get a quality workman to do the repair
and 2) it may be nearly impossible to match original style and patina. A new old stock
bbl may be located or used bbl of same era should be available, although if you wish
to stick with the 5" length, this will compound the difficulty significantly as 4" was by
far the most common, and then I would expect 6" next most common with 5" least.
But I am basing this on what I have seen, perhaps more 5" guns have been hidden
somewhere.

It may be helpful in your search to recognize that these are called "Model 10" in later
years and that the US Navy version (4") was called the Victory Model, although these
barrels will have a less polished external finish, usually parkerized, but will fit
the gun properly.

Again, trust this only to a pistolsmith who has been recommended as an expert with
S&W revolvers.

Good luck.

Bill

[nickeda85]

Gun returned to shop. Turned down the refund for now, at least until 'smith looks over and determines if the gun is salvageable.
Still on the hunt for a barrel. Thought had found a great deal on 5" barrels on Ebay until I noticed it was 38 S&W caliber.
The hunt continues...

[BLTsandwedge]

FWIW...I chose my Colt Police Positive in .38 S&W for my carry. "Why the hell...with so many better choices.....????"

First, I bought this revolver in CA as a curio for about $110.00. The bore is ugly- no doubt from mercuric primers. It functions like a Bulova. In CA you can't conceal-carry for any reason- if you are an average guy like me- with 11 years in the Army (as a CO I carried an 1911 'maraca' 'cause it would rattle that way) still...you just can't carry in CA period unless you are LEO.

Then I came to PA. Hate winter, love CCW. I don't have the money to rent office space downtown. So I rented in King of Prussia- not a bad neighborhood but the other companies on the floor do 'training' for strange people. There's no security and the walls are paper-thin. Penetration is an issue....I like some of my office neighbors. Out came the Colt Police Positive .38 S&W circa 1915.

The ugly Colt, with it's 4" BBL..at a cost of $110..does me just fine. I've loaded it with an oversized (.360" Lyman 358311) with a handful of Unique- the chrony tells me 641fps with an SD of 14. That'll go through a winter coat and allow me time to use my phone- with backup shots if necessary. If I have to use it (G_d forbid...OY!), I'll lose a very inexpensive revolver to the 'system' and be able to use something else in my collection....my beautiful 625, 610, 629, K14, K19? Never. My .38 S&W Lemon Squeezer? Perhaps.

Point is...what can you defend yourself with and to afford to loose to the court as 'evidence?'

Shalom!

[35remington]

How about some kind of flatpoint in that old 38 S&W wheelie instead of a roundnose icepick?

Several learned sources that post here have advanced the merits of a more effective bullet shape in an all lead bullet. You should take advantage of that. Enough penetration under all situations as opposed to too much under all situations, near or "full caliber crush" as Ed Harris terms it if you choose a seated out wadcutter, and an all around better bullet for the task.

If it's expendable at no loss of reliability that's one thing...... you also have a decision to make regarding whether another choice would have been more effective. I would prefer a properly loaded 38 S & W to a 32 or 380 for certain.

[BruceB]

I'd hate to get shot with a .38 S&W.

For my part, though, if ANY of my shooters had to be used in self-defense, I'd see it as a valid circumstance wherein it SERVED ITS PURPOSE, and if it disappeared into the grips of officialdom that would just be unfortunate.

Certainly, I would PREFER to retain it, but the fate of the gun AFTER it performs the function that I needed..... is really not too important to me. It would be a small price to pay for being alive.

Here in Nevada, I strongly suspect there would be no problem n getting the gun back from the "officials" once the investigation is done. (My daughter wrecked her Jeep one day, and a cop found a 9mm magazine in the wreckage. He went looking for the gun, found it on the ground, and brought it to her...."Here's your gun, Ma'am." I love this place.)

[nickeda85]

Well, finally picked up my S&W from shop on Friday. A used 5" barrel, off a later Model 10, from Ebay and a week at the 'smith and voila! Finish a little off and front sight the later ramped style of fixed, but initial shooting has me right at POA. Even found one of the boolits just lying on the ground (shooting thru bucket into old stump), nose a little mashed but otherwise intact. (Commercial 158 gr SWC, not mine.)
Used feeler gages to measure 0.006" cylinder gap and the work seems good as far as I can tell.
The old barrel had to have forcing cone ground off and crack barely visible at end of what's left.
I sure am glad to have it back and now need more ammo and a good shoulder holster.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and knowledge throughout this ordeal. [smilie=p:

[Petrol & Powder]

Glad you're back in business. The good news is it was a barrel and not the frame that cracked. The Model 10 is an American classic and a lot of fun to boot!

[1911cherry]

Good job saving that thing , seems like these days many people would have scrapped it , or turned in into a buy back. I saved an old M&P from a similar fate, it had been chopped. A couple of clicks on ebay and later I installed a 4 inch heavy barrel and new ejector assembly and have my new favorite handgun. They really are excellent shooters.

[nickeda85]

Almost forgot to mention that the shop I purchased from covered all expenses. Good customer service can be so hard to find.
I most certainly thanked them because they could have easily said I had bought it and was stuck with it. :Fire:

[olafhardt]

On the subject of rescuing old Smiths I traded for a model 1909 off a guy. It is in pretty good shape except for the replaced grips. This is the predecessor of the HE's, M&P's, K frames, model 10's etc. It is a first year of production with Maltese crosses, long trigger, no heat treat etc. I really like shooting this gun (no +P) and I would like to add it to my kit and shoot it regularly . I am not a collecter. I just traded it off a guy for some old pocket knifes and cash because I wanted a pencil barreled, medium framed, 38 special Smith. I don't want to use a historical gun. Should I trade it to a collector , sell it as a collectable, or just shoot it?

[MtGun44]

Stick by that shop, they did you right and deserve your business.

Good news, cast up some boolits and load up some fun ammo, and enjoy.

[9.3X62AL]

That is a shop deserving of all the business I could bring them. I'm very happy to read that your wheelgun is ready for range and field. I have grown quite fond of my bevy of 5" K-frame M&P (32-20, 38 S&W, and 38 Special), as well as a Colt Army Special x 5" in 32-20 that snuck in the safe's back door.