CH4D is taking orders for a new run of their #101 swage dies!!!

[tiger762]

I just got off the phone with Beth @ CH4D (740-397-7214). She said the dies are made just need to have final assembly performed. These calibers are available:

9mm
38
40
41
44
45

$250/set and will include both soft point and hollow point punches. There's a limited number available.

[ratboy]

this is good news. i was wondering if they would start making them again or if they were out of the swage die business.

[tiger762]

Just got an email to say that my 38cal #101 set has been shipped! $258.50 charge hit the credit card. I only ordered these three days ago. This is the way it should be.

[GRUMPA]

You wouldn't happen to have a link to those 38cal dies would you? I tried to get on there site and all it did was freeze up on me...

[tiger762]

They don't have them on their site. You have to call them. It was just a batch of swage dies they made up and are selling off until they run out.


You wouldn't happen to have a link to those 38cal dies would you? I tried to get on there site and all it did was freeze up on me...

[GRUMPA]

They don't have them on their site. You have to call them. It was just a batch of swage dies they made up and are selling off until they run out.

OH Krap-O-La I was hoping for some sort of info on those like nose profile and such..

[tiger762]

I already have their 44cal set. I assume they're probably all about the same shape. Kind of blunt BUT not wadcutter or SWC. There is a legitimate ogive applied to the jacket not just the lead. The jacket will not slam headlong into rifling like the WC's do. As long as you're using the riht length jacket for weight of core there will not be lead touching rifling. Here's a pic of a 240 grain made from an RCECO 44cal jacket (0.55")

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I went a little too far with the point forming, hence the lead that extruded into the ejection pin area. That wasn't the die's fault. Hope this helps...


OH Krap-O-La I was hoping for some sort of info on those like nose profile and such..

[oldrodder]

I have a set in .44 that dates back to the early 70's. I bought them at Giovanni's Gun Shop in Toronto for the princely sum of
$37. 95...........Canadian dollars no less! I use them with .40 cal brass jackets. I was offered the opportunity to double my money several times (LOL) but no thanks!
Mike

[tiger762]

HA! When I bought mine in 2000, I think they were $110 with one choice of ejector. I went with the soft point. Wished I had somehow paid extra for the hollow point as well. I measured the ejector diameter in this set. It is 0.312" (5/16). Is that what yours is as well? Wonder if they kept the same profile over the decades or have varied it.


I have a set in .44 that dates back to the early 70's. I bought them at Giovanni's Gun Shop in Toronto for the princely sum of
$37. 95...........Canadian dollars no less! I use them with .40 cal brass jackets. I was offered the opportunity to double my money several times (LOL) but no thanks!
Mike

[Utah Shooter]

Yup. Tracking says my 40 cal set should be here on Saturday as well.

[goblism]

I cancelled my order for a 44 set to get a bt sniper set, tempted to get a 357 set and later get a reducing die to do 355....hmm

[Utah Shooter]

Got mine today.:-P

[andyt53]

My dies were suppose to be delivered today. But USPS failed to deliver my products on the expected delivery date. Tracking still says departed usps facility in Columbus, OH. Was looking forward to having them today.

[ncbearman]

Ordered the 45 set today. My first stab at swaging. Very excited! I may dump everything and just be a .45 Colt, Ruger guy exclusive. Pistols, revolvers, levergun.

[tiger762]

If you like, I can send you a few different length 45cal jackets that I have from RCECO. I have 0.580" (use for 200-230 grain), 0.610" (for 250gr) and 0.680" (275-300gr). I think I have your address. I'll drop some in the mail and send 'em your way...


Ordered the 45 set today. My first stab at swaging. Very excited! I may dump everything and just be a .45 Colt, Ruger guy exclusive. Pistols, revolvers, levergun.

[goblism]

I have been thinking about getting rid of my 475 linebaugh and getting a 454 casull so that I can load 45acp, 45 colt, and 454 casull with one set of dies and varying jacket lengths.....only problem is that I love that linebaugh

[ncbearman]

If you like, I can send you a few different length 45cal jackets that I have from RCECO. I have 0.580" (use for 200-230 grain), 0.610" (for 250gr) and 0.680" (275-300gr). I think I have your address. I'll drop some in the mail and send 'em your way...

Thanks Keith! Let me know if you need my address. I also want to trim, anneal some .40 cases and try those also. Do you gents have a recommend for a starting core length/weight? I have a good adjustable 4c core mould already.

[Bonz]

I also want to trim, anneal some .40 cases and try those also.

Be careful, I don't think that these dies can handle the stress of swaging old brass cases. From what I have read, these "less expensive" swaging dies are for swaging bullets from pure lead & copper jackets.

[goblism]

The 101 series dies can handle jackets, the 105 dies need to use soft lead

[tiger762]

Yeah, shoot me your address. The 0.580" jackets weigh between 23.7 and 24.2 grains. So for 200gr I swage cores to have a finished weight of 176 and for 230gr I shoot for 206gr. I use a Lee 6-cavity 401-175 mold to cast cores for 200gr 45. Just ordered an NOE 5-cavity 363 200gr for making cores suitable for 230gr


Thanks Keith! Let me know if you need my address.

[ncbearman]

Be careful, I don't think that these dies can handle the stress of swaging old brass cases. From what I have read, these "less expensive" swaging dies are for swaging bullets from pure lead & copper jackets.

I wondered about that, but it looks like its being done. This is 9mm to 40 but it should be the same for 40 to 45. Annealing looks to be key. Ammosmith.......good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdzm7zM16r4

[gjemba]

I only have CH4D dies use .40 cases all the time for .44 and have not seen any problems. I do mill off the rim though and that may alleviate some pressure requirements and I do anneal them. This should probably always be done though.

[tiger762]

I started off with a #101 in 44cal and also used 40S&W brass. I'd use the vertical mill, vise, pair of parallels and an aluminum strip I drilled 10 0.424" holes in. The aluminum strip was to keep them all standing up. I'd stand the brass in each hole, with the parallels supporting them from beneath. Then hold them fast with the vise. Using a bottom cutting end mill, trim them down to around 0.5". If the brass is not held tight, the flutes of the end mill will rotate the brass, and usually leave the mouth of the brass looking like a blank that has been notched. On the one hand, it would make it more consistent to size the brass beforehand, but I usually elected to leave the brass in a swelled-out condition so that there's less difference between where I'm starting from (0.422"-0.424") and where I need to be (0.430")

If I had anything that shot 40cal, I'd be swaging 9mm brass like there's no tomorrow. Not sure about 40cal brass to 45. That's an awful big jump. The case head will stay at 0.423" and I suspect the end result will be egg-shaped.


I only have CH4D dies use .40 cases all the time for .44 and have not seen any problems. I do mill off the rime though and that my alleviate some pressure requirements and I do anneal them. This should probably always be done though.

[ncbearman]

So far so good. Have to load them and go down on the backside and throw a few out. My chrono is on backorder so I'll have to guess for now. These are right at 225gr.

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[tiger762]

Nice! Just as a sanity check, take a few diameter measurements and place it up against a straight edge to get an idea of how long the bearing surface is.

[ncbearman]

So far it looks like .305 and an overall of .670
*scratch that.........402 and .665

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Those look really great! Interested to see how they perform. Please keep us posted.

[Remiel]

do they make .223 dies?

[wonderwolf]

do they make .223 dies?
Nope

As a side note I'm still wondering what ratio of bearing surface (and location) is required to stabilize a bullet. I'm planning on playing with my 357 set some this weekend and seeing just how much bearing surface I get making 125gr bullets which is what I was planning on using the dies for....early tests were not pleasing. A larger nose/nose punch would help shift weight as would not using the HP punch.....ugh....nothing is ever simple.

[ncbearman]

For what its worth swaging info from a newb with the #101 CH4D .45 set with a full jacket hollow point. The core seated inside the .40 case/jacket. First I spent most of the day figuring out and understanding what is going on inside those dies when I pull that lever down (newb). Always lubing every time I ran a case up in there. This is where I am at now. I trim .40cal case to .760 de-burred then annealed until that sucker was bright red. I pour my cores to a length of .495 using soft/range lead. I am not using the core seat punch....:veryconfu In fact this is where I may need some wisdom and knowledge from those of you that have been doing this longer than me (which would be all of you) :shock: As you can see my core is almost the same length as my jacket/case. I saw no benefit even using the core seat punch. Now when I build an exposed tip, yes I could see it then. But for the full jacket I decided to bypass that step. So I then ran my HP die down until it crushed the jacket somewhat and then backed it off. Then I ran the jacket with the core in it all the way up and ran my HP punch down until it contacted the core. At this point I kept adjusting down until the the core completely swaged the jacket to the .451 finished od. There is a bearing surface of .310 and the boolit weighs right at 230gr

Below are some pics I took. Please, please let me have it. I want to hear any and all comments/suggestions. I didn't "clean" these jackets but now that I know where I am and once you guys agree I am on the right path I will do a batch thoroughly and load em' up and head down to the backside and see how they do. Thanks.

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[tiger762]

Hmmm, well my only concern is the HP punch is the "tip of the spear" so to speak, doing the work that the 1st die is designed to do, swell out the brass to near finished diameter. I've noticed with my 38 and 44 cal CH4D sets that the 1st die does not go the full diameter. A couple of thousandths shy of it. The HP punch really is just to form the point. Now if CH4D were to make a conical punch for the 1st die, instead of the concave one they ship with, I think that would get you to where you're wanting to be, i.e. having lead below the jacket mouth. Either a conical or a step diameter punch like my RCECO 45cal set included. When I make 200gr with 0.58" jackets, the lead is most certainly below the mouth. 230gr with the same jacket length is right at the mouth after the core seat process. The concave punch that CH4D uses also have a tiny (0.03"?) diameter bleed off hole for uniforming the core. By using fired pistol brass the final weight is already going to be variable, so ending up with exactly the same weights is not really going to happen anyway.

I think my only concern is that the HP ejector is being called on to do what the 1st die is designed to. I'm intrigued by your progress though. Might try it myself to make less lead exposed.

[ncbearman]

I started to use the first/seat die but the configuration of the core and jacket didn't allow this. As you can see the dia. of the die and jacket are about the same. So my thinking on it was that the core seat die is to be used for a lead tip exposed boolit. That would allow the punch to do its job by swaging the lead and it forcing the annealed jacket out to the inside dimension of the die. In the case of trying to make a full length jacket there is no core exposed beyond the end of the jacket to swage. I'm not a metallurgist by any means, but it seemed to me the hotter I got the case/jacket when annealing the easier it was to swage with the point form die.


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For some reason I lean toward the lead tip boolits. I was trying to see what could be done with this set of dies. BT asked the question about whether a full length jacket could be done with the CH dies and I set out to the best of my limited knowledge to see if it could. Apparently it can. The only issue being is the core bonded enough to the jacket to stay in place. But then I am ringing steel and punching holes so it should be fine for my needs. Now the full length jacket combined with BT's notch die would be sweet.

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Another thought I had was to take the finished boolit and run it up into the core seat die to round off the tip as a finishing touch.

[Utah Shooter]

Not to be rude but I am not seeing a full metal jacket on those my man. Also you can get one of ch4d blanking crimp dies to make your hollow points notched. Check it out... https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/bc I would say BC044 would work for your .45 acp.

[tiger762]

Not to be rude but I am not seeing a full metal jacket on those my man.

I think what he means is the jacket is the full length of the bullet, unlike a half-jacketed or 3/4.


Also you can get one of ch4d blanking crimp dies to make your hollow points notched. Check it out... https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/bc I would say BC044 would work for your .45 acp.

Nice! Been wanting to make notched hollowpoints. It looks like that die reduces the diameter as well as crimps it. Will have to call Dave and see what he recommends for 45cal...

[Bonz]

My 45's do not like to feed bullets that have exposed "pure lead", guess not slippery enough... And of course, the 5 bhn lead flattens a bit when it hits the feed ramp.

[ncbearman]

Not to be rude but I am not seeing a full metal jacket on those my man. Also you can get one of ch4d blanking crimp dies to make your hollow points notched. Check it out... https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/bc I would say BC044 would work for your .45 acp.
Sorry....................wrong terminology. What is the correct name for the boolit I have displayed?


My 45's do not like to feed bullets that have exposed "pure lead", guess not slippery enough... And of course, the 5 bhn lead flattens a bit when it hits the feed ramp.
So your .45's don't feed cast boolits? Mine love em'.

[tiger762]

This page here has got a lot of diagrams and such: http://www.corbins.com/design.htm

[Utah Shooter]

Sorry....................wrong terminology. What is the correct name for the boolit I have displayed?


Its all good. We all learn as we go. You are making jacketed hollow points.

[ncbearman]

You know for a long time now I am of the school of you get what you pay for. My wife doesn't agree with this theory but more times than not its true. I'm beginning to see why BT's dies cost more than CH4D. As I'm tapping on the punch to get it out the allen has worked itself out and dropped the whole thing. I think I should have kept saving and just waited to buy BT's dies. Oh well.....

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[andyt53]

What about putting some thread locker on the allen set screw?

[ncbearman]

What about putting some thread locker on the allen set screw?

I thought about something like that but it came with the flat nose punch too. So I still need to be sure I can get the allen screw loose if I want. Unless I just go HP's all the time [smilie=s:

[andyt53]

Use the blue thread locker, or whichever color it is thats not meant for a permanent install. Even then, red will come undone with a quick heat up from a heat gun. In fact, I'm gunna go out and thread lock mine right now before it falls off. I dont ever plan on using the flat nose punch.

[ncbearman]

Use the blue thread locker, or whichever color it is thats not meant for a permanent install. Even then, red will come undone with a quick heat up from a heat gun. In fact, I'm gunna go out and thread lock mine right now before it falls off. I dont ever plan on using the flat nose punch.

Good to know. Thanks. I'll do that.
If your not gonna change yours out what about a button of JB Weld on the allen screw?

[andyt53]

I suppose that would work also. But I personally would rather use thread locker. Its made to do just that, "lock" threads. Plus, if I ever got the bug to change from a HP to flat, I can easily do it. To each his own though.

[andyt53]

Well I decided to try the flat nose punch. Thread locker held up good until I removed the set screw. Now does anybody know how I could harden the punches that came with my dies? I realized just how soft it is. The set screw dug into the hollow point punch and required a fair amount of force to remove. Could I just heat it to cherry red then dip and swirl in oil until cool to harden it?

[ncbearman]

No chrony and no way to recover but not bad so far from 20 yds. The #101 sizes to .451 but my 1911 likes .452 cast. I can get better groups at 20 yds. with cast. But thats 1000's rounds shot. I've only shot 6 of these.

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