RCBS, the first press

[Pressman]

A week or so back (I cannot find the original thread) IllinoisCoyoteHunter posted a picture of his RCBS presses all lined up so pretty on his bench. He had finally located the A3. I just had to point out that he was still missing three presses. An A2, (there are two distinct A2 models) the early pre-A and the welded frame press. He replied that he would really like to see one. In years past I used to travel a lot to his part of Illinois, but these days I am confined to Iowa. So here is a couple of pictures. But the coffee is always on.

The welded frame was the first press RCBS offered for sale. This was just after WWII ended as material was becoming available. 1947 till 1951 when the first cast frame came out. It was the beginning of the swing link design, though the final design of the pivot block would elude them for several more years. To get going on press development without investing in more expensive casting the first presses were welded from steel bar stock. The quality of the work was excellent, just as we expect from them. While no one knows with any certainty how many welded presses were made, the best guess is maybe 50 max.

They are not marked except with a patn't pending on the top. They were painted in some shade of very dark, blue/green paint. The handle has a Schwinn bicycle handle bar grip. It uses the long shellholder of the pre-A and the A, 2A. There is also a removable die bushing that carried through the A presses.

Anyone familiar with the early RCBS press designs, those that are called pre-A, can immediately spot the linkage and ID the press. Otherwise it could be mistaken for a home shop project.

The paint used on these presses caused me some grief in taking pictures. It soaks up light like a sponge. I finally had to use a flash set to medium-high power along with my light box and still had to add light in photoshop. Just to get some detail visible.

Ken
129290129291

[CastingFool]

Cool! How old do you think that press is?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Now THAT is a thing of beauty!!!

Ken, thanks so much for posting this and supplying the historical background of this gem. Someday if I am in your neck of the woods I will shoot you a PM. If you got the coffee I will bring the donuts!

[Iowa Fox]

Thanks for posting those pics. I really enjoy finding old reloading equipment and bringing it back to life. I retired 5 years ago, our territory was Eastern Ia, Central IL to Indiana, and NW Missouri. I was out every day and found a lot of stuff. I still find a few odds and ends but its much slower going not being out everyday.

[HGS]

Pressman

I looked over my rcbs 1st model welded frame press, and it matchs the one you have pictured, pat. pending on the top, dark colored green paint, but has Oreville calif. embossed on the front. Variation or different model??

HGS

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Different model I bet. Probably one of the 2 versions that came after the original and before the A. Does it look like this : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?191954-Another-RCBS-press-I-need-help-Identifying&p=2129135&viewfull=1#post2129135

The frame on this one is not welded, though. I would like to see a pic of yours HGS

[HGS]

ICH;

You're spot on with your press info, I had to move some tooling and a lathe to get to my rcbs display. The welded frame was not welded but looked like it from a distance and it perfectly matched the up swing press on the link you provided. Thanks alot, now I have another rcbs press to look for.


HGS

[LUBEDUDE]

That looks likes mine too ICH and HGS, someone painted it yellow.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Yellow!!??!!

What were they thinking!!!!!!!!!

[LUBEDUDE]

Yellow!!??!!

What were they thinking!!!!!!!!!

I reckon it needed to match all of the Smart Loader equipment on their bench.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Hehehe....

[Ken in Iowa]

Wow, incredible stuff. Your collection must be something to behold Pressman.

greetings from Ankeny!

another Ken

[Pressman]

Ken In Iowa

I am close to you, A couple of blocks south of 1st street on Delaware.

Ken

[Ken in Iowa]

Ken In Iowa

I am close to you, A couple of blocks south of 1st street on Delaware.

Ken

Indeed! About 3 miles. Sent you a PM

[too many things]

RCBS is like Remington maybe why both are green. Both make good stuff but they copycat everything . and tried like Remington to make it cheaper.
Lyman on other hand made some of the best and first . when they dropped the AA was a sad time .

[Sgt Petro]

Really nice! Thanks for posting this.

[bedbugbilly]

Ken .. . great information - thanks for sharing! Loved the photos of that press!

I have a question . . . I have a Jr A2 (cast) and a Jr A3 (actually 2 A3s). One of the A3s, when I purchased it used, came with the parts manual/catalog and sales flier for 1963. The Jr A2 has a lighter shade of green paint which I believe to be the original finish and is in very good shape. I'm assuming the Jr A2 was dropped when the Jr A3 with the heavier handle was added to the line - is that correct? My Jr A2 still has the smaller diameter handle. It's also my understanding that if you had the Jr A2, you could send it back to RCBS (I'm talking years ago) and have them convert the pivot block and handle to the larger diameter handle. If Im reading your post correctly, the cast Jr A2 came out about 1951? I'm sure mine probably post dates that but do you know what years the Jr A2 (cast) was produced or the year it was dropped from the line?

Like other companies - I'm sure that RCBS had Jr A2 frame castings on the shelf that had the A2 on the casting - during the transition, were these converted to A3s and shipped until the new castings with the A3 on them were what was coming from the foundry? Just curiosity on my part.

I love my Jr A2 and A3s and would be lost without 'em! Thanks for any information you can provide - greatly appreciated!

[Pressman]

Billy, good questions. The Jr press was the result of a big marketing oops on RCBS's part with the Model B. Intended to be a smaller, less costly alternative the the Model A and compete in a growing market for medium priced, quality reloading tools the Model B with its cast steel frame and rather odd ram design turned out to be equally as costly to build as the Model A. In order to get a press to market as quickly as possible the decision was made to make a copy of the proven Pacific design, sort of. At that time, 1958-1959, there were plenty of Pacific copies but none using a closed or "O" frame design. RCBS would be first. Fred Huntington had an issue with frame stretch that again played out with the A2 press. But we won't go down that rabbit trail right now. A design was quickly approved and manufacturing was out sourced to the EC Herkner Company. This was done mainly to get to market quicker. Herkner was making his own Pacific press copy at the time under the ECHO name. The new press would be called Jr2. That is Junior press attempt #2. These early Heckner made presses are easily identified by the green/white speckled paint. Another RCBs first was the pivot block. RCBS research had determined that most people preferred down stroke operation, but to cater to those who felt the original Pacifc was best the blocks were drilled and tapped to be convertible to up stroke if the owner preferred.

The relationship was short lived, RCBS needed more control over quality and Heckner was a bit eccentric. The first RCBS produced Jr2's have a dark green paint. RCBS was still experimenting with paints and colors at this time. By 1965 they had the paint color worked out. The next change to the Jr2 was the front strap profile. it was changed from a two step to a 1/4 round profile that is stronger though I suspect that the change was more about reducing production costs. A 1/4 round is easier to cast and finish.

A problem with the Jr2 design was beginning to show up. To RCBS there should be no problems. All, or nearly all, presses from everyone using the Pacific design had a 9/16" diameter handle with a 1/2" thread. The shoulder at the end of the thread is a weak point and can break. It is not common but it can and did happen. To fix the problem RCBS enlarged the thread to 9/16" and had no more complaints. This press became the Jr3. For good customer relations RCBS would replace the pivot block and handle at no charge if the press was returned to them. If any Jr2 frames were sold with the new handles is not known, though I suspect not.

At the same time another attempt was made to enter the low cost market with a quality press. To do this the frame was made of aluminum. The alloy Jr2's were completed right up to point of being shipped to dealers when the project was cancelled. Only a handful alloy presses survived, each has the year of production stamped on the top of the frame, 66. This was the first year for stamping the production year.

From the beginning RCBS marked the Jr2 and Jr3 as a complete kit; press, shellholder, dies and lube as a Reloader Special. Thus the Jr3 became the Model RS with no other changes.

There are some transition dates that I am not certain of and cannot be completely nailed down without looking at the RCBS archives. Someday...


Ken

[Rory McCanuck]

Once again, Thank You Pressman!

[M-Tecs]

Fred Huntington had an issue with frame stretch that again played out with the A2 press. But we won't go down that rabbit trail right now.
Ken

Ken

You can't tease us like that. Please do tell the story.

[bedbugbilly]

Ken - thank you very much for taking the time to explain all that - I find it very interesting! I will probably never "collect" presses (at my age) but I sure do enjoy learning about them and the history behind them - thanks so much for sharing!

Jim

[lpspinner]

I like seeing the history of these presses. The oldest press I own is an RCBS A1. That is also the heaviest press I have. I have toyed with the idea of using it. I'm impressed with the over engineering of the product. Even the pin (if you can call it that) is massive for what it does.

Does anyone know if the larger size dies are still available and for what caibers?

[seagiant]

Hi,
Saw a pic for the first time, from a old early 60's reloading book and it was love at first sight!

Took me a few years to find my A2 but she's my favorite press!

Old pic, now have the original primer arm and spring! Thanks to members here!!!

[nhmikel]

I recently bought a used Rock chucker II to start out in this new arena. How old is this one?

[GLL]

Hi,
Saw a pic for the first time, from a old early 60's reloading book and it was love at first sight!

Took me a few years to find my A2 but she's my favorite press!

Old pic, now have the original primer arm and spring! Thanks to members here!!!

Two of my very favorite presses !
I am especially fond of the "little blue one" on the right and own a couple myself. :)
Yours even has the little primer box. Nice !

http://www.fototime.com/AFA972EA97D73DB/orig.jpg

Jerry