question on dies for 45 Colt (Long) and 45 Schofield re-loading

[bedbugbilly]

Long story short - my bucket list for this year includes getting set up to load two calibers with a historical background - the 32-20 and the 45 Colt. I'm pretty well set up on stuff needed for the 32-20 but have a question on the 45 Colt / 45 Schofield and dies.

I currently load 38 Colt Short, Long and Special in black powder so am very familiar with compressed loads, etc.

I plan on getting a Uberti Cattleman - 4 3/4" in 45 - loading both smokeless and BP. I'm not interested in loading hot smokeless loads and while I want to certainly try the traditional 45 Colt Long (40 grains of holy black) - I still want to have some reduced loads for general plinking and playing.

I was able to get 45 Colt Star Line casings but discovered that I should have picked up some 45 Schofield casings as well for the shorter length. So, I'll also try and pick up some 45 Schofield casings for making reduced BP loads. Anyway . . . my question is about dies . .

According to Wikipedia (I'm in AZ and my manuals are back in MI) the overall case length is

45 Colt (Long) 1.600 and the 45 Schofield 1.100 - a difference of .500

I was able to purchase a decent used set of Lyman 45 Colt dies - (part # 7462323)

For molds, I want to try the Lee 452-160-RF (cowboy boolit) as well as possibly the Lee 452-200-RF and Lee 452-255-RF at some point down the road.

My question in regards to the Lyman dies I purchased is if with the above boolits I'm talking about, will this standard 45 Colt set of dies work as far as the expander die (stem length) and the seating/crimp die for the .500 shorter Schofield casing?

Removing the expander stem and laying it along side the die, it appears there is enough length to the expander plug to do the Schofield casing. Removing the seating stem from the seating die and laying it along side the die, it appears there should be enough adjustment to seat a lead boolit in the casing to the correct seating depth. BUT, removing the seating stem and inserting the 45 Colt (Long) casing inside, I question if the 45 Schofield casing will go into the die far enough to roll crimp?

I like to seat and crimp in two different steps on straight walled cartridges. So, if the Lyman 45 Colt die is not going to work for the Schofield crimp - what die should I be looking for to do the crimp on the Schofield casings? Or, should I pick up a stray Lyman seating/crimp die and have the length turned down .500 or so, remove the seating stem and use on the Schofield casings? Or, are their different (other than Lyman) dies I should be looking at? I wondered whether a 45 ACP crimp die would work but they are usually a taper rather than a roll crimp.

I ask this question as i know that Lee has a separate set of dies for the 45 Colt and the 45 Schofield. They do for the 38 Colt Short and Long as opposed to 38 special / 357 as well but in the 38 Colt Short & Long set, dies from other sets are used such as the same sizing/de-priming die as 38/357, if I remember correctly a 9mm expander die with powder through expander switched out and a 9mm seating die.

So . . . for those that load both 45 Colt and 45 Schofield . . what are you using and what works best? Any help/suggestions as to what would work best in terms of these two different casing lengths would be greatly appreciated.

[DougGuy]

My Lee .45 Colt expander won't expand a .45 Win Mag brass @ 1.198" much less a Schofield brass. I could probably load Schofield with .45 ACP dies.

.45 Colt case is only 1.285"

[StrawHat]

I do not have my dies handy to me at this moment but if I recall correctly, I ground off some of the die to make it work with both cases. Don't know if I needed to or not, but I did grind the bottom.

Another case that is fun to work with in the big Colt is the 45 Cowboy Special. Basically, it is a 45 long Colt but only the length of the 45 ACP case. Load it with 45 AC dies and recipes but with a 45 long Colt shellholder.

Kevin

[cajun shooter]

I loaded both 45 Colt and 45 Schofield for SASS but I had two separate die sets, I still have a Lee set of carbide dies for the Schofield if you are interested.
I don't think it's possible to file down a 45 Colt die to load the Schofield and then still be able to use it for the 45 Colt. Later David

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks fellas for the info - greatly appreciated.

DougGuy . . you are so very right on the 1.285 case length of the 45 Colt. I don't have my manuals here in AZ and I "mis-read" the specs on the Wikipedia site - the cartridge overall length was below the case overall length and I read the wrong line. I'm old . . that's my excuse! LOL

According to the specs - there should be .185 difference in the lengths of the Colt & Schofield - 1.285 (Colt) versus 1.100 (Schofield). I'll see if I can scare up a 45 Colt seating die body and maybe I can get someone to chuck it in the lathe and with a carbide cut-off tool, trim it back the .185. If I don't have any luck with that - I'll let you know cajun on your set of Lee dies.

StrawHat - until I read CharGar's post over in the wheel gun section I didn't know that they made a 45 Cowboy Special case - looks like fun and a good way to use reduced loads.

So, I'm guessing that if I can eventually come up with some of the 45 Colt Cowboy Special brass I'm going to be needing a set of 45 ACP dies as well. And here I foolishly thought that adding the 32-20 and the 45 Colt was going to be a "simple" thing! :-) Should have known it's all part of the same "addiction" associated with the hobby!

Another thought . . . perhaps a better decision would be to purchase the RCBS Carbide "Cowboy" die set that describes it as being for the 45 S & W Schofield & 45 Colt? Since all I'll be shooting is cast? Midway lists the set at $64.00 - regardless of what I do, I'll have to have a set of 45ACP if I use the 45 Cowboy Special cases at some point. I'll be batch loading the 45 on a single stage and seat and then crimp with the seating stem removed - it would eliminate the need for a separate or altered crimp die for the Schofield. Your thoughts on the dies?

Thanks.

Jim

[DougGuy]

bedbugbilly, dang man I sent cajun shooter a PM on the Schofield dies before I read your reply to that part. If you want them I won't get them but if you don't take them I'd like to have them, I got a Schofield project working too. BUT.. I do have a lathe and can help if you need to modify a die or two. I will be modifying a collet crimp die for my Schofield loads, real similar to the die that I modified in this thread for .45 Colt: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

[bedbugbilly]

DougGuy - no sir - you take 'em! No problems in regards to that at all and hope they work good for you.

I just purchased a set of used RCBS 45 Colt dies and a set of CH 45 ACP dies on the WTS section at very reasonable prices. I figured the 45 ACP dies I'll just set back on the shelf and once I get going with the 45 and can get some of the short Cowboy Special casings - I'll adapt them to that.

The RCBS 45 Colt dies I'm thinking that I will probably have the expander die and the seating die cut off for the Schofield length. I deprive all of my reloading brass with a universal de-primer die. So, I'll remove the de-capping pin and leave the die body alone on the sizing die as it will work OK for all three lengths. Then, the expander die and the seating die will work of the Schofield - I should be able to adjust the seating stem down to seat then remove it and adjust the die body for the crimp.

A lot of the fun in all of this is just figuring out how to get set up, how to adapt to what I need and then playing until I can get it to work. I think at times I almost enjoy the fooling around with the dies and reloading as much or more than the actual shooting . . then of course . . there is the casting! LOL

Will send you a quick PM in case you don't catch this. Thanks for all the help - once I get all of the stuff together and see what's what, I may hire you to cut those dies off! :-) Thanks again!