Squib loads and other oddities

[Molly]

This thread should be used to report on anything REALLY strange that you've worked up and really enjoyed ... or just want to post as a bad example. Examples might include glubolits (already covered on another thread), plastic bullets, rubber bullets, wooden bullets, squib loads for indoors or outdoors, squirrel loads for your 45-70, blanks, COW loads, Home cast reloading dies, subcaliber loads, as well as oddities that I don't have the imagination to bring to mind right now.

The usual caveats apply in spades: the results herein - though generally considered safe and low pressure unless otherwise noted - are for your consideration and entertainment only. They were obtained using components and barrels that are by no means guaranteed to match yours. If you decide to emulate anything on this thread, you are urged to err on the side of safety at all times, and are warned that you are solely responsible for the results of your loads.

[Molly]

I'll start off with a real favorite of mine: I was trying to develop a really minimal recoil load for a 32 ACP - though darned if I can remember why now. But I kept moving to lighter and lighter bullets, and had to keep using higher and higher charges to cycle the action. I'd gotten down to a single buckshot, swaged in a sizer to give it a pointed shape for feeding, and was still getting more recoil that I thought it otter have. Well, one can't get much lighter that that with a lead bullet, so after a bit of thought, I dug a 0.3125" aluminum rod out of the scrap box, and cut off a length equal to a factory bullet. This was chucked about an eighth or 3/16 inch in the lathe chuck, and the nose was tapered for feeding and turned to a slip fit in the bore. I repeated for a dozen bullets or so, and started loading them. It took a full case of bullseye - level with the mouth of the case, and compressed by the 'bullet' to get the action to eject and feed from the clip reliably. No, I'm not going to give more details. Recoil was minimal, but the enthusiasm of the load was considerable, so I chronographed it. MV was in excess of 2000 FPS, despite the 3" barrel and unflattened primers. A quick tweak of the calculator said that I was developing more ME than most factory 38 specials. Not too bad for a clunky old 32, was it?

[Molly]

Another squib load that I found useful for small game was based on the patched round lead ball of muzzle loaders. I got lazy one night, and wanted to keep shooting in the basement even though I'd run out of regular lightweight cast bullets. Just for the heck of it, I pushed a double-ought buckshot down into a .38 special case, making it a tight fit with some cleaning patches. I wa rather surprised at how well it worked over a couple grains of bullseye.

Intrigued, I started trying it in rifles too. And it continued to work well. The trick is to use the nearest size shot or buckshot to the proper caliber, and patch it up to fit. I use some grease (usually crisco) to lube the patch, and waterproof the round. Accuracy is 'minute of squirrel' through 35 or 40 yards, just depending on the powder charge and how tightly you can patch it. Sometimes the accuracy is considerably better! But POI is low with any gun that develops significant recoil from normal loads. Sound is very low. You can shoot these (with light charges) in the basement while the wife's bridge club is being held upstairs. (I've done it!)

[redneckdan]

I've used the speer plastic bullets with primer power in a .45 acp I found out the hard way that they do have enough power to penetrate a full laundry detergent bottle at 30ft. Jen happened to walk in the front door about 30 seconds after the detergent started spilling across the floor. So there I am, pistol and leaky bottle in hand, mess on the floor, room smells like gun shot...she was not impressed.[smilie=1:

[Molly]

I've used the speer plastic bullets with primer power ...

Yeah, I was having a lot of fun with them in a little 357 Martini carbine once. Decided to see how much oomph they really had, so I picked up a sizable Idaho and set it on the fence post. First shot with a Speer Plastic bullet split it in half. It's been a while, but I may have been using a pinch of Bullseye too. (Pinch = 1/2 frain or 1.0 grain).
Molly

[singleshotbuff]

My favorite squib load (as of this moment) for my 8X57mm consists of the following. An unsized case (fireformed to the chamber) with the primer pocket drilled out to 1/8" (I think). A Win large rifle primer. 5grs of bullseye. A Hornady #00 buck pellet seated just below flush with the casemouth and 50/50 alox lube applied over the ball.

It shoots to point of aim at 25 yards or so, is minute of beer can accurate, and is cheap to shoot, with no recoil and minimal noise.

It's also very easy to assemble. No case sizing required, just punch out the primer with an old decapping rod, then reprime. Powder charges are thrown with a Lee safety powder measure. Seat the ball with a flat piece of steel in a press and apply the lube by pressing the casemouth into the lube stick.

SSB

[Molly]

My favorite squib load (as of this moment) for my 8X57mm consists of the following. An unsized case (fireformed to the chamber) with the primer pocket drilled out to 1/8" (I think). A Win large rifle primer. 5grs of bullseye. A Hornady #00 buck pellet seated just below flush with the casemouth and 50/50 alox lube applied over the ball.

It shoots to point of aim at 25 yards or so, is minute of beer can accurate, and is cheap to shoot, with no recoil and minimal noise.

It's also very easy to assemble. No case sizing required, just punch out the primer with an old decapping rod, then reprime. Powder charges are thrown with a Lee safety powder measure. Seat the ball with a flat piece of steel in a press and apply the lube by pressing the casemouth into the lube stick.

SSB

Hi SSB,

That's a kissin' cousin for one of my favorites: A 000 buckshot pressed down in a 38 or 357 case over up to a grain of Bullseye (depends on anticipated range), with a smear of Crisco to fill up the space between the ball curvature and the mouth of the case. Shoots a bit low, but is accurate, cheap and easy, just like yours. Same technique works great with most other cases too, but sometimes you have to patch the buckshot to get it to fit other calibers.

[Bret4207]

Made up a bunch of "cats sneeze" type loads for the 32-20 in a Stevens 44 using the lyman 311316 and a leetle teeny bit of BE. Tried them out one very cold (-30) day. Shot at freckle on a Beech tree. Anyone from up north knows the rest of the story. The boolit bouched (!!!!) off the tree, hit the guard rail behind me and then hit the car! (BTW- did I mention I was at work?) I checked high and low but couldn't find a mark on the car. 3 months later I did find a tiny divit in the rear quarter. "Must be a stone chip Sarge"......

[Molly]

... Shot at freckle on a Beech tree. Anyone from up north knows the rest of the story. The boolit bounced (!!!!) off the tree, .....

Rofl! Reminds me of the time (MANY years ago) when I was just old enough to be dangerous to myself, I picked up an old colt .32 revolver somewhere, but didn't know the right ammo for it. I took it to a store, and the clerk found that he had two different types of 32 ammo: 32 S&W Long and 32 Colt Long. Obviously, the Colt ammo was for the Colt revolver ........ Back home, I went up on the hill and took aim at a mark on a red oak tree. I actually shot it six times, and ejected the shells. I didn't understand why the shells expanded so much, but what did I know? I reloaded and took aim again. Bang! Whap! I clutched my ribs and said a number of inelegant things.

Hmmm. That in turn, reminds me of the time I'd made friends with a local gunsmith, and spent an inordinate amount of time hanging around his shop. One day, he invited me to have a go at correcting the bent lips on the clip of a 25 ACP. When I had them looking pretty good, he invited me to take a few shots to be sure it feed properly. When I asked him where I should shoot it, he said to just put a few slugs into an oak plank he had leaning against the shop wall. Again, it was a case of Bang! Whap! I clutched my ribs and said a number of inelegant things again. Investigation revealed that the seasoned oak plank was hard enough that the puny .25 ACP slug would dent, but wouldn't penetrate. But the slug had enough energy to bounce off with some enthusiasm! Since I was standing about two feet away, I was pretty hard to miss .... But having shot myself with one at a range of two feet, I was - and am - completely unimpressed with the round. I suspect I'd take it as seriously antisocial it someone popped me with one.

You know, it shouldn't be so dang hard to break the habit of shooting myself ... (BG)

Molly

[Molly]

Oh, one more little item: When I was living in the country, my shop had a series of pretty tall plexiglass windows on one wall. They were nice, but had an unforunate tendency to gather all the insects that flew into my shop, and were seeking a way out. They varied from common farm flies to wasps and hornets.

I eventually got tired of the odor of insecticide, and decided to try for an innovative solution. I was playing with COW at the time, and the idea of a a .357 shot load using COW for shot struck me as worth trying. I loaded up a series of rounds with increasing quantities of Bullseye, followed by a case full of COW, and a thin wax wad to hold it together. Too light a charge, and it just scattered dust everywhere, but I did reach a point where one shot did an outstanding job of clearing off half the window. Two shots, and I had a clean window, essentially bug free. Great!

I was being visited by a fellow gun nut from out of state, and told him about my innovative solution. It wasn't long before I was challenged to demonstrate, so we went out to the barn and I loaded a couple of rounds. I dropped them in to a cylinder, and took aim. POW! And the top half of one of the windows shattered like I'd but a brick through it! (Blush!) Never did figure out exactly why (I wasn't inclined to experiment further) but as near as I can work it out, I must have used a heavier wax wad on the last load, which could have developed just enough resistance to compress the COW into a solid wad.

Ya know, it shouldn't be so durn hard to quit the habbit of making such a darn fool of myself either. At least not in public!

Molly

[wonderwolf]

I dunno how many of you know about the history of the Thunderzap bullet ( I've met and talked to the patent holder great guy, gave me bad ideas though :Fire:) . But We got a plastic supply place in town that carries all sorts of stuff. I go in and get Teflon rod and turn it down for .44 and 45. Loaded it with black powder since the bullet was anywhere from 12gr-25gr and I didn't want to even touch smokeless. A big hollow point and I started testing these in the garage into a bucket of wet newspaper..........I was getting a nice little entrance hole but if you peeled away the first layer of paper you would find a cavity you could hide a softball in. Wall thickness of the bullet is the enemy here. Too thin and they don't dump all the energy they should.

This is a project I hope to pick back up soon. I want to load up some more for my dad to use in the barn so he dosn't shoot up his tractors while going after groundhogs. I havn't messed with the speer bullets yet.

[Scrounger]

Get some Schedule 90 PVC.

[Molly]

... This is a project I hope to pick back up soon. I want to load up some more for my dad to use in the barn so he dosn't shoot up his tractors while going after groundhogs. I havn't messed with the speer bullets yet.

Sounds like fun! BTW, up above I mentioned a 000 buckshot load for 38 / 357. Put it over about 3/4 to a grain of Bullseye, and keep pressing it down inside the case until it has the power you want. Seated deeper, it scoots faster. Adjust until the buckshot just buries itself (doesn't go through) in the barn boards, so you don't have to worry about a vet bill 'cause you were dumb enough to perforate a pig, holsteen or saddle horse. Great for rats and such around the barn. I speak from experience. Never tried the Speer plastics, but they ought to work well too, at least until they lose velocity. The buckshot keeps velocity pretty well, but shoots low. I taped a popsickle stick to the rear sights, and whittled it down to compensate. Then I used a marker to blacken it, and cut a notch with my pocket knife. Cheaper than the Speers, which shoot low too, but the same thing should work fine with them. These are easily 'minute of rat' loads in a barn.

Molly

[theperfessor]

Years ago I bought a Charter .44 Bulldog. At the time there weren't too many .44 Special high performance self defense factory loads available. One of the loads I worked up was a double ball load made up with two swaged muzzle loader .433 balls separated by a greased felt wad and seated deep enough to put a mild roll crimp slightly over the midpoint of the top ball. The balls weigh about 123 grs each and so I used Bullseye with starting load data for a 246 gr lead bullet. Kept the point of impact close to point of aim, and balls would hit within 2-3 inches of each other at 15 yards. Figured it would increase shocking power while limiting penetration.

I would challenge my 1911 toting buddies to a ten shot speed shooting contest - they were concentrating so hard to make their reload that they never even noticed I'd only fired five off and never reloaded. What fun!

Stopped using load when I wore out Bullog (at about 1200 rounds) and I realized the ricochet potential of round balls off hard surfaces.

[Slowpoke]

One time the wife and I were visiting her friend that was recently divorced and her friend asked me if I would kill a old ewe for her and she brought out a old single shot 22 with a equally old box of 22 wildcat ammo, well I strolled down to the barn and found the ewe, it was a metal barn so I shot the ewe about a inch high between the eyes and that bullet bounced off and I heard it hit three times bouncing around in that barn and the fourth time I felt it hit me in the leg, the ewe was slowly munching her hay, so I went to my truck and retrieved my 45 and killed the ewe.

Another time when I was a teenager we were shooting a old 45 army 1911 that belonged to my friend, he was shooting and I was standing behind him a little to his right catching any brass that came close, he was shooting at a old oak timber and I seen what I thought was a piece of brass so I caught it but it was a bullet, I yelled because it stung a little and my friend laughed and said what's the matter that one a little hot I said just a little, check it out and handed him his bullet, a 230 fmj.

[Molly]

... I would challenge my 1911 toting buddies to a ten shot speed shooting contest - they were concentrating so hard to make their reload that they never even noticed I'd only fired five off and never reloaded. What fun!

Stopped using load when I wore out Bullog (at about 1200 rounds) and I realized the ricochet potential of round balls off hard surfaces.

Hi Perfesser! Nice ta meetcha. Believe it or not, that's the nickname my own ma gave me when I was a kid.

I like your load. It's the same basic idea as the 3-wadcutter 357 loads I've posted elsewhere. But wearing out the Bulldog at only 1200 rounds really surprises me! I've been using one for about 15 - 20 years, and it's still tight. Heaven only knows how many rounds I've put through it. I generally don't like hot loads, but I've put a lot of Elmer's favorites through it too. It'll put five consecutive rounds in a paper plate at fifty yards with Mr. Kieth's recommendation, and that's good enough for me. And I've got an original Target Bulldog that is slightly more accurate, but it doesn't get as much use.

Molly

[357maximum]

Slowpoke

It takes a bad bad man to catch bullets out of the air....... [smilie=f:

[Molly]

Slowpoke
It takes a bad bad man to catch bullets out of the air....... [smilie=f:

The tale is told of a WWII foxhole occupied by a couple of Brits and a couple of GI's during a period of rather intense social disagreement with the Germans. The Brits and GI's had passed the time with some good natured ribbing about which were the tougher soldiers, but eventually, the bombardments tapered off a good deal, so one of the Brits stuck his head up to see what was going on.

He had the misfortune to catch a rifle bullet smack in the mouth, but was fortunate that it was just skipping along at the extreme far end of it's trajectory, and only knocked out a couple of his front teeth. While he was spitting out the chips and blood, the other Brit began castigating him in the most scornful and scathing terms. "If you'd just caught it in your back teeth like we were taught, you wouldn't have gotten hurt!"

The GI's stared at them dumfounded, and asked what in the world they were talking about. The uninjured Brit explained (deadpan) that it was an official British technique for estimating the range to the enemy. Catching the bullet in the strong back molars enabled them to stop it without injury, while catching it in the front teeth - which were much more fragile - led to injuries like the one they had just witnessed.

From that point on, there was very little foxhole debate over who was the toughest team.

Supposed to be a true story too. I think I read it in Reader's Digest "Humor in Uniform", many years ago.

Still ROFLMAO!!

Molly

[MT Gianni]

One time the wife and I were visiting her friend that was recently divorced and her friend asked me if I would kill a old ewe for her and she brought out a old single shot 22 with a equally old box of 22 wildcat ammo, well I strolled down to the barn and found the ewe, it was a metal barn so I shot the ewe about a inch high between the eyes and that bullet bounced off and I heard it hit three times bouncing around in that barn and the fourth time I felt it hit me in the leg, the ewe was slowly munching her hay, so I went to my truck and retrieved my 45 and killed the ewe.

Another time when I was a teenager we were shooting a old 45 army 1911 that belonged to my friend, he was shooting and I was standing behind him a little to his right catching any brass that came close, he was shooting at a old oak timber and I seen what I thought was a piece of brass so I caught it but it was a bullet, I yelled because it stung a little and my friend laughed and said what's the matter that one a little hot I said just a little, check it out and handed him his bullet, a 230 fmj.

Domestic sheep are well known for having the slope on their heads to deflect anything but a straight shot. I have also seen some of that older "wildcat" ammo go straight down into a rabbit running sideways at 25 yards. Consistant it isnt. Glad it worked out. gianni

[HABCAN]

A .22 air rifle pellet buried in the neck of most any .22 centerfire case over 0.5grs. Bullseye with a standard primer is boocoo neat, accurate, and quiet medicine for urban 'yard intruders'. (You might want to 'zero' this load before 'engaging' with it, and elevate the muzzle and give it a little shake before gently lowering to POA.)

[Molly]

A .22 air rifle pellet buried in the neck of most any .22 centerfire case over 0.5grs. Bullseye with a standard primer...

Oh, yeah. I played with that combo years ago, and thought I'd found the ultimate indoor load ... until I used a new Samsonite suitcase for a backstop. Went right through! Some lessons are more educational than others. OUCH!

Molly

[HABCAN]

Molly, I never said "indoor", LOL!

[StrawHat]

A .22 air rifle pellet buried in the neck of most any .22 centerfire case over 0.5grs. Bullseye with a standard primer is boocoo neat, accurate, and quiet medicine for urban 'yard intruders'. (You might want to 'zero' this load before 'engaging' with it, and elevate the muzzle and give it a little shake before gently lowering to POA.)

I've used a 22 air rifle pellet in a .22 Hornet case with primer only. Works well, now I'll have to try some B'eye.

[HABCAN]

Smallest case I ever put BE in was a .222 Rem. Hornet? Dunno! Be careful!

[theperfessor]

Molly-

Let me explain what I mean about wearing out a .44 Charter Bulldog. I carried the piece as a personal defense weapon and shot double-action most of the time. By 1200 rounds the cylinder would not rotate far enough around during slow single-action firing to lock in place; I would have to finish turning the cylinder into place to get the locking bolt to seat. The rest of the gun was undamaged, no increase in end play/shake, no cylinder misalignment, etc. It could easily been fixed by replacing the hand(?), and in fact the guy I sold it to did exactly that. Yes, I told him of the problem when we did our swap and we were both happy with the end result. He wanted a bigbore revolver for a night stand gun, one that would be shot little and stored a lot.

I have no negative feelings about the gun or Charter Arms then or now. The tradeoff for light weight and portability is often reduced service life. There just isn't much metal in contact on the old Charters, and rapid wear during fast DA firing is a result.

Glad to hear that yours is giving you long, reliable service. I'd buy another one and be happy with it if I didn't already have a S&W 296, an airweight hammerless 5 shot L-frame Smith that I picked up at a gun show a couple years ago for $339. (Nobody wanted it cuz it wasn't a magnum, the morons.) What a deal!

[MT Gianni]

Perfessor, Having rebuilt a K-38 due to too much double action shooting [PPC], it isn't just the light weights. This gun shot mainly 2.7 gr bullseye until the rebuild. Gianni

[Molly]

Molly-
Let me explain what I mean about wearing out a .44 Charter Bulldog. I carried the piece as a personal defense weapon and shot double-action most of the time. By 1200 rounds the cylinder would not rotate far enough around during slow single-action firing to lock in place; I would have to finish turning the cylinder into place to get the locking bolt to seat. The rest of the gun was undamaged, no increase in end play/shake, no cylinder misalignment, etc. It could easily been fixed by replacing the hand ...Glad to hear that yours is giving you long, reliable service. I'd buy another one and be happy with it if I didn't already have a S&W 296, an airweight hammerless 5 shot L-frame Smith that I picked up at a gun show a couple years ago for $339. (Nobody wanted it cuz it wasn't a magnum, the morons.) What a deal!

Ahh! Now we're in good agreement. Heavy use naturally results in some wear, but I was envisioning a pile of junk with sprung frame, parts falling out and the like. As far as the .44 spl VS the 44 Mag ... I've got both, and like both, but I seldom need full mag power. But if I load the mag down, I've got a gun that's too heavy for the job. It's the spl that I pick up and carry at need. I haven't even shot the mag in about two or three years, and I have several ammo cans of once fired cases for it - and am growing uncomfortably short of cases for the spl. Great deal on the Smith BTW. If it gets dusty, let me know.

[floodgate]

Slowpoke:

I have had to put down ill or injured sheep from our wool flock a few times. What I have found to work best, fastest, and with the minimum anguish (for us and for the animal) is to lay down some alfalfa or grain, stand behind it, and when the head goes down to eat, put a .22 standard valocity slug straight into the soft hollow at the base of the skull just above the top vertebra, aimed through towards the animal's nose. The sheep will drop instantly, kick a few times and then lie still. It's not a chore I enjoy, but is clean, quick and fast. I assume the same would work for an injured deer, goat, etc., and would keep you out of immediate view and range of horns.

floodgate

[Molly]

I've used a 22 air rifle pellet in a .22 Hornet case with primer only. Works well, now I'll have to try some B'eye.

You're well on the way to one of the neatest little suburbs squirrel loads going. I used it in an Atlanta GA suburb for seveal years. It was about the only way to get any pecans from our trees. At ground-to-treetop distances, it was a great little outfit. I've taken squirrels out of a neighbor's back yard at high noon, with his windows open, and he never knew it until I told him. (He was a friend and a shooter too!)

A word of caution though: Shooting up works great (powder naturally drops to the back of the case for uniform ignition, and the pellet runs out of steam at about 50 ft high, due to low BC; No danger of hurting someone when it comes back down. But the story is a bit different if the rodent is on the ground: Powder is more or less random in the tiny case, and you will notice slight variations in the 'pop', accompanied by drop variations at longer (50+ ft) ranges.

I also found that smearing a little Crisco or vaselene across the top of the pellet improved accurcy a bit by preventing buildup of primer residue in the bore. Have fun!

[Bullshop Junior]

Shot loads in the 7.62X25.
I ran in to a hand full of them old Shot shells the army used in the 45 ACP, and that inspired my Research.
First I figured out how long to cut a 223 so that it would just eject, and fit the clip. The I formed it in the sizing die. I then filled it with shot, and powder and put a piece of paper plate on top. I went out and POP. That was it POP. Opened it up and out dumps my shot. Ok try again. This time I cut a case to length and then primed it and charged it. I then cut a piece out of a soda bottle to fit in the case, and keep the shot out of the powder. I then used The seating die set to the shell holder to form the case. (its true! I used it before to form regular length case from 223. It does set the shoulder to the right spot.) But. There's always a but in experimenting isn't there? Any but I forgot to take out the seating stem, and Crunch. Oh to bad. I will have to try again latter. i want to get this to work.
I forgot two say that I used a 270 die to size down the neck so it will fit all the way.
I will probably never succeed but if I do the squirrel will be sorry.
BIC/Daniel/BS Jr.

[Bullshop Junior]

I've used a 22 air rifle pellet in a .22 Hornet case with primer only. Works well, now I'll have to try some B'eye.
I did that. Worked realy well. Try a 22 short case of bulls eye. I also lubed the pellet and the loads with powder.
BIC/Daniel/BS Jr.

[Bullshop Junior]

We also shoot a soap bullet in the strait wall cases. Works good out of the 7.62 nagant. I broke mt firing pin on my CZ trying them so do not know how they whould work in that. Dad said he used to shoot mice with soap bullets in the 44 mag.
BIC/Daniel/BS Jr.

[theperfessor]

Molly -

Yeah, every gun fills its own niche, but I agree with you on the .44 spl/mag issue. I can shoot 50 to 100 full bore rounds out of my 6" M629 at an indoor range and thats it. I can shoot my skinny barrel 4" M21 w/240s @ 850 fps and shoot all day. A noticeable difference in fatigue factor from concussion, etc. (Yes, I wear ear good protection).

I can live with being a wimp...

The extra weight of the barrel in the mag is great for downloaded rounds for pin shooting, but you're not packing the rascal around all day either.

May the shooting gods smile on you.

[dnepr]

I have done various light loads . 22 cal pellet and primer in a hornet. works great across the basement into the pellet trap. acurrate but doesn't feed worth a damn in my Savage. # 3 buck shot in the neck of a 250 savage with just a primer ,works great in my 99 and the bonus is that it popint of impact works out to be about the top of the bottom post of the duplex recticle on the scope on that rifle. .310 cast roundballs from the lyman mold I have, haven't work that well in my .303 british. I have been using 2 gr of green dot I think I may to play around with the powder type and charge to get that to work. .444 marlin shot shells are great. I have lost the recipe but it was something like 12 to 15 grains of unique then a cereal box wad fill the rest of the case with shot, topped with another ceral box wad and sealed with paraffin wax . I have taken numerous grouse with these when out big game hunting they are only effective to 20 yards on the outside but they put a lot of meat in the pot.The one problem I have found with these is don't leave the ammo box on the dash of the truck heading out in the morning. the defrost will melt the wax and make a big mess. my next batch will have a gascheck crimped in place to seal up the case this will stand up to the rough handling much better. My next project is to fire up the lathe and machine some brass roundstock into .303 british cases that have a staight case interior. this will allow me to make up shotshells for my .303 . I don't know how effective a 30 cal shotgun is going to be but I think it is worth a try . if the shotshell thing doesnt work these will be great cases for reduce target loads.

[Molly]

... My next project is to fire up the lathe and machine some brass roundstock into .303 british cases that have a staight case interior. this will allow me to make up shotshells for my .303 . I don't know how effective a 30 cal shotgun is going to be but I think it is worth a try . if the shotshell thing doesnt work these will be great cases for reduce target loads.

Ummm. You know, the lengths are about the same, and the .303 Brit has a nominal base diameter of 0.460, while the .444 / .410 has a base dia of 0.470. But the Enfields have such sloppy chambers (yeah, I know it's to minimize feeding problems, but still ...) that I think you've got a good chance of it accepting a case based on the .444. All you'd need to do is run a .444 case through a sizing die and Vola'! If it chambers, you've saved a lot of lathe work. If it doesn't, all you'll have to do is spin it against a file until it does. Not to mention having a source of cases that won't be so subject to head separations and splits. Think about it ...

Molly

[dnepr]

Ummm. You know, the lengths are about the same, and the .303 Brit has a nominal base diameter of 0.460, while the .444 / .410 has a base dia of 0.470. But the Enfields have such sloppy chambers (yeah, I know it's to minimize feeding problems, but still ...) that I think you've got a good chance of it accepting a case based on the .444. All you'd need to do is run a .444 case through a sizing die and Vola'! If it chambers, you've saved a lot of lathe work. If it doesn't, all you'll have to do is spin it against a file until it does. Not to mention having a source of cases that won't be so subject to head separations and splits. Think about it ...

Molly

this is good to know as I have stockpiled a lot of .444 brass . but I am missing how this would give me a straight case interior.

[HABCAN]

Wads cut from plastic foam meat trays make neat overpowder wads for #7-1/2 or #9 shot loads. And an upside-down gas check crimped on top is a given for packin' in your pocket. For indoor use on mice, substitute a friction-tight cereal box over-shot wad, and use seed tapioca for 'shot'.

[Molly]

this is good to know as I have stockpiled a lot of .444 brass . but I am missing how this would give me a straight case interior.

Ummm. I think we're having some semantic problems here. We both say what we mean, but somehow the other guy hears something a bit different. I see two possibilities from what I've read:

One of them (and the one I thought was what you had in mind) was that you were trying to load a 303 Brit case with shot, and try to keep it from being spun off by the rifling. You did say something about a 30 caliber shotshell. I didn't think it was very probable, but hey, I've done some screwy things from time to time too. I AM a trifle concerned about this one though: As far as I can see, you're either going to just load the neck with shot, or the end of the chamber is going to be the most solid bore obstruction in history.

But since your comment about straight inside walls, the other objective now seems more probable, that you intend to bore out a 303 barrel to 410, and load brass 410 shells for it from 444 cases. (I can see some potential feeding problems, but hey, I've done some ... wait - I already said that. (BG)

Does either of these come close to what you're wantng to do?
Molly

[Molly]

Well, they say that confession is good for the soul, and I'm gonna come clean now. In an earlier post (#9, above), I made the comment that "You know, it shouldn't be so dang hard to break the habit of shooting myself ... (BG)"

Well, since then, I've remembered another time I managed to shoot myself - and I didn't even have the grace to use the right end of the gun!

I went to a gun show a while back, and a fellow had a table piled high with rusty-crusty, greasy and oily, clunky and junky looking 7.65x54R MN rifles, and had a sign that said "Your choice, $15.00".

Well, I've observed before that I'm cheeper than a cage full of canaries, and my brakes locked up right there, leaving me immobilized. So until the tow truck came, I had nothing else to do but sort through the junk pile. As anyone could have guessed, this pile of corrosive fired battlefield pickups had been rusting since WWII. For the most part, bores ranged from horrible to far worse than that. But lo! There was one with not only a bright and shiny bore, but little exterior rust to compliment the tank tread marks in the stock. (I THINK I'm kidding ...)

Anyhow, for $20 bucks or so, I got outta there with the rifle and a hatful of equally delightful ammo to take home. Cheapest high power rifle I ever saw. Anyhow, once home, I baptized it with some brushes and kerosene, making sure that most of the major parts were not only present and accounted for, but also reasonably clean and functional. I lived in the country, so all I had to do was step to the door of my shop, take aim at a fencepost across the valley, and let'er rip! CLICK! "What the devi - BLAM!" Hangfire! About every 4th round needed to be reminded of it's appointment with destiny, though the rest of them didn't seem TOO bad. At least most of them remembered how to go 'Boom!'

Well, the uncertainty that accompanied the target shooting sorta took the fun out of it for me, so I decided to just shoot off the rest of the ammo to get it out of the way of the grandkids. I loaded the gun, jacked one into the chamber, held the rifle more or less horizontal at the hip, and pulled the trigger.

HOLY BLEEP! It felt like someone that didn't like me very much had been given a baseball bat! I took a tremendous blow to the right arm, which was now frozen in shock and unable to move - or even feel very much. When I looked down to see where my arm had gone, all I saw was blood - and plenty of it. I let out a squall for my wife, and headed for the car, trying to tie a tourniquet at a dead run. My wife brought a handful of towels, and that was the last I saw of my right hand and arm until she got me to the emergency room. I bled like a stuck pig. The only real damage was a 1.5 inch long gash on my right thumb that went straight to the white bone, but you'd be amazed at how much you can drip on a 30 minute drive.

Well, the Doc was a decent sort - he gave me a shot of Novocain before he invited me to sit by the sink and clean my own injury with a scrub brush and some bactericidal soap. He didn't even turn it over to the police as a gunshot injury. "Farm Accident" was how it ended up.

After I'd been sewn back together, and the bleeding had been controlled by a compressive bandage, I went back home. The rifle was still laying in the gravel at the shop door. Finding that I had a certain level of curiosity, I walked over and picked it up - with the OTHER hand. At first, I saw nothing amiss, but a moment later, I noticed that the firing pin and spring were missing. Lifting the bolt was not difficult, and ejecting the spent case seemed normal too. But the primer was gone. Nada.

Well, as nearly as I can figure, the firing pin had crossed paths with a defective primer. Who knows, maybe it was defective metallurgy, maybe poor rolling or whatever. In any case, it released the gas pressure into the bolt, where it went to work on the firing pin and spring assembly, blowing them rearwards out of the rifle. (I am now most appreciative of the Mauser gas handling designs.) It was winter, and I'd had a heavy coat on, or I suspect the bolt innards would have been easier to find (by simply pulling them out of my arm), but a quick search turned them up on the far side of the shop. But if I hadn't been holding that thing at my waist, the coroner would have had a real job before anyone would say "Don't he look natchural?"

Now I know that some of you may doubt it, but I really am trying hard to quit shooting myself. I'm getting better at it too! Haven't done it in quite a while now, though I can't take all the credit. The dang long sleeves in the jackets they issue here have been a big help, but they DO make it hard to move my arms. Oh, and the bars on the doors and windows help some too. The Doc says he might even let me go home in a few more months. (VBG)

Regards,

[dnepr]

Molly
don't feel bad I can have a hard time getting my point across. I know what I mean but the rest of the world looks at me as if I am talking in swahili . What I am hoping to machine up is a cartridge case that has the exterior shape of a .303 british case and at the same time have a cylindrical interior of .311 from top to bottom . This cartridge would have a wall thickness if 0.0745 at the base.
Another way to look at it is an exterior like the .303 and an interior like a lengthened 30 carbine
I hope this makes things clear. and again thanks for the tip about the .444 brass and .303

[Ricochet]

Man alive, Molly, that's scary!

Now I'm wondering if anyone else has heard of a Mosin bolt assembly coming apart with a pierced primer? I know some who've tried to blow them up with overloads have found them to be quite strong, but that's a different situation when a primer pierces and the bolt gets full of gas. Perhaps that Mosin was defective from its hard use and corrosion?

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

Molly, do folks that know you wear flack vests and tin pots when you shoot around them!!!!!![smilie=1:
Nick

[Molly]

... Another way to look at it is an exterior like the .303 and an interior like a lengthened 30 carbine. I hope this makes things clear. and again thanks for the tip about the .444 brass and .303

Ah, now I see, as the blind carpenter said to his deaf son, as he picked up his hammer and saw. Why doancha just buy one of those subcaliber inserts that step down the .303 to the .32 S&W Long? It'd be a whole lot less trouble, and should give you pretty much the same thing.

You're welcome re the .444 brass. Good luck.
Molly

[Molly]

> Man alive, Molly, that's scary! Now I'm wondering if anyone else has heard of a Mosin bolt assembly coming apart with a pierced primer? I know some who've tried to blow them up with overloads have found them to be quite strong, but that's a different situation when a primer pierces and the bolt gets full of gas. Perhaps that Mosin was defective from its hard use and corrosion?

Darn right that's scary! I can only figure that whatever reason the Lord had for putting me on this earth hadn't been accomplished yet. It blew on the very first shot after I'd decided to quit aiming and just pop them off to get rid of them.

Defective? I don't know for sure EXACTLY what went wrong. No, I haven't quit using the MN, but nowdays, my preflight checkups include the firing pin protrusion and sharpness. Kinda hard to judge these factors on the blow out, since it had caroomed around my shop for a while and sorta ground down here and there. But frankly, it was so much fun that I decided I didn't need any more fun (like that) for a while, and logic says that this MIGHT have played a role in my mishap. It's unlikely to happen again, but I think of the extra trouble as a REAL cheap insurance policy.

Molly

[Molly]

Molly, do folks that know you wear flack vests and tin pots when you shoot around them!!!!!![smilie=1:
Nick

:-D No, but back in the days before new brass was so plentiful for some of these oddball calibers, I used to come up with some pretty - innovative - ways to get them shooting. I've posted elesewhere how I would fireform 30-06 cases to 577/450 for a Martini. And I DID have one buddy who liked to come along to the range with me, just to see what I'd come up with THIS time. Come to think of it though, he DID seem abnormaly demure whenever I invited him to take a shot ...

:bigsmyl2:

[dnepr]

Ah, now I see, as the blind carpenter said to his deaf son, as he picked up his hammer and saw. Why doancha just buy one of those subcaliber inserts that step down the .303 to the .32 S&W Long? It'd be a whole lot less trouble, and should give you pretty much the same thing.

You're welcome re the .444 brass. Good luck.
Molly

I have a subcaliber insert that shoots .32acp in .303 british. I want to build these mostly to spend time in front of the lathe. I find lathe work just as relaxing and enjoyable as reloading or casting boolits. That is until I cut some critical dimension a couple thou undersized on a piece I have about 5 hours into then the relaxation aspect goes out the window right quickly:roll:

[Molly]

I find lathe work just as relaxing and enjoyable as reloading or casting boolits. That is until I cut some critical dimension a couple thou undersized on a piece I have about 5 hours into then the relaxation aspect goes out the window right quickly

Believe me, I DO understand. Have fun.
Molly

[lathesmith]

Bullets bouncing off of wood? How can this be? To those unfamiliar, just take a piece of seasoned, smooth oak and try to drive a nail in it. The older this stuff gets, the tougher it gets. If you find a piece that is properly "aged", driving a #8 nail into it is virtually impossible, it just bends and crumples. Yes, I can easily see how a 25 acp or similar slug would just pinball off of this stuff, and I would not want to be in the way.
Dnepr, I really caught the drift of the lathe work. Very enjoyable, until a several-hours-invested piece comes up a thou or two small. Ha! Been there, done that! I see I am not the only one who "enjoys" this aspect of the obsession, er, hobby, I mean!
lathesmith

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

Yep it's really relaxing spending an hour or so making something we can buy for $5, then have it come out too small, because "somebody"[smilie=1: did not measure correctly, then we do the whole thing over!!!:roll:
No it's not an obsession I tell you!!!!! Can't be, I have no obsessions!!!:mrgreen:

[dnepr]

It can't be an obsession I only have 2 lathes.[smilie=1:

This also reminds me of one more project I have on the go . Not really for light loads but sort of related. I have a .577 snider. I want to get it shooting but dies are about $100 , I would need a bigger press, lee classic cast is about $100 and brass runs at least $1 apiece usually more . not in the budget right now. but I really want to hear that old girl roar . so after seeing picture of the first cartridges used in the snider I am doing something similar. I have machined up cartridge bases from steel round stock I had kicking around. These bases are .800 long, have a rim diameter of .750, a base diameter of .650 and taper down to .630. The inside bore of these is .600 . They are drilled for a 209 shotshell primer.
The plan is to wrap 1 wrap of 3 oz copper foil around a .590 mandrel and a wood or plastic base plug and insert into the base . Then I will wrap the whole casing, from the rim up, in 2 wraps of 16 pound paper . THen will coat it with shelac or urathane or something along that line. this should produce a case that will work with the dimensions of my chamber and be able to handle a a .590 bullet that will work with my bore. This will be sort of half way between an original snider cartrige and a paper shotshell hull.

Feel free to question my sanity at this point.:)

[Molly]

This also reminds me of one more project I have on the go . Not really for light loads but sort of related. I have a .577 snider. ... but I really want to hear that old girl roar . ... I have machined up cartridge bases ... They are drilled for a 209 shotshell primer.
Feel free to question my sanity at this point.:)

Well, not your sanity, but perhaps your methodology. Unless you are trying to duplicate the original foil cases for the sake of authenticity, there is an easier way:

Turn the bases and rims, but instead of boring for a 209 primer, just bore for a .348 Win case (and rim) using a mild push fit. (note: Boring the inside front for ~ 60 degree taper goes a long way to help the fireforming.) Anneal the 348 cases, press into position, and fireform. Bingo! New, functional cases that will work like a charm, and be far less subject to handling / water problems. And if / when you split a neck, just bore out the .348 case and press in another one.

HTH
Molly

[HABCAN]

Today I have invented the 'Scottish' load for the 7x57.

My so-far accuracy boolit load for the RCBS cruise missile is 16.5grs. #748. Wondering what might be the result of using a case filler, I went in search of COW. No COW. But, we gots oatmeal/rolled oats. First, I settled the 748 in the bottom of the case, then dribble-filled to the shoulder/neck junction with oatmeal, and seated the boolit.

Upon firing, a hole in the 5 yd. target was right where it was expected, surrounded by three more tiny ones.

Returning to the loading bench, I discovered that 60 or 70 % of the oatmeal was still in the case! So I loaded another the same way, reusing that oatmeal which I'd shaken out after shot #1 and 'made up' the lost oatmeal: about 1/8 tsp. I shot that one. Same target hole as first shot. This time there was even more oatmeal left in the case. Keep this up and after a few shots maybe I'll be producing extra oatmeal?

Now gents, that's cheap!

[Molly]

Today I have invented the 'Scottish' load for the 7x57.
... This time there was even more oatmeal left in the case. Keep this up and after a few shots maybe I'll be producing extra oatmeal? Now gents, that's cheap!

Ummm, yeah, if the progression continues, but I'd be leery about lead contamiation in my breakfast ... unless you plan to give it to your enemies. Hmm. Maybe ... Just maybe, the effect is a property of not the oatmeal, but of the rifle! Could you roll up a couple of silver - or better yet, gold coins so's you can drop them down the neck? If it's the rifle, you should get several coins for each shot. Now, THAT's cheap! (VBG)

Molly

[dnepr]

Molly
Thanks for the info. I am going to be on the lookout at the gunshows for some .348 brass.

[lathesmith]

Well Habcan, I have heard of spinning straw into gold. You may be onto something big here! Have you recovered your slugs and looked at them? Maybe they turned to gold! Now THAT would be cheap shootin'!
lathesmith

[Ricochet]

Pity gold's so expensive. It'd make great boolits. A bit tricky to cast, though.