First attempt at making 666-1 frustration

[Yodogsandman]

My first attempt at making 666-1 lube today was frustrating! I'm not sure if what I got is right.

Melted the paraffin wax in a soup can placed in a pan of boiling water on the hot plate .

Melted the beeswax in a whole tomato can in the same set up right after the paraffin was melted.

Melted the vaseline in a 1 cup pyrex measuring cup with my hairdryer.

Put 6 oz (3/4 cup) each of paraffin, beeswax and vaseline together in a peach can and heated them on the hot plate while stirring. Once they seemed blended well and heated enough, I stirred in 1 oz (1/3 cup) of finely grated ivory soap. The soap did not melt and did not foam up. The little soap bits just went around and around, floating on top. Let's try this again...

Placed the can back on the hot plate and heated up the mixture some more. Again, while stirring the soap bits, they just floated around on top and wouldn't mix in. OK, so I took the hair dryer to the top of the mix and the soap started to foam. I stirred and stirred but, the foam wouldn't combine with the other ingredients. I took the mix off from the hot plate and continued stirring. Some of the soap seemed to mix in so, I put it back on the hot plate and heated the top again with the hair dryer while I stirred. It foamed up again and I kept stirring. Again, I took it off the heat and kept stirring. It just wouldn't mix together!

Went in the house to warm up and looked for solutions here on the forum. No luck!!

I went back out and about half the mixture was solidifying on the sides of the can so, I mixed it up. I stirred and stirred and got everything to somewhat go together. It looked like tan colored mashed potatoes. It's little lumpy, still.

So, any advise or suggestions? Did I do it right? Does it look right?

[btroj]

Ok, let me tell you how I do it.

Put it the vaseline and paraffin in a pan. Get it melted. Add the soap. It will foam as the heat rises. Keep stirring. It will take a bit to get hot enough to get the foaming en it takes more heat to get the foaming to go away. Stir and stir.

It will smoke a bit after a while. Keep stirring and heating. As the soap melts in it will get a bit thicker. You want to heat and stir just to the point where it is totally liquid. This is around 450 degrees, don't splash or it will burn. I have the scar to prove it.

Remove from the heat and stir. It will start to gel a bit, this is when I add the beeswax as a solid. The residual heat will melt the beeswax and this also keeps the cooling going. Keep stirring until it is a homogenous mix. Once it is all mixed I pour into a foil pan and let it cool.

Yours didn't work because you didn't ahve enough heat to melt the soap. The soap isn't going to dissolve, it must melt.

[RobS]

Heat the Paraffin to melting add in Vaseline and then when a slight smoke starts add in the Ivory soap. I used a hotplate on high as it takes quite a bit of heat to melt in the Ivory soap.

Last step would be to add the beeswax at medium/low heat so as to not scorch it.

I make a similar lube and here are my instructions:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?26524-Just-the-facts-Lube-recipes&p=3039487&viewfull=1#post3039487

[35 shooter]

Could this batch be re-heated slowly and brought up to temp. to get it mixed in and save it?

[btroj]

You can try it. Beeswax doesn't usually like that much heat but what do you have to lose? Even a long, gradual hear may get it melted in.

I say go for it. Even if it chars a bit and turns dark brown it could still work fine as a lube.

[Yodogsandman]

I guess I can try to fix it by heating it as much as it'll take. So, what's it supposed to look like? Anyone have any photos?

It seems so simple the way you guys made it!

[btroj]

Mine looks like yours but with no lumps. Should be pretty much beeswax colored. Knead a hunk in your hands and it is easy to finger lube bullets.

[Yodogsandman]

Well, it smoked a bit and scorched but, I got it mixed in together. I now have black coffee colored lube. Tomorrow we'll see how it looks...

[btroj]

That is the beeswax, it doesn't handle the temps required very well. The paraffin and vaselne can handle the heat but not beeswax, that is why it is added after the stuff is off the heat.

Let us know how it works, might not have hurt it a bit.

[Eutectic]

Brad and Rob have given good advice. The Ivory MUST be heated with the paraffin and Vaseline first as high heat (460°) is required to get the Ivory to melt and incorporate into the wax and oils.... Beeswax last at no hotter than 250° max.

I suggest you make another small batch as instructed above. Then you will have answered your questions on appearance and texture in the process. It will also let you test your dark batch for accuracy against the new smaller batch.

Eutectic

[timberhawk]

Brad and Rob have given good advice. The Ivory MUST be heated with the paraffin and Vaseline first as high heat (460°) is required to get the Ivory to melt and incorporate into the wax and oils.... Beeswax last at no hotter than 250° max.

I suggest you make another small batch as instructed above. Then you will have answered your questions on appearance and texture in the process. It will also let you test your dark batch for accuracy against the new smaller batch.

Eutectic

Eutectic,
You have been working with a 666+1+1. Was that 1% Carnuba and 1% Jojoba Oil.
When do these oils get added to the mix?

[geargnasher]

Congratulations, you made "burnt cat turd" lube! :kidding:

That's the problem with beeswax, 358F and it starts to fry and smell sour, and the soap won't melt until 460F.


Most el cheapo hot plates are woefully inadequate for making any sort of soap-fortified bullet lube. Most of them are lawyer-proofed to shut off around 400F, or just below the poof point of most cooking oils/fats/greases. I have to use a propane burner to make soap lubes.

Mike (357 Maximum) added the necessary instructions to his "Satan Lube" recipe in the "just the facts" lube sticky, Btroj and Eutectic mentioned essentially the same point: If you combine paraffin, Vaseline, and soap in a lube, you should do just those three together and make certain you get the soap fully melted (the stuff will smoke badly right at the soap's melt point) because if you don't, the soap will precipitate out of solution. Paraffin wax and Ivory soap don't like to mix together for some reason until the soap's matrix is broken down by heat and then reformed as the mixture cools below the soap's "gel point". But it's a catch-22, because when you try to melt in the beeswax after your soap/paraffin/vaseline mixture has gelled, the stuff will be lumpy and the "grease" will never fully incorporate into the beeswax. A few gentle re-meltings/stirrings will help, but the soap can tend to come out and make a foamy head on the mix if you get it much past 250F.

Gear

[Eutectic]

Eutectic,
You have been working with a 666+1+1. Was that 1% Carnuba and 1% Jojoba Oil.
When do these oils get added to the mix?

No..... It was 1% Castor Oil and 1% Jojoba Oil. I added Castor Oil in with the Paraffin and Vaseline to incorporate along in high heat with the Ivory. I added the 1% Jojoba when I added Beeswax during cool down. Gear has a good point about a re-melt smoothing things out. I put finished 666-1 into a double boiler for a half hour stirring occasionally. This will smooth it out pretty nice.

Eutectic

[timberhawk]

No..... It was 1% Castor Oil and 1% Jojoba Oil. I added Castor Oil in with the Paraffin and Vaseline to incorporate along in high heat with the Ivory. I added the 1% Jojoba when I added Beeswax during cool down. Gear has a good point about a re-melt smoothing things out. I put finished 666-1 into a double boiler for a half hour stirring occasionally. This will smooth it out pretty nice.

Eutectic


I've got some stainless steel pans for making lube, but I'll have to buy my own double boiler.
My wife is pretty tolerant of my hobby and puts up with a lot of stuff (no flaming goo at three AM yet), but she'd draw the line on using hers.

[Yodogsandman]

I've determined that I should just start over! Cleaned up (almost) everything and melted and measured out the paraffin and Vaseline. Also measured out the finely grated ivory soap. I'll play with this another day, have to clean up after the latest snow storm, now.

Wrapped up the "cat turd lube" in foil and filed it away in the "someday" file. Don't want the dog to roll around in it when I'm not looking!

This is all great information! Thanks to all of you for sharing your sage advise! I like the idea that it's all in one place to reference, now. I'll report back when I finish up this new batch with photos.

[btroj]

Never judge a lube the day it is made. Mine always seem to change a bit over night and settle in.

[Yodogsandman]

I've got some stainless steel pans for making lube, but I'll have to buy my own double boiler.
My wife is pretty tolerant of my hobby and puts up with a lot of stuff (no flaming goo at three AM yet), but she'd draw the line on using hers.

I hit the yard sales hard last summer and found all kinds of stuff for making lube. Glass Pyrex pans, Metal cookie and cake pans, Pyrex measuring cups, spoons and ladles, a 4 qt pan, delrin cutting boards that I cut up to make a hollow tube jig and a hot plate. All together less than $15. A double boiler's just an old peach can in a pan of boiling water! I also found 2 convection toaster ovens for $11. Gave one oven to my wife ... she owes me the "use" of kitchen utensils now! Just can't let her catch me!

[geargnasher]

Never judge a lube the day it is made. Mine always seem to change a bit over night and settle in.

Speaking of "sage advice", Yodog, there's more of it right there. With heavily-soaped lubes, the test is 24 hours and then about 2-6 months later, see if it turned to slime or not.

There's a lot more behind some of these formulas than many suspect, a lube has to pass a lot of thoughtful tests besides the shooting before the more scrupulous lube cooks turn it loose. Like Ben, he's been keeping his new liquid lube a quiet secret for years until just recently, when he felt it was tested well enough to share. Same with several of the Extreme concoctions, the tests just aren't completed yet, and some take time, like copper strip evaluations.

Gear

[Yodogsandman]

It's been 24 hours now and I can tell that I'd need to plug in the heater. It's 6*F outside. Thr lube I made last night is a little sticky and waxy but has body and responds to the warmth of my fingers. I like it but, want to make it the right way.

[btroj]

You might just be surprised. I find that it doesn't need much heat of the pressure is high enough. Minimal heat at most, just get it to flow.

[geargnasher]

Pressure makes a lot of difference, 666-1 is thixotropic to a large degree, IOW it changes from very firm to easy flow via pressure alone even while remaining cold. The soap does interesting things to the structure of various waxes, changing their flow properties in both heat and cold, for the better.

Gear

[Yodogsandman]

I don't want to dump the contents of my lubrisizer just yet. Just today, I received some new solutions from Bullshop that I'd like to try out. My thoughts are to hand lube some boolits (in the warm house) and size them in the new sizer die without any pressure. That would allow me to try the lube without committing to it.

[btroj]

Knead it a little and it will go into grooves quite well even in 60 degree weather. It is more the shear forces than it is temp. Work it for even 15 seconds in your fingers, a marble size ball, and it will amaze you.

[Yodogsandman]

[smilie=w:SUCCESS!!! SUCCESS!!! SUCCESS!!! SUCCESS!!! SUCCESS!!!:drinks:

I deviated just a little. Because of the 15*F afternoon temperature, I pre-melted the beeswax prior to adding to the paraffin/Vaseline/ivory soap mixture. I was afraid that the mixture would stiffen up before the beeswax completely melted.

The left photo is the lube failure from the other night, the right side is the batch made today with a chunk of beeswax placed on the top, left edge for comparison.

[bhn22]

One little thing I've picked up from my very limited lube making adventures. Stainless steel bowls from the Goodwill seem to make excellent pans for melting and mixing lube. If you feel the need to double-boil, you can stack a larger bowl in a slightly smaller bowl with water in it, although direct heat seems to be a major requirement. Cleanup is easy, and if you damage the bowl, toss it and only lose a buck or so. Do not use aluminum bowls though.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I haven't made 666+1 yet, but the cooking Paraffin, Vaseline and Ivory soap are similar to the SL68 that I've made (a few batches).
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?249135-Homemade-Lube-Geargnasher-s-SL68-recipe
Anyway, yes I think the pre-melted beeswax is the way to add it to the blended "ungeled" mix (Paraffin, Vaseline and Ivory soap) when it's still near that Hot 450º+ temp...Then crash cool it right after you can see the entire mix has blended well.

Also, I assume 666+1 will be as difficult to remove from a lubesizer as SL68 would be. That is just a word to the wise, don't put it in your lubesizer, until you are 100% sure you want it in there ;)
And Yes, I removed the first batch of SL68 from a lubesizer.
Jon

[35 shooter]

Looks like you nailed it this time....good job! Hope it makes a good lube for you!:smile:

[btroj]

That is the stuff! Good job.

Did I mention it smokes and gets really hot before the soap all melts?

[Yodogsandman]

Thanks for the encouragement and the advise guys! The old, yard sale hot plate had it in her to heat it up enough in the cold, I guess I got lucky there! Yessirry mistah it smoked! I stopped stirring just long enough to open up the barn door. The smoke hung there in the air from about waist high up to the ceiling!

As far as the lubrisizer goes, I'll have to consider adding another one to the bench. For now, I can just finger lube the boolits and run them into the sizer without changing out anything yet.

[geargnasher]

First off, Yodog, ya done good, congratulations!


I haven't made 666+1 yet, but the cooking Paraffin, Vaseline and Ivory soap are similar to the SL68 that I've made (a few batches).
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?249135-Homemade-Lube-Geargnasher-s-SL68-recipe
Anyway, yes I think the pre-melted beeswax is the way to add it to the blended "ungeled" mix (Paraffin, Vaseline and Ivory soap) when it's still near that Hot 450º+ temp...Then crash cool it right after you can see the entire mix has blended well.

Also, I assume 666+1 will be as difficult to remove from a lubesizer as SL68 would be. That is just a word to the wise, don't put it in your lubesizer, until you are 100% sure you want it in there ;)
And Yes, I removed the first batch of SL68 from a lubesizer.
Jon

Now see what's happening to you? You been at this long enough that you're starting to make up very apt and descriptive lube making terms like "un-gelled" and "crash cool it". Your synopsis of getting beeswax into a high soap lube without completely toasting it is spot on, and those are terms we can DIG. People love to poke fun at some of us for inventing this sort of jargon, but how else can one describe these unique things and get the point across?

Gear

[Eutectic]

You guys are braver than me with this crash cool baloney!:kidding:

And I usually have a snow drift close for a good crash!!

Beeswax too soon (heat wise) into a soap type lube at lower soap %'s ....will darken your batch and add nothing that I see to incorporation of the mix. But a light brown pancake tastes good and so does one a little darker.... Just watch those really DARK brown/black ones.!!

Kinda like crossing a candle flame with your finger when we were kids... Pretty soon we had a contest who could do it the slowest.... "OWW!" You get the point!

Melting the Beeswax separate is a good idea for a one batch thing. Not for me however as EVERYTHING I MAKE IS REPEATABLE! So a small % of Beeswax stays in the container you melt it in by cohesion.

Last year my wife bought me a very accurate digital scale for my birthday! Great gift. It has a 2600 gram capacity. I set it for grains! More appropriate for reloading stuff.:-P That's 40,000 grains capacity!!! It's very accurate too as I've compared it to my powder scale even at small amounts. (25 grs.) Bottom-line.... for me accurate repeatable formulas are easy.

Back to Beeswax added to 666-1 lubes. (5% Ivory or so) I weigh out the crumbs of my Beeswax for this use. The small pieces melt fast and easy into a paraffin/Vaseline/Ivory gel below Beeswax's scorch point. A double boiler treatment as mentioned some time later will help a lot more than a crash cool in my experience for how nice the incorporation is.

I had a bunch of slightly modified 666-1 samples I had cooked up. I pretty well know how I like the formula now after a lot of testing even to -15° below zero.
So I weighed ALL those samples except the one I liked the best. I double boiled the whole works into a bunch of 33.5% Paraffin, 32.2% Beeswax, 27.6% Vaseline, 0.6% Jojoba Oil, 1.1% Castor Oil, and 5% dry Ivory. Nigh on perfect for my use....

Gad I love that scale!!!:guntootsmiley:

Eutectic

[btroj]

I too weigh everything. My beeswax goes in as solid lumps. May take a minute or so to melt but that is also removing heat from the system and I haven't had issues with scorching.

Just shows there is far more than one way to skin a cat.

[Yodogsandman]

It's been 24 hours and no discernible difference in the lube. No slime at all.

:groner: Never even thought to make the beeswax chunks into smaller pieces to melt and lower the temperature faster. I'll be looking for my own cheese grater at next summers yard sales, now too. The larger hole size seems to work pretty well on the beeswax. I used the smaller holes to grate the ivory soap.

[btroj]

I don't make mine into little piece, mine is just the sizes I need to get the right weight. Some chunks may be several ounces.

I'm too darn lazy to grate or pulverize beeswax. Pete is a bit different, he even shoots in 20 below temps.

[geargnasher]

Crash-cooling is critical if you're doing a full third Ivory by weight like Jon is. You just won't get the smooth, homogenized semi-translucent and super-feathery result if the beeswax isn't dumped in there with the MOLTEN soap. If it's opaque, the beeswax didn't get incorporated completely and you have what amounts to a sodium grease and wax mixture rather than a sodium wax grease. Does it matter that much to the shooting? Not that I can tell most of the time but sometimes, yes. But then again I cull my short-range pistol bullets to the same standards as long-range rifle bullets too, so maybe it's more obsession than anything.

Gear

[Eutectic]

Pete is a bit different, he even shoots in 20 below temps.

Actually colder than that Brad... I actually WISH now for -40° below one morning just to see if 666-1 has any cold 'quit' in it!

But Beeswax..... I try to eliminate it and can't seem to be able to. I recently 'cooked' a hi-soap concoction that looked and felt like a dream! Pale as a ghost in color too. It was 20% 180° Microwax, 20% Paraffin, 25% Vaseline, 3% Castor Oil, (helps with 'dryness') and 32% dry Ivory..... Ahhh! If only looks and feel could kill! Ahhh! To be able to put ALL the waxes and oils together and go after Ivory at 460°!! Seems I just can't 'pick' my lube winners ahead of time like tests I saw on another forum! A half minute of angle mule and load grouped 5" on my 85 yard target!!!!! This was a 8° morning.... Some of the commercial lubes can even pass that warm a winter morning!!

Ian.... that synthesized Beeswax could solve a lot if not most of our problems.....[smilie=b:

Eutectic

[geargnasher]

You're tellin' me, Pete. Beeswax does amazing things for us. Have you investigated the cetyl ester stuff? That was discussed a while back when Jeff B. jointed the extreme lube discussion briefly. There are various degrees of "synthetic" beeswax, ranging from chemically similar replacements to mixtures of various petroleum and natural waxes and oils that approximate the melt point and flex.

Gear

[btroj]

I have some cetylesters but haven't given them a go yet.

[geargnasher]

I honestly haven't seen the need. Pete, on the other hand, is a very special snowflake. :bigsmyl2:

Gear

[btroj]

Snowflake? He isn't that delicate, he is more of an ice crystal.

I need to try some cetyl ester in 666-1 and see what it changes. I wonder how it will alter both melt point and the softening under a work load. If it helps a lube go liquid faster under pressure it might be a good thing and long as it doesn't lower melt point too much.

[Eutectic]

Pete, on the other hand, is a very special snowflake. :bigsmyl2:

Gear

Ian, as you live down among the Banana Plantations you are probably not aware that all snow is not flakes.... The Eskimo language has 75 separate words for different types of snow in fact!

I worked one day in Wyoming years ago. It was -37° below zero and the wind was at least that number for speed. We don't use the 'sissified chill factor' temps much. If we did it was off the bottom of the chart! If that wasn't enough it was snowing..... sideways! It was what I call below zero Rocky Mountain snow..... it's like sand. If you ever want to know the meaning of "True Grit" (beyond John Wayne) try getting 'sandblasted' with this on an exposed check on a day like above!



Snowflake? He isn't that delicate, he is more of an ice crystal.


You are getting closer Brad. I'll take 'ice crystal' as a compliment. But ice crystals are short lived and I have lived through millions of them!

Please do test cetyl ester Brad! (To stop 'drift' for a moment) I think most of us would appreciate the results!

It is quite possible as you two look for a new descriptive title for my love of the cold that is has been there all the time!

See below:

eutectic (juːˈtɛktɪk)adj 1. (Chemistry) (of a mixture of substances, esp an alloy) having the lowest freezing point of all possible mixtures of the substances


Yours truly, Eutectic

[btroj]

Camphor and menthol. Both solids at room temp but mixed together they form a liquid. Classic Eutectic mixture.

PM me with some ideas for cetyl Ester tests you think would help. I'm tempted to try something similar to your 666-1 mod.

[Yodogsandman]

So, for shooting 666-1, any ideas for pretreating the bore (if I felt the need). I'm thinking about using a patch moistened with mineral oil.

[geargnasher]

Just use the lube itself, smeared thin on a patch, followed by one dry patch from the breech end.

Gear

[Eutectic]

So, for shooting 666-1, any ideas for pretreating the bore (if I felt the need). I'm thinking about using a patch moistened with mineral oil.

Yodog.....

This 'bore treating', load modification, etc. for the first shot is a temporary one time fix that becomes a moving target as well as the mercury drops... What happens if you shoot once and miss and then shoot again an hour later at another target. Bore treatment equipment in the field would be a major pain!

The best thing is to know the gun and load (including lube) you are using. 1st choice is having a combo that doesn't 'cold start'.... Second and last choice for me is to know where the 'cold start' shot goes and compensate for it.

Having a combo that doesn't 'cold start' at 40° doesn't necessarily mean it won't at colder temps.... 15° doesn't prove much either as probably 80%+ of proven lubes will pass.

The reason 'I brag up' 666-1 is that it is the only lube at this point and time that will actually group a series of 'cold start' rounds (or first shots) into a group equal to a normally fired group size! Five test mules with multiple load combos in some down to -15° below have convinced me. One of the five will print the first 'cold start' 1 1/2" high (gun related, probably bedding) but it does it EVERY TIME. It will shoot a group size the same as warmer temps in other words ALL 1 1/2" high! That's good enough for me and totally capable to pop a Cottontail in the noggin if big game isn't showing and rabbit stew sounds good.

One BIG advantage of a -15° below zero saturation test pass I have found is that warmer (but still cold) temps can also be relied on. It doesn't work the other way around however.
A pass at 15° doesn't mean a pass at -15° below! It doesn't even mean a pass at 14°! Matter of fact you can almost count on failure..... But 666-1 can do it! These comments are from probably 15 or 20 different lubes tested either homemade or store bought.

Eutectic