Why the .327 Fed Mag?

[omgb]

Why on earth does this cartridge exist? The 32-20 is its equal in all areas save one that I can tell. Handguns for the 32-20 are not made to shoot beyond about 800 fps with 115 gr bullets. In good rifles however, the 32-20 will out zip the .327 Fed most of the time so why bother with it?

[dilly]

What 327 FM rifle are you using for comparison? Or are you comparing 327 FM handguns to 32-20 rifles?

Honestly I have neither but the straight wall is a pretty big draw to me. Eliminates some unpleasant brass prep. More people care about the caliber versatility though.

[paracordkydexcummins]

I like the 327 it works in revolvers and rifles. For me if I buy a gun I want it to be able to work in a handgun and rifle. And the straight wall has less case prep.

[dragon813gt]

Have you shot one? If you haven't, do so and get back to me. It's a fun little round to shoot. The 32/20 doesn't come close to touching it in velocity.

On paper it's equal to a 125 grain 357 round. In reality it creates a smaller hole so isn't equal. It is more manageable in regards to recoil. The Single 7 is the perfect frame size for it so it's a lot lighter compared to the revolvers for the larger rounds.

I could ask why a lot of cartridges exist. 40 S&W is at the top of the list because I consider it a worthless cartridge. But if people want to shoot it have at it. Go shoot the 327. I want a lever chambered for it in the worse way :)

[paracordkydexcummins]

In the archives there is this I want to build one so bad to
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?167634-Marlin-1894CB-32-H-amp-R-to-327-finally-did-it

[Gus Youmans]

There is a very nice S&W 32-20 revolver that has been sitting in the the local gunshop for several months. I thought about purchasing the gun because I like .32s but began to ask myself what a 32-20 can do that my .327s cannot and also began to think about the costs and aggravation involved in setting up to reload another cartridge. The gun was still in the case when I went by today.

The standard answer to your questions is that the cartridge was originally brought out as a self-defense cartridge because guns that would only accept five 38/357 cartridges could be chambered for six .327 Federal cartridges. The high pressures to which the cartridges were loaded enabled it to nearly match the muzzle energy of the .357, and beat the 38 Special and 9mm cartridges with recoil about equal to .38 Special +P loads. I bought my first .327, a Ruger SP101, because my youngest daughter is recoil sensitive and I wanted something we could load with mouse fart loads for training but switch to more powerful loads for more serious purposes. Since then I have added a GP100 and Single Seven in .327 Federal, and another SP101 in .32 H&R.

The cartridge continues to exist because those of us who own guns chambered in .327 Federal keep buying more guns in that caliber because of the versatility of the guns. They will shoot the .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum just as accurately as they will the .327, making them ideal for plinking and training and very cheap to feed. A pound of lead will cast about seventy 98 grain bullets and a pound of Bullseye or 231 will load about 3000 rounds of ammo, making the primer the most expensive part of reloading, if you disregard the cost of the cases. On the top end, there are loads that have the potential to cleanly kill our southern whitetails under optimum conditions but there are a lot of other pistol cartridges that would do so under much more adverse conditions.

The first four guns I bought over forty years ago were the only guns I ever needed. Everything I have purchased since then has been something I wanted and the various .32s fall into the latter category.

Gus Youmans

[dragon813gt]

The first four guns I bought over forty years ago were the only guns I ever needed. Everything I have purchased since then has been something I wanted and the various .32s fall into the latter category.

Gus Youmans

A truthful statement if there ever was one. I could have stopped at my first purchases, a 12ga O/U, for hunting. And first pistol for self defense. I don't need any of the others but I sure want them :beer:

[paracordkydexcummins]

A truthful statement if there ever was one. I could have stopped at my first purchases, a 12ga O/U, for hunting. And first pistol for self defense. I don't need any of the others but I sure want them :beer:
Right now for my personal use I have a 12g pump and a 1911 but I have guns for boys and wife the only other real gun that I might claim a need on is a 454 lever action.

[Hickory]

The 32-20, while is a great cartridge, has a few draw backs.
The first being that is a bottleneck case, carbide dies, if they exist would be very expensive.
Second, the 32-20 is a low pressure round not suitable for hot rodding.
Third, the 32-20 has very thin wall in the case, again not suitable for higher pressure/velocity.
While I have two 32-20 handguns, I enjoy loading & shooting my 32 magnums and the 327 single-seven if it ever shows up at the LGS.

[omgb]

I get very close to 1500 fps with the 115 grn Lyman gc bullet and 10.5 grns of 2400 in my 32-20 rifles. The .327 Fed can't really best that by any meaningful amount. Now, handguns I can see the thinking. So with that in mind I see the reason. As to the bottleneck case in the 32-20, I've never seen it has a handicap any more than I do in the 30-30 or 3006. Like wise the thin walls. If I can get 1500 fps out of the 32-20 in my Browning M52 I see no need to goose it any faster and the 32-20 case works just fine thin as it is.

[dragon813gt]

You get 1500fps w/ the 327 in a revolver. And that's w/ factory loads that aren't at max. The 327 has a higher upper limit and no bottleneck. It's an easier round to load for. You can shoot various different cartridges out of it making it more versatile.

[FLHTC]

I get very close to 1500 fps with the 115 grn Lyman gc bullet and 10.5 grns of 2400 in my 32-20 rifles. The .327 Fed can't really best that by any meaningful amount. Now, handguns I can see the thinking. So with that in mind I see the reason. As to the bottleneck case in the 32-20, I've never seen it has a handicap any more than I do in the 30-30 or 3006. Like wise the thin walls. If I can get 1500 fps out of the 32-20 in my Browning M52 I see no need to goose it any faster and the 32-20 case works just fine thin as it is.

What you achieve with your Browning is done by hand loading. You will never find factory 32-20 ammunition to come close to that. But the 327 can do that right out of the box, without hand loading.
This is your load with a 125 grain bullet in a 7 1/2" barrel.......USFA Sparrow Hawk


125

Rim Rock Keith-style SWC

Alliant

2400

10.5

1462



Now that load will break 1500fps easily in a rifle and with a Lyman 311316, I have used 11 grains of 2400 without any hiccups out of my Blackhawk. As already mentioned, you have to shoot one to appreciate it. Like you said, you can hand load your 32-20 to match the 327 factory ammo. Your 32-20 doesn't stand a chance if you hand load the 327. ;)

[dilly]

I get very close to 1500 fps with the 115 grn Lyman gc bullet and 10.5 grns of 2400 in my 32-20 rifles. The .327 Fed can't really best that by any meaningful amount. Now, handguns I can see the thinking. So with that in mind I see the reason. As to the bottleneck case in the 32-20, I've never seen it has a handicap any more than I do in the 30-30 or 3006. Like wise the thin walls. If I can get 1500 fps out of the 32-20 in my Browning M52 I see no need to goose it any faster and the 32-20 case works just fine thin as it is.

To call it a handicap would be inaccurate. A bottleneck actually allows more velocity with less pressure than a comparable straightwall case, I believe. The drawback is the need to trim and the need to lube cases. Not the end of the world but it's not something I mind skipping in my straightwall cases.

To my knowledge they don't make many 327 FM rifles, maybe a barrel for one of the single shots or something. It's kind of hard to make a straight comparison.

[Tar Heel]

Why on earth does this cartridge exist? The 32-20 is its equal in all areas save one that I can tell. Handguns for the 32-20 are not made to shoot beyond about 800 fps with 115 gr bullets. In good rifles however, the 32-20 will out zip the .327 Fed most of the time so why bother with it?

Well heck...it exists because it does. With one in hand I could shoot that cartridge as well as a few others that I load for. It is what it is therefore it is. As to the 32-20 not being capable of anything over 800fps, you are mistaken. Clearly this load is over 800fps in this .32-20 which delivers exceptional performance.


http://youtu.be/4xmvR_pumPc

[bob208]

it exists for two reasons.

one to sell guns and ammo to the people that have to have the latest.

the other is trying to make the .32 a first line defense cal.

[Bucking the Tiger]

bob208, you nailed it.
H&R tried this idea out in the early 80's with the 32 H&R Magnum. H&R was trying to create a powerful, small revolver with less recoil than the .38/.357 calibers for defensive carry. The .327 is a high pressure version of the 32H&R Magnum.
No factory is going chamber "modern" guns for the 32-20 because it is an old caliber. From a marketing perspective, it is easier to sell a hot,new caliber than a fine old one. They could not sell hot rodded 32-20 ammo because someone would end up putting it in an old 32-20 and wrecking it. This is why the .450 Marlin was created from the 45-70.
I have an old S&W hand ejector with a 5" barrel that shoots fine with handloads. Load data has gotten increasingly milder over the years:I found an old John Taffin load with 4227 that gives a 115gr Keith bullet some teeth. I have to reload: you can't hardly find 32-20 ammo at all around here.
I am interested in getting a .327 Federal in a Ruger Single Seven though. I already load for 32 S&W Long, so this would be very handy in the small bore category. A lot more versatile than a .22LR and cheaper to shoot.

[trapper9260]

I have a BH in 327 and happy with it.You can shoot 5 different carts. that very few you can do that with.If you wonder what the carts are they are 327 fed mag,32 h&r mag, 32 s&w long,32 Auto,32 s&w .Also the 327 was to be a defence round beside other use.For how 22lr are you can use the 32 s&w round to take it place for a low round and will be able to reuse the brass also.This is work works for me .I do not know how others would think on it but it works the way I look for and that is the main reasons I got that gun also.

[sandman228]

to each there own I guess, ive owned a gp100 327 fed for 4 or 5 years now and enjoy shooting it . I bought a single seven a month or so ago and really enjoy shooting it .if you want to say why when it comes to a certain caliber then how about the 357 sig or the 45 gap or the 25 06 ,or how about the 7mm08 or last but not least the 17hmr . I don't care for any of them but that's just my opinion. im sure theres people out there who really like them .different strokes for different folks I guess.

[FLHTC]

to each there own I guess, ive owned a gp100 327 fed for 4 or 5 years now and enjoy shooting it . I bought a single seven a month or so ago and really enjoy shooting it .if you want to say why when it comes to a certain caliber then how about the 357 sig or the 45 gap or the 25 06 ,or how about the 7mm08 or last but not least the 17hmr . I don't care for any of them but that's just my opinion. im sure theres people out there who really like them .different strokes for different folks I guess.
Ooooh now the 25-06 is near and dear to my heart. It bucks the wind far better than the 22-250 or the Swift and in the right rifle, it will shoot the head off a house fly at 100 yards. It's even a fairly decent cast bullet round with the Loverin designs.

[sandman228]

im not trying to offend anyone if I mentioned a caliber they like. like I said those are just my opinions im not a hunter mostly just a range shooter and others have the right to like what they like .

[Outpost75]

The .327 is fine as a varmint round if you like blowing apart creatures you don't plan to eat. However, for any edible small game the .32 H&R Magnum and .32-20 give the desired level of performance, shooting flat enough to make 100-yard shots possible, and without blowing table game to featherburgers.

I find the discussion about its inventors wanting the .327 Federal to be useful as a defense round pure lunacy and fantasy.

If an 85-grain bullet or 1450-1600 fps were so wonderfully effective, our police and military would be carrying M1 carbines, PPsh41s and Tokarev pistols. NO THANK YOU!

The .327 is a dandy varmint gun and could be a small game gun IF used with lower powered ammunition, so that game remains edible and not bloodshot and filled with bone fragments and fur grindings. I prefer to eat right up to the bullet hole without having to pick my teeth afterwards.

A .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Magnum with 115-grain flatnosed bullet from 850-1050 does that job to perfection.

But don't pee on my boot and tell me it's raining. If I were choosing a carry gun for defense, its caliber is going to start with a "4". Its bullet weight will be 180 grains or more and its velocity will be over 900 fps, with a flatnosed bullet having a meplat not less than 0.6 of the bullet diameter.

THEN the bullet doesn't need to do any tricks to perform the work. The .38-40 Winchester and .40 S&W fairly well describe the payload and energy floor level.

The .327 is a varmint load. If you like to have your ears ring when the gun goes off, it will do that. But a firearm need not be run at full power any more than any other machine. The H&R Magnum is to the .327 what .38 Special is to the .357 and those who like to burn powder will. Different strokes. Period.

[dragon813gt]

I think I'm the only one that doesn't have an issue w/ the 327s noise level. No different than shooting any other magnum IMO.

[FLHTC]

The .327 is fine as a varmint round if you like blowing apart creatures you don't plan to eat. However, for any edible small game the .32 H&R Magnum and .32-20 give the desired level of performance, shooting flat enough to make 100-yard shots possible, and without blowing table game to featherburgers.

I find the discussion about its inventors wanting the .327 Federal to be useful as a defense round pure lunacy and fantasy.

If an 85-grain bullet or 1450-1600 fps were so wonderfully effective, our police and military would be carrying M1 carbines, PPsh41s and Tokarev pistols. NO THANK YOU!

The .327 is a dandy varmint gun and could be a small game gun IF used with lower powered ammunition, so that game remains edible and not bloodshot and filled with bone fragments and fur grindings. I prefer to eat right up to the bullet hole without having to pick my teeth afterwards.

A .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Magnum with 115-grain flatnosed bullet from 850-1050 does that job to perfection.

But don't pee on my boot and tell me it's raining. If I were choosing a carry gun for defense, its caliber is going to start with a "4". Its bullet weight will be 180 grains or more and its velocity will be over 900 fps, with a flatnosed bullet having a meplat not less than 0.6 of the bullet diameter.

THEN the bullet doesn't need to do any tricks to perform the work. The .38-40 Winchester and .40 S&W fairly well describe the payload and energy floor level.

The .327 is a varmint load. If you like to have your ears ring when the gun goes off, it will do that. But a firearm need not be run at full power any more than any other machine. The H&R Magnum is to the .327 what .38 Special is to the .357 and those who like to burn powder will. Different strokes. Period.

It might be pure lunacy to you but without sounding like sexists, firearm companies try to appeal to individual groups and genders with their guns. A woman is quite likely to gravitate towards a 32 caliber, as opposed to a 40 or 45 caliber. It's impossible to say that the 327 has no reason for being, based on what is already out there or what one person likes or dislikes. I personally would feel quite comfortable carrying a snub nosed 327 for self defense, simply because I own it and use it.
Now for the hunting aspect of a 327. Back in the day, the 32-20 was used for deer sized game. Some of the old Winchester posters displayed a hunter shouldering his lever action to take aim on a spooked buck. This was while advertising the 32-20 and the 32-40 cartridge. The 327 isn't limited to varmints, any more than the 32-20 isn't adequate for deer. If anything, the 32-20 has made a quantum leap due to hand loading and modern firearm design so how can the 32-20 be useful for deer but the 327 only be adequate for varmints?
I feel it would be terribly narrow minded to say that the 327 is only good for rabbits and squirrels with low power loads. Those who own them would certainly agree as well. As for the noise, that's a given for a center fire cartridge and I don't feel it's any more troublesome than the 357 or the 44 mag. One of my loads in the 327 is 11 grains of 2400 and I somehow don't see the need to be thrifty with that. After all, that is 636 rounds per pound so in order to have the bullet exit the barrel, we all have to burn powder.

[bob208]

well outpost you better go back and read some of the hype when it first came out. it was being touted as good as a .357 for defense.

[paracordkydexcummins]

It's a fair compromise carry a smaller faster round an get an extra round or carry a larger slower round and have a max of 6 in standard carry revolvers . If. You want 7 or 8 you have to step up to a lager gun like the 8 shot 357 smith yet that gun can be had in a 44 mag so then you back to the same questions what is the max size/weight you want to carry? Do you want to have more rounds or a larger caliber?

[dilly]

It was originally marketed for self defense but it seems like a lot of the current interest in it is gravitating toward varmint hunting and plinking. People like the single actions with long barrels and a lot of people wish they could find a lever gun in it.

[dragon813gt]

well outpost you better go back and read some of the hype when it first came out. it was being touted as good as a .357 for defense.

And this could be why it never caught on. It was touted as an equal to the 357. On paper it is. But it leaves a smaller hole w/ a lighter bullet. I will never tell someone their choice of self defense cartridge is a poor one. I just think they shouldn't have pumped up the self defense aspect of the 327. In a rifle it would be hell on deer sized game w/ correct shot placement. When you shoot these tiny little bullets at steel plates and they swing like you hit them w/ a much larger bullet it's quite impressive. Trying to keep a smile off your face while shooting it is next to impossible.

[omgb]

I can see how if a guy had a revolver in .327 FM he might want a custom lever gun in it too. I hand load the 32-20 and have for years. Now that CA has banned lead bullets that gun sits a lot. Its only use being paper punching. I took a deer with the 115 grn Lyman bullet and 10.5 grns of 2400 a couple of decades ago. It was a short range shot but it did the trick. So, I wanted to see why so many like the .327. Now I know.

[Dan Cash]

I get very close to 1500 fps with the 115 grn Lyman gc bullet and 10.5 grns of 2400 in my 32-20 rifles. The .327 Fed can't really best that by any meaningful amount. Now, handguns I can see the thinking. So with that in mind I see the reason. As to the bottleneck case in the 32-20, I've never seen it has a handicap any more than I do in the 30-30 or 3006. Like wise the thin walls. If I can get 1500 fps out of the 32-20 in my Browning M52 I see no need to goose it any faster and the 32-20 case works just fine thin as it is.

I concur 100%. You guys breaking bad on the .32-20 and how bottle neck requiers so much "extra" case prep an such flat don't know shat you are talking about. This is not to take away from the .327 in any fashion but with a revolver built to handle the potential of the .32-20 it would not be your hind tit cartridge. I shoot a Marlin 94 in the .32-20 and before the year is outm I will have a revolver that will handle the 10 grain charge of 2400 and be hog happy.

[dragon813gt]

It does require extra case prep. You have to lube to size. You will have to trim. Neither is a big deal but they are extra steps. Bottle neck cases on average don't last as long as straight wall cases. The 32-20 is no slouch but it can't compete at the top end.

[Tackleberry41]

Several reasons have been offered, one is probably very true, its an excuse to sell you a new gun. Guns arent like cars where your replacing them all the time. A gun that your great grandfather killed deer with will do the exact same job today. Didnt seem like that long ago every company had to come up with some version of the 300ABC, proprietary of course.

The 32-20 loaded to its potential may well be the equal of the 327mag. But like the 45 colt a factory 32-20 cant be loaded to the hot specs. Yea in a modern gun not an issue, but always somebody who will stuff it in an old gun, then lawyers are involved. So with that handicap, nobody is going to be making modern revolvers in 32-20 anytime soon.

Guess I can see something to the 327mag, like getting an extra round in a small revolver, and still pack some punch. Not that I have seen one for sale anywhere, then again never really looked. I have had an itch to get another wheel gun, but doubt it would be something I have to go buy yet another type of ammo for or more reloading dies for. Place around the corner has a really nice lady smith in 357, yea the bad guy can laugh all they want about my ladies gun, tho hard to do with a punctured lung.

[Surculus]

Why on earth does this cartridge exist? The 32-20 is its equal in all areas save one that I can tell. Handguns for the 32-20 are not made to shoot beyond about 800 fps with 115 gr bullets. In good rifles however, the 32-20 will out zip the .327 Fed most of the time so why bother with it?

It exists because someone wanted to realize the unfulfilled promise of the 32 H&R Magnum, & had to make it so that it wouldn't be chambered in an older gun & blow it up, just like .357 Magnum is much bigger than it needs to be with modern powders, so it won't blow up a 38S&W Special handgun. The 38S&W Special is as big as it is because it had to be bigger than the 38S&W, one of the last of the BP handgun rounds [which is why it is so much bigger than say, an equivalent 380acp, which was smokeless from the beginning.]


I could ask why a lot of cartridges exist. 40 S&W is at the top of the list because I consider it a worthless cartridge. The .40S&W exists so you can fit the FBI load for the 10mm Mag into a 9mm-sized grip frame & sell more pistols, pure & simple. Is the 10mm better/more capable in every meaningful measure? Of course, but it's a long MF that most people aren't prepared to shoot in full-power form, so shrinking it down to the compact form factor of the 40S&W makes a lot of sense. And it may have saved the 10mm from utter extinction, since a %age of people who would never have bought the big dog 10mm likely became interested in one after testing the waters w/ the 40short&weak... ;)

Lots of cartridges exist simply for the reason that someone, somewhere thought it would be a good idea, and whether or not you would approve never entered their mind! ;)

[bigdog454]

30 carbine, avaliable in hand gun (ruger), avaliable in rifle, high velocity, "battle proven" .
you can also use 32-20 brass, if you shorten them a bit.
there, all problems solved.
BD