First Sewer Job Proves Rewarding

[PBSmith]

Thanks to you lead runners for your tips on working with sewer pipe collars. I sprung for 125 lbs (50 cents per) and turned up the heat under a Dutch oven found at a local pawn shop for $10.

Everything went well. I was expecting the worst in fumes but was pleasantly surprised. For someone who grew up downwind of western Pennsylvania's steel mills, coke batteries and zinc smelters, the aroma of melted sewer lead is almost perfume. As my late father often said, "Everything is relative."

And the return on investment seems good. Net proceeds amounted to 120 pounds muffin ingot. Aside from the oakum, very little crud rose to a strong beeswax flux.

Been playing with the old NRA/Lyman BHN ball bearing indentation test. This sewer material is the softest lead messed with yet, so I've switched to using it as my baseline or standard for testing new alloy. Density by immersion weighing showed a specific gravity of 11.35.

[cbrick]

Ok, here we go again. If all you used was beeswax you did not flux your alloy. Beeswax is not flux. Beeswax cannot flux. It is a good reducer of Sn or Sb but remove anything detrimental or unwanted? Impossible.

Go here, read chapter 4 on fluxing and you will understand why you didn't flux your alloy as you thought you did.

From Ingot to Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf)

Lot's of old wives tales still floating around and that wax will flux is certainly one of them. Yes, I understand it's still in print in some places, old wives tales die hard it seems.

Rick

[RogerDat]

sawdust that is not from treated, particle or other glued wood product is a good flux. Few bucks will buy a big bag of cedar wood chip pet bedding that will flux a whole lot of lead.

Lot of folks use sawdust a couple or three times during the smelt to pull the crud out then add wax once or even twice to help drive the good stuff (Sn & Sb) back into the melt as they make ingots.

[therealhitman]

I tried to search CB for threads or comments on sewer pipe collars, being intrigued by any and all unknown-to-me lead sources. I found nothing but this thread. Help a brother out. What am I missing? Got links?

[RogerDat]

I tried to search CB for threads or comments on sewer pipe collars, being intrigued by any and all unknown-to-me lead sources. I found nothing but this thread. Help a brother out. What am I missing? Got links?

Sewer pipe used to be sealed with lead, when that pipe get torn out or replaced people smelt the "seam" of lead. The lead was used to fill the joint where the flared pipe had the next pipe inserted. Looks like a big crud covered ring of lead. This is different than lead water pipe that will have soldered joints. That pipe is pretty much plain lead but the joints have tin solder much as copper pipes would. Sorry no pictures.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209728-What-type-of-lead-alloy-is-used-to-joint-steel-sewer-pipe
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?264698-Getting-Moisture-out-of-WW-and-Sewer-Pipe-Joints
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?155613-cast-iron-pipe-solder
(http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?155613-cast-iron-pipe-solder)

[therealhitman]

Awesome. Thanks for the effort and info. Knowledge is power.

[cbrick]

sawdust that is not from treated, particle or other glued wood product is a good flux. Few bucks will buy a big bag of cedar wood chip pet bedding that will flux a whole lot of lead.

Lot of folks use sawdust a couple or three times during the smelt to pull the crud out then add wax once or even twice to help drive the good stuff (Sn & Sb) back into the melt as they make ingots.

Using wax of course won't hurt anything, a bit redundant but for those that it makes feel better it won't hurt anything. Sawdust is a reducer, every bit as good a reducer as is beeswax so after both fluxing and reducing with sawdust about the only thing left for the wax to accomplish is making the user feel better. If your melt has been sitting for awhile especially with the temp up a little high reducing again may help because the surface could have oxidized again.

Anyway that's a round a bout way of saying that using both sawdust and wax is not necessary, sawdust does both.

Rick

[Hardcast416taylor]

I was an industrial pipefitter/plumber/steamfitter for 35 1/2 years before I retired. I was trained early on by some crusty old types on the correct way to do a lead/oakum joint. We used pure soft lead that we melted with a plumbers furnace on the site and handed a large ladel of the molten lead up to the man on a ladder doing the joint. Was sprinkled several times by spillage on the joint with "warm" lead. When I retired for the last time in `03 there was only 1 man left on our 90 man crew that still knew how to do this joint.Robert

[Ken G]

For those that may not have seen it before here are a couple of pictures. The first is a few pieces of lead water lines.

The second is the remains of a lead joint that was installed around 1910. An 8" cast iron water main was tapped off a 24" cast iron main. A flanged sleeve, with tee, bolted around the larger main and this lead apparently was poured in the joint sealing the sleeve. The joint was about 12" wide and over 1/2" thick, it wrapped completely around the 24" pipe.

129335129336

[RogerDat]

Using wax of course won't hurt anything, a bit redundant but for those that it makes feel better it won't hurt anything. Sawdust is a reducer, every bit as good a reducer as is beeswax so after both fluxing and reducing with sawdust about the only thing left for the wax to accomplish is making the user feel better. If your melt has been sitting for awhile especially with the temp up a little high reducing again may help because the surface could have oxidized again.

Anyway that's a round a bout way of saying that using both sawdust and wax is not necessary, sawdust does both.

Rick

While I do rely on the sawdust to do the real work, I find the wax residue a little less messy and easier to skim off during a session. As I'm working my way through a pot already fluxed with sawdust I toss a small piece of wax in maybe a couple of times to help keep the good stuff in the melt. Find the sawdust alone seems to work fine also. Lot cheaper than bees wax too. Have not tried candle or paraffin wax.

[woodbutcher]

:smile: Used to use cedar saw dust from when I heated with wood.Never had any complaints about nasty smells from the neighbors.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Sgt Petro]

Ok, here we go again. If all you used was beeswax you did not flux your alloy. Beeswax is not flux. Beeswax cannot flux. It is a good reducer of Sn or Sb but remove anything detrimental or unwanted? Impossible.

Go here, read chapter 4 on fluxing and you will understand why you didn't flux your alloy as you thought you did.

From Ingot to Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf)

Lot's of old wives tales still floating around and that wax will flux is certainly one of them. Yes, I understand it's still in print in some places, old wives tales die hard it seems.

Rick

I still learn stuff here! I've bounced between pariffin and sawdust over the years. Never really paying much attention (just grabbed what was close). Thanks for the link cbrick.

[cbrick]

:smile: Used to use cedar saw dust from when I heated with wood.Never had any complaints about nasty smells from the neighbors.
Good luck.Have fun. Be safe. Leo

It's not a nasty smell with Cedar, most people like the smell. Even the 20% of the population that is supposed to be allergic to it.

Rick

[jsizemore]

Would the oakum used in the make up of the joint act as flux?

[Frank46]

I had the pleasure of scarfing the sealing rings on a retired 6 foot gas main dating back to the 1890's. Buddy next door needed some help working on his boat and when done and as we were enjoying a few adult beverages I asked if he needed any lead. Seems he had been looking for some to start casting sinkers and jigs. Came next door to where I lived and in the back yard was easily 200 pounds of the stuff. So for the next couple 4th of july's could get just about any fireworks I wanted. Really did like them M-80's. Frank

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've actually packed oakum, and I'm still a young 61! My dad poured the lead. That ole plumber's pot is still on the place where I grew up. Dad became a plumber after getting out of the army following WWII. After about 15 years he made the move to be a farmer, which I think he always wanted. Few people out in that western KS county knew that a Master Plumber even existed. He kept his license active until he was in his 80's. A few side jobs helped feed his family. Farming did not do so good.