Winchester 94 30-30 OAL question

[Battis]

I have a Winchester '94 30-30 on hold. According to the serial number it was made in the 1970s. The wood is worn but good, the bore is really good, the action is good, the metal is pretty bad but still looks good in its own way (no pitting, just worn).
Is the tubular magazine of this rifle as cartridge OAL sensitive as the Vetterli .41 Swiss, where the OAL has to be 2.2" to work?
They're asking $250 which seems pretty good for this rifle.

[RickinTN]

I don't know that the magazine is sensitive to OAL but the action is. If I recall correctly the maximum recommended length of a 30-30 round is 2.550". My 70's production '94 will take a little longer round, but not much. When the rounds get too long they won't clear the front of the action while feeding from the magazine to the chamber. Also a loaded round much longer than 2.550" won't clear the ejection port.
Hope this helps,
Rick

[Battis]

That's the same with the .41 Swiss. Too long, too short and they won't feed. Makes sense that it'd be the same with the Winchester 94. The advantage with the Winchester is that the brass is available already made - I had to form the .41 Swiss brass, and getting it right is taking some time. I'm still at the Thinking Stage about the Winchester. I have a bunch of .308 bullets, a Lee mold, powder...looks like a great rifle.

[John Boy]

Reload the round to SAAMI COL - chamber it ... check the bullet nose engraving. If it chambers too deep - Shorten the OAL.
Works every time - Not Rocket Science

[Battis]

I'm not talking about the round chambering, I'm talking about it loading from the tubular magazine. My question was, is the overall length of the round as critical as it is in the Vetterli, in regards to using the magazine. Rocket science - no. If it was, I'd ask a Rocket Scientist.

[RickinTN]

Usually shorter than the 2.550" won't create any problems of course dependent on bullet nose shape. You would probably have difficulty in getting a flush seated wadcutter to function properly but somewhat short doesn't seem to matter in mine.
Rick

[woody1]

Will shorter lengths feed thru the magazine? Yes they will. That said, I don't have any post '64 Winchester '94's, but I don't think the feed mechanism was changed. Regards, Woody

[milrifle]

FWIW, we have a pre-64 and a post-64 Win 94 in 30-30. They will both reliably feed both the 150 gr and the 170 gr Lee FN bullets seated in the crimp groove. I've not measured the OAL, but the difference in OAL is probably on the order of 1/8" between cartridges using the two different bullets, so I'd have to say "No, they are not that sensitive to OAL."

[olafhardt]

I have found that cartridge OAL really comes into play when trying to feed pointed bullets. The longest I could get to feed as a two shooter was the Hornady 130 grain.

[OverMax]

Really~~~ your comparing a Vetterli's short comings to a Winchesters 94s. {Now there's a stretch.} Quite similar to asking someone if they think the Model T Ford has the same reliability issues as a 2015 Lincoln.

[Battis]

Really...do you know anything about the Vetterli magazine? Not a stretch at all. Do some googling before dumping on people. And it's "you're", not "your".
I just get tired of people's lack of courtesy when responding to a good question. Don't like the question, don't know the answer, then don't reply.

"The Swiss Vetterli rifles combined the American Winchester Model 1866 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_rifle#Winchester_Model_1866)'s tubular magazine with a regular bolt featuring for the first time two opposed rear locking lugs..."

"The Swiss Vetterli rifle, designed by Swiss designer Friedrich Vetterli, the manager of the Neuhausen factory, and adopted in both Switzerland and Italy, utilized a Henry (Winchester) M1866 type tubular magazine and a bolt system derived from the German Dreyse needle fire rifle. The Swiss Vetterli was the first repeating rifle widely adopted for military service."

[45-70 Chevroner]

In defense of OverMax!! I really don't see what you problem is, maybe just a little touchy. You are comparing a bolt action tube feed rifle to a lever action, and there is no comparison. They are built totally different. As for his grammar, that was an easy mistake to make. I have seen a lot worse on here and most of us can figure out what is being said in spite of it. Oh! and by the way you can't embarrass me by making a snide remark. I am also sure that you did not embarrass OverMax either.

[Battis]

I'm not trying to embarrass anyone so why was he trying to do it to me? A little touchy? Yeah, OK. I should have just taken it and shut up, right? Yeah, OK.
And there is a comparison - if you can read, you can see that the Vetterli mag was based on the Winchester mag. Quite a reach, huh? How is that like comparing a Model T to a 2015 Lincoln?
How about this - I run all my questions by you before I submit them.
There are people out there that can be crude, rude, crass and just plain nasty in their responses, but many of them also provide some good solid info and answers to questions, so it's worth it to take their ****. But, when people post replies like yours and what's-his-face that have no value, just to show how funny or tough they are, well, that is time wasted.
Now, you better get busy and fly around the internet and defend those that need defending.
This is a good forum and deserves better than open arguments like this that would have been better handled in a PM. With that in mind, I will end it now.

[OverMax]

Removed on purpose

[lobogunleather]

I once made the mistake of trying some cast bullet loads that were a bit longer than usual OAL in .30-30 Winchester Model 94. Long drive home to completely disassemble the rifle and clear the round that was tying up the action. I won't make that mistake again.

[Farmer&shooter]

Me too lobogunleather, same experience. They can really get jammed in the carrier if they are too long.

[sthwestvictoria]

I have a pre-64 and have never had a problem with OAL in the 1894 or Marlins 336 rifles. I load the 170grain Lee to 2.57inches and down to the little Lee 90-314-SWC (in my avatar picture) barely poking out the case that feeds fine.

[rintinglen]

Any firearm that uses a carrier to lift a cartridge up to the chamber will have a point where a cartridge too long will jam the gun. Some can have difficulty with rounds that are too short as well.
The M-94 in My Experience will run from 2.25" to 2.55" reliably. It will jam with 30 Marlin Hornady's seated to the crimp groove. Always bring multiple guns when driving long distances to the range.
I have no experience with the Vetterli, other than looking at them.

[FromTheWoods]

I had never heard of them until this thread appeared. Seems as if they might tip over a moose.--http://collectorguns35625.yuku.com/forums/2/Swiss-Vetterli-Forum#.VNrRli5526Q

[krallstar]

If to long an oal, it will not clear the tube when working the lever. If it is top loader you can load 1 at a time and get maybe a longer oal.

[Kestrel4k]

I really had a hankering to use the SAECO/Redding 64352 (250 gr 358 FN w/ crimp groove) in my M94AE .356Win, and found that it wasn't too big of a problem to solve its OAL of 0.080" over max:

I found a spare lifter and got 0.080" milled out of the back end, permitting longer cartridges to clear the magazine tube.

Also ground a slight bevel on the bottom edge of the bolt to let the now-slightly-rearward rim clear easier during the lifting cycle.
Works perfectly, not too big of a deal, really.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp33/Kestrel4000/CMP%20Forums/IMG_8842.jpg

[shootrj2003]

For what it’s worth,I being slightly familiar with those two rifles knew why he was referring to the vetterli I’m not sure how similar the carrier design is have heard it was based on the Winchester system,perhaps we shouldn’t be so quick to acknowledge someone’s apparent ignorance before we find out if we are maybe lacking in some essential design history and if we espy some percieved ignorance ask and help rather than mock…MOCKERY… is NOT a good thing…it is a bad ,bad thing ….it should be crushed out!!……. Oh,sorry …,a pet piev

[FergusonTO35]

Every 94 or 336 I have owned fed just fine with bullets/boolits seated to the crimp groove. If you get a jam where the bullet doesn't appear to be coming all the way out of the mag tube and catches on the rear of the latter, you probably have a weak mag spring. If the mag spring is strong enough, it should have no trouble pushing the entire cartridge onto the lifter with gusto. When replacing them, I always add a few extra coils over factory.

[indian joe]

I once made the mistake of trying some cast bullet loads that were a bit longer than usual OAL in .30-30 Winchester Model 94. Long drive home to completely disassemble the rifle and clear the round that was tying up the action. I won't make that mistake again.

Push the carrier back down with the round on it - then use a pencil or such to push the round forward into the magazine - while you hold the offending round forward push the loading gate inward - let the long round back out the gate butt first - if you keep the gate held in (open) you can empty the entire magazine out with some jiggling --have done this a few times .

[725]

I managed to jam up a 94 with a cartridge too long once. I took the retaining cap off the end of the mag tube and removed the spring, etc. and they all just slid right out. Problem solved.

[725]

I managed to jam up a 94 once. I removed the retaining end of the mag tube and dropped out the spring, etc. and all the rounds slid right out. Problem solved.

[roysha]

Really~~~ your comparing a Vetterli's short comings to a Winchesters 94s. {Now there's a stretch.} Quite similar to asking someone if they think the Model T Ford has the same reliability issues as a 2015 Lincoln.

Well, they are both ford products so the answer would be yes because they are both fords, one an old poj and the other a new poj.

[indian joe]

I managed to jam up a 94 with a cartridge too long once. I took the retaining cap off the end of the mag tube and removed the spring, etc. and they all just slid right out. Problem solved.

great if that cap screw and cap comes out ok at the range - some do some dont - couple Ubertis with screw in caps come to mind
all of which says we should be checking function before we go out of the house eh!

[Hick]

I have a post-64 Win 94 made about 1968-- which should be the same at the 70's vintage. It will feed from the magazine up to about 2.570, and it will take spitzers over 2.70 as long as I feed single shot (not from the magazine).