Shooting Heavy Boollit Flinters?

[Good Cheer]

What experiences have you had with flintlocks shooting heavy boolits?
Any spectacular perpendicular fares?
Flash hole erosion noticed?
Accuracy noticeably different from percussion?

I've wondered about elevation changes at longer ranges. Soon I get to find out with a flintlock TC Renegade in .52 (with the tried and true 28" twist).

[DIRT Farmer]

Just remember to warn people to the pan side of your gun.
All I have wver fired is ball and in some guns shot. Heiver shot loads will make the touchhole liner become a self primer.

[johnson1942]

my long range paperpatched .50 cal 1/23 twist precussion side lock has 2 small vent holes on the breech area where the powder is. one on the left and one on the right at a 45 degree angle. they make for very very fast complete ignition. the total diam of both hole must be a little more than a flinter. i figured if the ever burnt out bigger and bigger i would just drill them out and tap them and put a screw in each hole. so far they are clean. the only 2 negative things is once i put finger over the hole on the right side when concentrateing ver hard to aim good. felt like a hammer hit it. never do that again. also makes the gun a lot louder when it goes off. i dont know if it will help with your question but ft per sec is affected very very little if any and accracy is still very good. breech area is cleaner from better more complete combustion. i think beside pushing the air out ahead of the fired primer it may even then suck air to more complely burn the powder. i wish some one could tell me yes or no on the last statement. cant tell you if you will have pan problems with a heavy bullet but dont see why you should have any more touch hole trouble than normal, but that is only a guess. keep up posted, i have been waiting a couple of years for some one to built a paperpatch fast twist muzzle loader to see how it goes. i would put my money on one set up right in a match. it seams to me the flinters can be made to shoot very tight and maybe tighter than the precussion. more complete even powder burn. go for it and again keep us posted.

[waksupi]

Good Cheer, you will be getting a lot of practice installing new vents. Buy them by the dozen.

[rhbrink]

Maybe you could get a platinum lined vent?

[Good Cheer]

Drilling holes in the center of stainless set screws may become another hobby. :rolleyes:

Appreciate the input. The shot to shot variations brought about by back flow will be interesting to investigate.

[waksupi]

Drilling holes in the center of stainless set screws may become another hobby. :rolleyes:

Appreciate the input. The shot to shot variations brought about by back flow will be interesting to investigate.

I did find a source of threaded stainless steel rod to use for replacement vents, for when I don't have a standard one available. I caught hell for that from the guys on ALR. They insist it will not be a good quality thread. They obviously haven't ever seen the rod used, and it is certainly better than whatever steel was used way back when for the purpose.

[Plastikosmd]

I know a very successful bench gun shooter who built a slug gun, platinum liner, I can't remember the caliber, something around 50-60 I think.

One of my smaller slug guns at .485 shoots a slug at about 650 grains for reference

[rhbrink]

Flintlock = round ball

Capper = whatever

Just my opinion

[DIRT Farmer]

Flintlock = round ball

Capper = whatever

Just my opinion


What no shot loads? (laughing)

[rhbrink]

Shot is round balls?:lol:

[varsity07840]

I shoot a .72 flinter round ball and haven't had any erosion problems.

Duane

[waksupi]

I shoot a .72 flinter round ball and haven't had any erosion problems.

Duane

He's wanting to shoot slugs.

[Eddie2002]

Just was given a box of 80 conical boolits for a .50 cal ML. They weigh in at 385 grains and are .507 diameter. I was wondering what powder charge to use or should I just melt them down for my flinter.

[varsity07840]

He's wanting to shoot slugs.
I'm aware of that. My point is that my rather heavy .710 ball and a hefty charge (150 gr 2F)has not caused erosion. The touchhole on a "small bore" is that same size as for a .72. Projectile weight is more or less equal.

Duane

[Coffeecup]

Charges and projectile weight are roughly equal, but pressures are not, due to bore size. Pressure is what causes the touch hole erosion.

[Good Cheer]

Pressure and duration (time in bore). The Renegade 26" barrel is pretty short. Shorter than I'd usually prefer.
But, the other .52 is going to have a 38" percussion barrel.
Currently I shoot a New Englander .458 bore with 26" barrel and a .40 bore Lyman GPR with 32" barrel.
The TC doesn't eat nipples fast (all things being relative) but the GPR does.
Looking forward to 200 plus yard shooting to see what kind of groups I can get with the 38". First patched boolits are going to be the Lyman 450 grainer plain base.

[johnson1942]

my three side lock precussion rifles are fast twist. two are 1/23 twist and one is a 1/28 twist. one shoots a 686 grain paperpatched bullet, one shoots a 700 plus grains bullet and one shoots a 535 grain bullet. recoil is something i never think about as the reply to this post above is right, these large cal dont have the pressure because of the large bore. my 45/70/s have a harsher recoil even if they use less powder and a lighter bullet. i suspect that a .52 wont have that much of a recoil that will make you think about it. so with the less pressure the flash hole may not be a problem. a .40 cal flinter with a 400 or 450 grain bullet and 70 grain of 2f may cause more problems than a .52 cal. every body here is a problem fixer and when you get the gun shootin you will keep it shootin. keep us posted.

[varsity07840]

Charges and projectile weight are roughly equal, but pressures are not, due to bore size. Pressure is what causes the touch hole erosion.
So does my .710 ball behind 150 gr of 2F in a .72 bore create less pressure than a

heavy conical with a 70 gr charge in a 45 or 50 cal? Not a gotcha ya question. I'm interested.


Duane

[Coffeecup]

Yes, due to the volume of the bore. Um, quick analogy: water in hoses. A 10 gallon per minute flow of water through a garden hose will spray fairly far; the same volume flowing through a fire hose barely runs out the end of the hose.

If you look at it like a hydraulics problem, the first thing to remember is that the pressure is the same on all surfaces in a vessel (including the "non-surface" where the hose is open). When the powder is ignited, generally speaking the volume of gas produced will be the same in both rifles (like the volume of water flowing is the same in both hoses of our example). A fire hose--or the bore of your .72--has both more surface area (resulting in the pressure being distributed over a greater area, so lower "per-square-unit" pressure), and a greater volume (so the volume of gas produced by the combustion of the powder can be distributed/bled off more quickly).

[johnson1942]

i believe a 38/55 blckpowder cartridge creates more pressure than a 50/70 sharps. the sharps is a freight train and the 38/55 is at the lower end of the scale of power. people are afraid sometimes to make or buy the big bore muzzleloader because of recoil, however that can be false and the big bores can recoil less than the mid sized bores.

[Lead Fred]

My 45 cal flinter spits out a patch round ball at 2033fps, why would I want to shoot anything else?

Took out a rottweiler at 80 yards, and that aint no small dog

[Plastikosmd]

I think some terms are being confused here, imho. The overall pressure and how it is distributed in 2 volumes are not the same thing as a lower "pressure." (We won't get into the heavier projectile weight to add more confusion. ) Don't forget a greater volume or greater area as u are saying may have a lower " psi", but remember, u did increase the other side of the formula, area, the "inches."

The hose example and how far water will "shoot" is tricky. As you go to a smaller hose the same given volume of water is bring forced though it ( in your example) velocity is increasing but pressure is decreasing.

[Coffeecup]

You're right. I was trying for a quick post that would convey the general idea, rather than spending a couple of hours digging out the numbers for a detailed explanation that no one would actually read.

[Plastikosmd]

No worries, I love this stuff and still find myself very confused at times

Kinda like putting your thumb on a garden hose

You are not increasing pressure, u are increasing velocity and decreasing flow. If velocity is going up, pressure is going down, wild ( at the orifice)
hose pressure should be higher as less water is exiting I would guess, approaching the systems psi once u finally occlude flow. Or max pressure at 0 velocity

[ejcrist]

What experiences have you had with flintlocks shooting heavy boolits?
Any spectacular perpendicular fares?
Flash hole erosion noticed?
Accuracy noticeably different from percussion?

I've wondered about elevation changes at longer ranges. Soon I get to find out with a flintlock TC Renegade in .52 (with the tried and true 28" twist).

I've never used any myself but hunted with a fellow that used TC maxi's in his 45 caliber TC Hawken for deer seasons. That Hawken had relatively shallow rifling of 1:48 and as such wasn't very accurate. It worked when he was able to get close inside about 25 yards, but prb's were more accurate at all ranges. I believe for TC maxi's to work you'd want a much faster twist like 1:30 or less. Just my opinion of course.

[Whiterabbit]

Drilling holes in the center of stainless set screws may become another hobby. :rolleyes:


I work in the vacuum industry, we use vented fasteners for vacuum integrity. You can buy SS screws with the holes already in them. Just cut to length :)