wheel led for core

[muzzleblastm38]

Is it easy to sage 22lr to 223 with wheel les core

[goblism]

depends on the press and type of wheel lead. Stick on wheel weights are fairly soft and work quite well when making 22LR to 224 bullets. Clip on wheel weights require a lot more pressure which i would not advise.

[blaser.306]

depends on the press and type of wheel lead. Stick on wheel weights are fairly soft and work quite well when making 22LR to 224 bullets. Clip on wheel weights require a lot more pressure which i would not advise.
In my opinion, it will depend on :
(a) press
(b) die type and design for example Corbin "H" dies will take higher internal pressure than "M" dies will.
(c) type of lead used
(d) ambient temp of the lead and environment
(e) how much "vigor" is used on the handle end of things.
These are all purely speculation, YMMV. Use at your own risk ETC.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Yes you can but it's not a good habit to get into. Trade the ww lead for softer lead. It will be easier on you and your expensive swaging equipment. Softer lead will make every stage easier.

Of course this post assumes you are talking about clip-on wheel weights. Stick on wheel weights are just fine.

[tiger762]

Yes you can but it's not a good habit to get into. Trade the ww lead for softer lead.

Agreed. COWW is good to go for 223 but it is far more convenient to have soft lead on hand to be able to swage anything.

What I do is look at the ratio of the cross-sectional areas of the finished core diameter as well as the lead coming out the side of the die. For my RCE kit, we have 0.191" and 0.078". The cross-sectional areas are: 0.029 in^2 and 0.005 in^2, respectively. The ratio there is 0.029/.005 = 5.996. This is like calculations dealing with hydraulics. The force pushing the lead out the side is 6 times LESS than what the ram is pushing on the core with. There is a sort of mechanical DISadvantage at work here. The greater that ratio becomes, the harder it is to swage the core. Take an extreme example the other way: 45cal cores are 0.418" and the bleed hole is 0.093". Areas are 0.137 and 0.007 in^2. Ratio is 20.2:1. One-twentieth of the force the ram applies, is felt by the lead flowing out the side of the die.

So, use COWW but just know that you're at your press's upper limits. This also assumes you're using a real swaging press. I never really could geehaw to using a reloading press. Not enough mechanical advantage and too much slop...

[MUSTANG]

General Julian S. Hatchers cites on page 25 (chapter 3 – Brief History of the 30-06, the .30 M1, and the .30 M2 Cartridges) of his book A Standard Reference Book for Shooters, Gunsmiths, Ballisticians, Historians, Hunters and Collectors that the original 1906 ball ammunition had a bullet core composition ratio of 1 part tin to 29 parts lead ( 3.3% tin and 96.7% lead). In the post WW-I testing and development to extend range of the 30-06 with a boat tailed bullet, they changed the bullet core composition to 1 part antimony to 7 parts lead (12.5% antimony and 87.5% lead). Later in the 1930’s as part of the shorter range M2 (flat based bullet ~152 grains) they started using “reclaimed Lead” from batteries rather than “Virgin Lead” mixtures which were harder than pure lead, but of unspecified compositions.

129306


I have read other citations on this site and others that the M1 and M2 Ordnance Specifications to manufacturers in the 1920's and 1930's had (if I recall correctly) requirements for antimony content of 2% to 13% for different lots procured. I was unable to find those citations. Current production of Core material for jacketed bullets do not use “Pure Lead”; rather the manufacturers will blend the core alloy to meet their design requirements for Target, Law enforcement/Military, Hunting, etc…

The Los Angeles Silhouette Shooting Club has an on line article on lead alloy’s (http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm) that cites clip on wheel weights are 0.5% tin, 2% antimony, and 97.5% lead. The actual composition over time has varied as wheel weights were often made from salvaged lead sources, but they were always harder than pure lead.

Almost a century ago we were using bullet core compositions that were not “Pure Lead” for swaging bullets, rather the alloy was hardened with antimony to get a harder/tougher core to enhance ballistic (not terminal) performance.

When I first started swaging with my Corbin .224 dies I followed Corbin’s published directions to only use pure lead. Over time because of my personal readings, and ability to find lead at a reasonable price, I have migrated to using harder materials, including Wheel Weight sources. I am currently using Lead “Isotope Cores” (Lead containers previously used to hold radiological sources) as my core material. I believe it is also about 0.5% tin, 2% antimony, and 97.5%. Using my Lee Hardness tester I have measured them between 10 to 11 BHN after smelting into ingots, (As an aside, I have heat treated cast boolits from this same known alloy and achieved 25 BHN to 28 BHN after aging a few weeks). I have been thinking about a test next summer of Heat Treating some Swaged .224’s and .30's with this alloy core to see what the results are for accuracy over distance, particularly with Swaged bullets of 70 to 90 grains in the .224's.



Bottom line is that Wheel Weights and other alloys are not recommended by the Swaging Dies manufacturers, but harder alloys have been used for a century – albeit in commercial operations with what are probably thicker dies. I have made the choice to use an alloy of ~ 0.5% tin, 2% antimony, and 97.5% for my cores and have not had problems to date. Should I damage a die, that would be as a result of my actions and choices and not the manufacturer of my dies.