S&W Hand Ejector 1905 2nd I believe, 32-20 accuracy

[joken]

I'm not a revolver guy, but I wanted a 32-20 to go with my Winchester M55. Nice looking gun with no external pitting, just normal patina. The bore is shiny with very minor roughness and the rifling looks OK. I don't know what the rifling should look like compared to my 1911, but I suspect the groves are deeper on the S&W. I've had a couple guy's tell me that it is tight and mechanically in very good condition. Problem is, it isn't accurate at all. 6" patterns with a rest at 15 yards. I slugged the barrel today and it is 2 thousands or a bit more smaller than my commercial cast bullets. I got a bunch of bullets with the gun. Any suggestions ? Thanks a lot, Ken

[9.3X62AL]

Ah, 32-20 revolvers. Pull up a chair, and we'll try to get you up to speed.

I have 3 of these rollers, one very much like your own--a S&W M&P with 5" barrel. Its throats are .314", and you can FORGET any factory loads shooting fer beans in it. Once I cast up some 120 grain flatnoses that actually fit those wide throats, and used a powder known to give good work in this problematic caliber (5.5-6.0 grains of SR-4756), it shot a LOT better for me.

Casings.......try to find some Starline brass if at all possible. 32-20 brass by Red and Green stretches upon firing something awful and unevenly, and you'll need to trim and square up the Starlines every third firing or so. This is better than EVERY firing with the mainstream brass. It is that thin and soft, and it will buckle if you look at it hard.

Try a variety of small pistol primers in your loads, and if none of those produce a single-best then try Remingtom 6-1/2 caps. These are a small light-caliber rifle cap, meant for rifle cartridges this size. Group sizes in my 22 Hornet--30 Carbine revolver--25/20 and 32/20 rifles all benefited from their use. The S&W can light them off. My thoughts are that your initial ammo may have been primed with SR primers other than Rem 6-1/2, and they are way too much of a good thing in this caliber. Small pistol primers are more than adequate.

Keep the 32-20 revolver loads in the 1882 ballistics range, about 900-925 FPS in the short gun and 1250-1300 in the rifle if you plan to swap between the two arms. The Winchester 55 can very safely digest "High Velocity" loads, though those died out by about 1950. If you load them for your rifle, DON'T let them near your wheelgun.

[dubber123]

I never did much fiddling with mine, other than firelapping the one with the rough bore. As Al suggests, get a boolit to fit the throats. I had to take a little front sight off to get POA corrected, but my rough bore specimen finally made it to the 3" range at 50 yds. from the bench, using RCBS's excellent 98 gr. swc. Some of that may be the horrible sights. I have a much nicer one, but haven't shot it much yet. Good luck, it sounds like you have the basis for a good shooter, you'll just have to fight your way through.

[Nobade]

I have one just like that. It has .314" throats, and didn't have any forcing cone at all. Leaded something awful and was quite inaccurate. I used the Brownell's forcing cone cutter to do that part, and load it with #3118 boolits as cast, lubed with Bullshop's NASA, over 20gr. KIK FFFg in Starline cases. More powerful than factory loads, extremely accurate (or at least as good as handguns shot by me can be) and no worries about excessive pressure hurting the gun from smokeless loads. The same ammo works great in my Marlin 1894CL, which is a plus for me.

-Nobade

[9.3X62AL]

Some of the hyphenated Winchester/Colt calibers didn't make the transition to smokeless powder from The Holy Black with the grace that others did. I've tried THB in 32/20, 44/40, and 45/70 rifles, and didn't use the far better KIK or Swiss makes of fuel, but compressed some Goex 3F in the smaller two and 2F in the Big Boomer. 30:1 lead:tin alloy, SPG lube hand-applied. Hijo la, what a boomy smoky blast that was! Use of bullet designs with ample lube capacity will keep you shooting longer, I saw a line of "Big Lube" bullets that would likely work in this venue. Even the Goex powder showed more oomph than factory loads ever put out. Specific to 32/20, some #311008 had enough SPG to maintain good accuracy for 10-12 shots, but a wipe-out was a good plan at Round 10. Of course, a complete washdown of arm and its brass is a requirement soon after firing THB in any case.

Just yesterday I was engaged in resetting my garage for Ammo Production when I came across some Starline brass of 32/20 flavor put up with 120 grain bullets and 100% density of Trail Boss. These will get revolver testing at my first opportunity.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have a Hand Ejector S&W made in 1908 in 32/20. It's proven to be a fairly accurate and useful revolver and now that I have a Marlin 1894 CL in the same calibre, I'll need to work out a load that shoots well in both of 'em.

I concur with the above observations on mainstream brass. Even though the charge holes on my Hand Ejector are fairly tight, brass life with either WW or RP is fairly short even at the lower pressures that I load for this revolver. In my revolver, any cast boolit sized to .312 or .313 shoots pretty well. Remington 1 1/2 primers work well with the small charges of Bullseye or Unique powder.

I enjoy shooting revolvers (any firearm actually) at long range and this revolver will hold military E Type Silhouettes or police B-27 targets double-handed-off-hand (standing) all day long at 100 yards with a little front sight held above the top of the rear sight.

The targets below were shot at 50' and are 12 shot groups.

[joken]

Thank you all for the advise. Ken

[A pause for the COZ]

I have one of those beauties. Mine is no were near as nice as some of these you guys are showing off.
It does have some pitting in the barrel.
But man does it shoot good. That maybe by accident though.
I had been shooting a LEE 100 gr rn that dropped at .312 in some of my other 32's
I wanted at least .313

SO I took softish range scrap lead, cast and powder coated. They come out at .314
The Powder Coating adds .002 to the size.
I have a new 5 cavity 100gr 32-20 mold that drops at .314 so I will shoot them as cast with ALOX TL.

Today as a matter of fact I was shooting some 115gr 32-20 bullets that are store purchased and are hard cast at .313.
Ehhh they did not impress me much and leaded a bit. I got a 1000 of those buggers too.:groner:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/101_9594_zps839cd7d8.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_9587_zps799ce990.jpg

And yes book mark star line.
A month or so ago I picked up 500 32-20 and 500 32H&R brass.
The next time they go in stock I will order 500 more and some 45-70 brass.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-online/all-cases.cfm

In the mean time you can find smaller amounts of Starline 32-20 brass on Gun Broker once in a while too.

[GCBurner]

The bore of my old .32-20 Hand Ejector looks in pretty good shape, I think it's a replacement barrel that hasn't ever been shot with blackpowder. With factory loads, it shoots more of what I would call patterns rather than groups at 25-yards. I haven't slugged the barrel yet, but I think it will be an excellent candidate for casting a boolit to a size that fits properly.

[9.3X62AL]

A LOT of 32/20 revolvers show barrel bulges......it is almost a product characteristic, on account of some smokeless loadings after the switch from The Holy Black not igniting well and stuffing bullets in bores. A following shot created a swell. This is a thing to watch for when shopping for 32/20 revolvers--I've seen more than a dozen with this trait.

Corroded bores can as often be assigned to use of corrosive PRIMING as to the use of black powder in the past, and absence of timely maintenance.

[bedbugbilly]

Interesting thread fellas. I'm in the process of getting set up for 32-20 so all this information is a big help. I have my dies, a member here was kind enough to help me out with some brass and I have an original Winchester mold for the 32-20 as well as a Lee TL314-90-SWC and a Lee 311-100-2R mold. Now I'm on the prowl for a revolver which I have a feeling, once I get going, will multiply just like my vintage 38s did! LOL

Not crashing the OP's post - just wanted to say thanks for the fine information and hope more will post with their thoughts and experiences.

Jim

[leftiye]

FWIW My journey with the 32-20 has lead to the understanding (as Al just said) that regardless of the availability of modern firearms in 32-20 it is not still a modern cartridge. I am blessed nowadays with a plethora of .32 caliber revolvers, and have come to the conclusion that high intensity is not a word to couple with the 32-20 at all. Mainly because the cases die instantly if you do, and secondly because the straight 32s of newer development do it better by far. I'm tempted to relegate the caliber to small game hunting in rifles (it was BTW a rifle caliber first of all) because it shines in that use - the hotter .32s often being too destructive. But in pistols - though I have developed high velocity loads, the .30 carbine, and 327 put it to shame and the .32 H&R outperforms it too - therefore I say it is best viewed as an obsolete cartridge (obsolete doesn't mean not to be used). It doesnt load up worth beans anyway (I know it's been done, just that it ain't worth doing).

[Nobade]

I still maintain that is was designed as a black powder cartridge and that is the way it should be used. The brass lasts forever, the accuracy is good, and the power is roughly the same as factory 32 H&R mag ammo if you use top quality powder. After a lot of frustration trying to get it to work well with smokeless I surrendered and started using it like it is designed to be used, with much better results.

-Nobade

[9.3X62AL]

Leftiye, the 32/20 with #311316 loaded into the 1600-1800 FPS range in a good lever rifle shoots pretty well, and the Starline brass seems to hold up well under such usage. I haven't and won't try such stunt work with W-W or R-P brass......those are handgun-only packaging. You make a good point that the caliber tears hell out of small game when it is run that hard--it does. Tone down Lyman #311008 or #311316 to 1100 FPS and you have a very tractable bunny harvester that is gentle on report and still has the thump to knock a coyote on its natural buttocks with a good hit.

[leftiye]

Al - Plus 1.

Nobade, Agree that smokeless powder and the relatively large case and low pressures (not to mention good data not really being available), are a reloading nightmare. As Al says it isn't too hard to get fairly good rifle loads (1600 and more fps), and I'll add that are safe in an old Savage model 23 even. Elmer's favorite of 10 grains 2400 probly shouldn't be used in anything where you have a doubt though. BTW XMP5744 does some interesting higher velocity for pressure work.