Advice needed Please!

[gcollins]

Howdy Folks,
When I normaly smelt my lead into ingots, my friend comes over with his turkey fryer and his cast iron sause pan and that is the way we do it. i think we waste a lot of propane, and sometimes it is hard for both of us to get toghter.
What I am asking of you guys ( remember I can RIG) I need to come up with a 1 burner burner :mrgreen: When I was a kid (long time ago) there were a lot of duck hunting clubs and most of them had a small cabin or so! I can remember luckily :drinks: to much, that they all had these cast iron stand alone 2 burner propane stoves! I wonder if a person could use a older model coleman camp stove and convert it over to propane? Or should a person look for a small used Gas grill with a stainless burner and weld up about half of the holes, so that you could control where the flame is.
I have a coleman one burner stove that you put coleman fuel in, and pump up the pressure and use, my question is, will it get hot enough to melt lead?
Don't get me wrong the turkey fryer works, but things just keep getting higher and a person has to reduce his cost anyway he can. 15 years ago, when i was shooting register skeet we were shooting a lot practice and then shoots it was costing a lot. After a big practice session, I would go out and pickup the shot shotgun wads if they didn't have a flap shot off, i would use those in my practice loads, and this is the truth I patterned those against new wads, most of the time 98% the pattern would be the same. It's not fun being poor:roll::roll:.

I would be very great full for any and all help, i know that a person has to make sure that you have a propane orfice in the burner, instead of natural gas!!

Have Fun
Greg

[Pepe Ray]

Sounds like we're two of a kind. NOT cheap but frugal.
I used a Coleman 2 burner for about 20 Yrs. As my resources improved I happened on to an 8x10 shack(insulated and wired) that the mill was dumping. Got it set and wired for a dedicated Boolet Barn. About that time our kitchen cook range lost the oven. Seems like you should be able to get more than 20 years out of a major appliance like that! Oh well--moved it to the shop. Re plumbed the tubing to avoid future brainfart disasters, removed the un needed knobs and grates, enlarged most of the flame ports on the primary burner, a 3/4" square of ply wood for the work surface and started casting in my own place.
My only expense was the $800 or so for my wife's new range.
Propane's hotter than natural gas, Coleman fuel's hotter than propane. Electric is OK if 220V NOT 110.
Electric is easier to control temps automatically but now your spending money. I've never found a need for automatic temp control but, a thermometer is very useful.
Whenever you come up with a brainstorm, sleep on it. Haste makes waste.
Good luck,
Pepe Ray

[gcollins]

Pepe Ray,
So due you think that single burner Coleman pump up, will work with my 2 quart cast Iron pot?
I thank you for the advice above!
Greg

[Bret4207]

Yes, it will work. FWIW- there are inexpensive 1, 2 and 3 burner propane stoves avaialble from one of the mail order farm outfits and Northern tool too I think. I just burned my electric hot plate out so I may get one of those.

[mtgrs737]

Check the second hand stores and garage/yard sales for cheap source of coleman type stoves. Also a lot of folks here get dutch ovens and turkey cookers at Harbor Freight , Farm stores, and the big box outdoor stores.

I knew a couple of guys that used to recycle shotgun wads and they where some of the best shots at the trap club! They said they shot fine the second time around. These guys were the "Go To" guys if you wanted to know where to buy componets at the cheapest price.

[gcollins]

Like I said earlier, as long as they don't a flap gone they are fine. I think thursday I will try that one burner coleman, it is only 5" around 8-9" tall and my 2 quart cast Iron sauce pot sets on there fine.
Like everyone else we had a bad Ice storm first of Dec., and Generators and coleman heaters coleman fuel, those little bottle of propane like you use on a torch went sky high! I hope someday those son a$$$$$ get caught on this price goughing, just liuke our gasoline.
They got it so a poor people got to save a penny on everything.
Happy Shooting
and Thanks
Greg

[Pepe Ray]

gcollins:
The single burner should produce enough btu's BUT!!
I would NOT trust it's stability with a pot of lead on it. I would use two or 3 concrete blocks to create a fire box. Shim at the bottom if necessary to put the top above the burner. Set the pot on something strong and stable. A dumped pot of molten lead is NOT something you need. Never underestimate the destructiveness of molten lead, in ANY quantity.
If you need something to span the blocks use an old oven or frig.shelf. Better yet double them up.
Pepe Ray

[Bad Water Bill]

I started smelting with a Coleman single burner in 1966. I used a 3# coffee can. Nothing has changed since but the capacity of the coffee can. You can get a NEW Coleman gas stove at K Mart for under $40.00 Watch for sales on their fuel. Since not all of us can score a half ton at a time look at the advantage of this smaller size. The coffee can holds about 15# of WW at a time, and I have NEVER had one spill as the base of the stove is about the same size as its top and only slightly smaller than the bottom of the coffee can thus keeping things in balance. If you want to use propane think about a 5 gal container and a flex hose. That is 40 one# containers for about 25 to 40 cents each. Cheap enough? Another advantage to this setup is the small amount of space it takes to store , not a small thing if you have lived in the same place for many years and tend to collect things. Yes it is still the same stove. Less than a dollar a year and still going strong. BWB:castmine:

[gcollins]

I bought this cast iron pot for $2.00 (china) it is new big wooden handle, i will make sure it can't turn over, I have enough problems! And you guys are right, I can find one of those coleman campstoves cheap. Which is going to cost the least to run, coleman fuel $4.50 a gallon, or rigging up something that I can hook up a gas grill propane bottle to? Yes I am CHEAP, the less it cost me to do things, the more toys I can have! And most all little boys (52 years young) what more toys!!

You guys are the best!
Thanks for the help, God knows I need a lot of it!
Greg

[MT Gianni]

Coleman fuel will get ya more heat than propane. Look for a newer style that is a dual fuel and run gasoline in it. Gianni

[gcollins]

Thanks MT

[xtimberman]

For smelting WWs into ingots, I've used a pair of Coleman single-burners for decades. When one gets low on fuel, I light the other one and transfer the pot. When the empty one cools off, I re-fuel it to be ready when it's needed.

Ditto 100% what Pepe Ray said about stability of the setup! Smelting is dangerous even without compounding the risk with another potentially hazardous situation!

xtm

[gcollins]

MT, this Coleman i got, looks brand new,how do I find out if it will burn gasoline?
thanks Greg
I looked it up 1962 model, I bet you can't burn gasoline in it?

[carpetman]

If you use unleaded gasoline in a Coleman you wont get as long of life out of your generator as you will using Coleman fuel. Not to worry---what you save in fuel costs using the gasoline will buy several generators. Pepe Ray---I heard it backwards from what you posted---natural gas is hotter than propane.

[felix]

Nope, C-Man! Propane has 10 percent less energy than gasoline, while Methane has 50 percent less than gasoline. Natural gas has about 90 percent or more methane, 20 percent at most of propane or other higher molecular substances than methane. Usually, it is cost effective to strip the higher stuff from the base gas, methane final objective, before the "natural gas" is put into the pipeline. ... felix

If you can get 250 miles on your truck with gasoline, you'd get only 125 miles with methane. If you are going to convert your truck, go to propane. The only advantage to running propane is cleaner combustion, which would multiply your time between oil changes dramatically, if not forever, for the life of your truck. ... felix

[carpetman]

felix---I had a car that would burn propane or gasoline. Mileage with propane was zilch and same with power. I do know the btu rating on stoves will be less with propane than it is with natural gas.

[Pepe Ray]

C-man;
I believe that the reason you see this difference is because the manuf'rs have compromised the burner designs to do double duty. This way the only thing that must be changed is the orifice size. Keeps the price of the equipment lower.
If the burners were to be equally efficient with each gas they would be designed with dis-similar flame ports and primary and secondary air ports. ie, 2 different sets of burners w/each range/heater etc.
If you mess w/enough different equipment, over time you'll note how some are easier to adjust to a good flame than others. Same gas, same air(Oxygen) but different engineering.

Felix; Thanks !! I always had a problem w/chemistry.
Pepe Ray

[MT Gianni]

Per gallon, propane has 91,380 btu per gallon. Nat gas sold by the therm is 100,000 btuft, decatherm =10 therm or 1,000,000 btu. Gasoline runs anywhere from 125,000- 145,000 btu per gallon. Diesel is 160,000-170,000 btu per gal.
Pepe Ray is correct with a range most LP burners are less than nat. gas because of several reasons among them odor, sooting and carbon monoxide. Nat. gas has a chemical formula of CH4, LP gas C3H8 meaning an extra carbon atom to deal with in the burning process.
IME LP and Nat gas in vehicles were a cheaper alternative when both were carburated. You were hit with a major loss of power with both. In fuel injected engines they may claim working success but few have embraced them, even utilities selling gas. Australia was big on Diesel/Nat. gas conversions a few years ago but in North America with the current use of Nat. gas a a clean burning power generation fuel it has been tied to the cost of a bbl of oil for some years now. Gianni

[MT Gianni]

Felix, I reread your post. Lp gas has 2,500 btu per cuft, nat gas is about 1,000 btu per cuft sealevel and 60 degrees. [Boyles and Charles laws]. I am unsure of the btu per cuft of gasoline, but none are sold by the cubic foot. Gianni

[MT Gianni]

MT, this Coleman i got, looks brand new,how do I find out if it will burn gasoline?
thanks Greg
I looked it up 1962 model, I bet you can't burn gasoline in it?

It should say dual fuel on it if the generator is designed for it. If not as has been said it will burn, but it will also burn out generators. G

[GSM]

gcollins:

If you are not averse to it, check Evilbay: Item number: 170196765626
Looks like a plumbers pot.

[gcollins]

Thanks GSM
I just got back from town to buy a gallon of coleman fuel $7.99 not for me!!

[gcollins]

Guys, I know nothing about these, i buy any Coleman Lantern I find when I am garage saleing for a friend of mine (only if they are cheap) so what is a generator on these (look like)
With any luck i am going to try gasoline in it tomorrow, what do you think?
Thanks greg

[gcollins]

I went and looked at that, the shipping was $22.95
at the farm store, they had a cast iron 2 burner stove, that my propane bottle off of my grill will fit right on for $22.95, but they didn't rate the BTU's up very high.
I think I am going to try and find one like mine cheap and burn gasoline in both of them. I think the way they are designed, they would put more heat on the pot instead of my friends turkey fryer, where the flame is going every where?

What do you think?
greg

[waksupi]

Guys, I know nothing about these, i buy any Coleman Lantern I find when I am garage saleing for a friend of mine (only if they are cheap) so what is a generator on these (look like)
With any luck i am going to try gasoline in it tomorrow, what do you think?
Thanks greg

Greg, most sporting goods store carry generators. Fairly inexpensive. When I still lived in a tipi, I used unleaded gas in my coleman. Wasn't quite as bright, but was cheaper, and more available than coleman fuel, where I was living.

[Pepe Ray]

gcollins;
Generators for Colemans
On a multi burner cook stove the gen'tr is a tube that lays across the primary burner, attached to the valve on one end and inserted into the gas manifold that feeds the burners.
On a lantern it is vertical. At the bottom connected to the valve and at top to the burner manifold.
In each case the tube contains a cleaning/throttling wire rod that is loop connected to a crank near the valve. When starting either, the rod is moved into the orifice at the manifold end to restrict the flow of gas until the initial flame preheats the generator to cause the gas to expand and burn cleaner and hotter.
Then the crank is used to withdraw the wire to let the appliance "take off".
A generator will burn out using the proper fuel, eventually. What reaction, using other grades of fuel, causes them to burn out sooner, I do not know. BUT, as has been already stated, generators can be replaced and at the present price of fuel, they may be the WTG.
My 2cents.
Pepe Ray

[TAWILDCATT]

AGRI has burner and 12 quart cast kettle for $79.it seem to be surrounded by sleave.they also have the one and two burner gas stoves.$14 for the cast iron two burner.remember the lead is heavy and you dont want a spill.trust me on this.
cheap is one thing stupid is an entirely different matter.do it right the first time.
:coffee:---:coffee:--[smilie=1: