Saddle Ring? I discovered a use! (well, rediscovered)

[30CalTy]

I've looked at that ring without a moment's thought and have lugged the rifle (Model 1892 SRC 25-20) around a few times. But it hasn't been coming along as much, just because carrying it in hand for 2.5+ hrs isn't appealing.

Been shooting it a lot recently though and I got the idea to glue a fiberoptic strand onto the front sight (from one of the unused pins on my bow--very fine 0.020"--worked great). And then looked at that ring a little. What's it's purpose? How was it used? After reading out that it was basically made to attach a lanyard to, I ran into the basement and started going through boxes

There's this crummy sling I got with my Daisy Avanti pellet rifle. It's pathetic for it's intended use of sling supported positions. Awkward to adjust and attach. It's 2 nylon straps stitched together about 1/3rd the way up their length. Buckles are used to form 2 adjustable loops; a smaller one for the bicep and the bigger one would go to the sling swivel.


the sling (http://www.daisy.com/sites/default/files/field/image/avnti_rifle_853.jpg)



I put one of those keychain carabiners on the small loop and clipped it to the saddle ring (actually the staple since someone cut off the actual ring). I stuck my right arm and head through the big loop. With winter clothes, I used every inch of the big loop (size 42 FWIW). It worked great! The rifle naturally hangs vertically with the butt just a little above the armpit and placed perfectly to come up into action; the muzzle a little below the kneecaps. Or you can pull it more across the front (not good for walking but probably good for something), or pull it to lie on your back when you climb trees. There's just enough room to be able shoot from either side. Had my hands free to warm them up, pee, send a text, or to just take a break from carrying it. It also removes all the awkwardness unloading since the rifle is supported while having the left hand free to grab the ejected rounds.

Don't know why I hadn't tried this earlier.


I have a big coil of webbing from a canoe seat project; tempted to make another one, but with bullet loops! Who knows what kind of pinch you may run into when you've got the 25WCF. (I don't have any leather under 6oz, otherwise, I'd do it up right!)

[TXGunNut]

Good job, sounds like a handy addition. Pretty sure the Cavalry used something similar but can't recall seeing any actual examples of a single point sling for the SRC. I've seen them on MSR's a time or two, funny how a good idea comes back after a hundred years or so.

[bob208]

the proper term is sling ring not saddle ring. so that should shed some light on how it was used. it was a leather bandoleer type strap that had a roller snap on it. that hooked to the ring. the idea was if while mounted you dropped your carbine for what ever reason you did not lose your weapon and have to dismount to look for it. look at pictures of civil war Calvary and you will see them in use.

[Lucky Joe]

Found this picture.
http://www.truewestmagazine.com/jcontent/images/stories/Aug-2007/aug07-rifle-packin-slideshow/carbine-sling.jpg

[Rustyleee]

There used to be a member here named Junior that had a website www.castbullet.com who sold a sling for those saddle rings.

[BruceB]

It is indeed a "SLING RING".

Ever tried to use a rifle that is tied to a saddle?

I've no idea where this change to "saddle ring" came about.... maybe from somebody's advertising descriptions?

[nagantguy]

Now it makes sense! I've lugged my "saddle ring" carbine around northern MI swamps and hills fer years never could figure out a use for the 40 pound saddle tied to that ring that I drug all over Gods green earth! That would also explain a lot of the strange looks I was getting in the deer woods as well! I was thinking of switching to a smaller lighter English saddle but a sling makes a lot more sense!!!!

[Uncle Grinch]

Now it makes sense! I've lugged my "saddle ring" carbine around northern MI swamps and hills fer years never could figure out a use for the 40 pound saddle tied to that ring that I drug all over Gods green earth! That would also explain a lot of the strange looks I was getting in the deer woods as well! I was thinking of switching to a smaller lighter English saddle but a sling makes a lot more sense!!!!

nows that's funny!

[30CalTy]

Heheh, got a laugh out of that!

[Rodfac]

nagantguy...VERY funny...hellofa mental image you've drawn there.

30Cal...very interesting...any luck finding a ring for the carbine? BTW: N is working with horses today...leafy branch training...1/2" snow out so Mimi and I are set for a walk-about, suitably armed of course. Dad

[LtFrankDrebbin]

"Saddle ring carbine" does sound a little better than "sling ring carbine", does it not?

[pietro]

It is indeed a "SLING RING".

Ever tried to use a rifle that is tied to a saddle?

I've no idea where this change to "saddle ring" came about.... maybe from somebody's advertising descriptions ?




They are called "saddle rings" because, back in the day, they were the means to attach a carbine to a horse's saddle with a long enough sling to use the rifle - So, Winchester called the carbines so made "Saddle Ring Carbine" (as in "Winchester Model 94SRC" ).



.

[GoodOlBoy]

http://www.castbullet.com/srsling.htm

Yep always wanted one of his slings, never got around to it when I had the money, and now I don't.... It's a shame. I always heard good things about his slings.

As for saddle ring the ring was actually used with a short length of leather thong to keep the carbine from bouncing out of a scabbard FYI. Anybody who has ever given a new "bruise" to a brush gun riding a gut bustin' mule through west Texas scrub brush has either used it for such, or stuffed the carbine down deep into a rifle scabbard one of the two. On the one's made to be used with a sling the ring wasn't usually single attached at a fixed point, but rather had a short bar that it could slide up and down, OR it had multiple rings attached one to the other. The difference is a saddle ring is meant to hold a rifle or carbine still. A sling ring is meant to be an attachment point that allows you to move it around where you need it.

128700

Anyway there is nothing to say a saddle ring can't be used for a sling, and vice versa. BUT a saddle ring was not really meant to be there to sling a rifle or carbine FROM a saddle. It was meant to be used to lash it into a scabbard or other supported configuration.

Enjoy

GoodOlBoy

[30CalTy]

nagantguy...VERY funny...hellofa mental image you've drawn there.

30Cal...very interesting...any luck finding a ring for the carbine? BTW: N is working with horses today...leafy branch training...1/2" snow out so Mimi and I are set for a walk-about, suitably armed of course. Dad

I didn't look too hard... What I have works fine, is easy to clip into with heavy gloves, and doesn't clink around, so I'm going to stick with it. Waiting for a warmer weekend day so I can cast some more 257420's.

[doc1876]

in the war of 1812- the 1848, the carbine was indeed attached to the saddle. It was a n improvement in carrying on horse. it was also a very scary attachment.
In the 1850s the accepted way of carrying it on the carbine sling swivel that you see on that trooper became the military requirement. The sling was on the cavalryman, as in the above photo, and the barrel was supposed to be in the "Carbine Ring" that was attached top the saddle near the calf or the trooper. NEVER DO THIS!! If you get tossed, the carbine will travel with you, helping you to survive any attach from the "enemy", however the ring on the saddle will keep the barrel attached to the horse, and the wreck that will ensue is truly a thing to see.
when dismounting, the carbine is thrown over the left shoulder, and hanging off of your back, so you can dismount without getting hung up in it. there is an art to this, and when it is accomplished, you will never figure out how you ever lived without it.
You may purchase the slings and sling swivels from most Civil War supplier, and I recommend Fall Creek Sutler.

http://www.fcsutler.com/fcleather.asp

[doc1876]

This photo of a drawing by Steffen dated 1833 shows the rifle in the "boot", and then attached to saddle for mounting and dismounting. The sling is in the view, and would be attached if leaving the horse, and taking the rifle with him

The other is a trooper at the gallop with his attached circa 1863

[OverMax]

Hooray for the GoodOLBoy. He's spot on with his comment.

[3006mv]

um well there are hundreds of single point slings available these days for that black rifle crowd.

[M-Tecs]

Posts 3 & 10 explain it very well http://www.shootersforum.com/leverguns-their-cartridges-general/4377-saddle-ring-carbines.html

Post 10 "The saddle ring carbine was developed shortly before the Civil War. All cavalry units were issued carbines with this ring. A wide leather sling was slung over the shoulder. a spring loaded snap ring on this strap attached it to the carbine.

Thus the carbine was literally hanging, muzzle down, from the trooper's shoulder. Often issued was a small leather cylindrical boot that attached to a "D" ring on the McClellan saddle. The cavalryman could thrust the muzzle of the carbine through this ring and thus relieve the weight of the carbine from his shoulder as he rode.

In looking at original Civil War carbines I have often seen a semi-curicular wear pattern on the buttstock. The snap ring would wear against the stock, rubbing back and forth as the horse walked, eventually creating a grooved indentation in the wood. This of course is strong indication that the carbine in question had seen saw a lot of "in the saddle" use and has been there and seen action. My great-grandfather, a Union cavalryman, used a carbine sling during the Atlanta campaign - first with a Cosmopolitan carbine, then later with the Burnside, and finally, finishing the war using a Spencer.

Original Carbine slings are expensive. However, reproductions at reasonable cost are available, and can be used with modern carbines that have the ring on the left side of the receiver. The carbine sling was used up until WWI. Later slings were slightly less in width than the C.W. model and had smaller snap rings. The last U.S. Cavalry arm to have a carbine ring was the 1899 Krag Carbine. "

I have limited firsthand knowledge on this. My Dad was a member of a 7th Cavalry reenactment group in the early 70's. They had original training and drill manuals. Most of their leather equipment was original. As a kid is spent a lot of hours in working on softening 100 old leather. If they couldn't restore it do to dry rot they copied it from originals.

[mark2935]

Hi TY, assuming you are right-handed, try this: weak side sling. Put your head and LEFT arm through the sling. This will keep the weapon on your left side. Works great if you also carry a handgun on your right hip. Makes it easy to transition from one gun to the other. Practice from both sides to see which works best. Don't let the weapon hang from the center of your body as you might get smacked in the "boy berries". Sling to one side or the other.


Mark2935