Wrinkled boolits -- stumped as to why

[practical_man]

I recently purchased two Lee molds and they've got me stumped. They seem to cast well filled out bullets, except the noses are all wrinkled up.

Here's what I did:
- took molds out of the box and cleaned with mineral spirits. A good scrubbing with soft toothbrush and mineral spirits.
- A good scrubbing with brake cleaner.
- Checked for proper venting and deepended some of the vent lines.

Fired up the bottom pour Lyman pot. Put the molds on top to heat up.

Cast boolits. Nice square lube groove and complete fill out -- except those pesky wrinkles around the nose of the boolit.

Increased pot temp to max. Got nice frosty boolits with square lube groves and drive bands -- and wrinkled noses.

Cleaned 'em again. No change the the outcome.

Cast a few with my iron RCBS and Lyman molds. No problems -- and no wrinkled noses.

Cast a few more with the Lee's -- more pesky wrinkled noses.

I tried a few with the ladel -- same result. Wrinkled noses, in a random pattern.

I am completely stumped by this. Any ideas on how to get those aluminum molds to work properly?

Thanks.

[R.M.]

Probably the next thing I would do is smoke the cavities. I find it helps. You're on the right track. Keep at it. It'll come.

[38 Super Auto]

It sounds like mould venting to me. Did you gently scribe all of the vent lines on the mold face over the entire surface?

Wrinkled noses result from the alloy not completely filling in the cavity before the alloy starts to solidify. Since you are running your pot hot and you pre-heated your mold, I suspect the mold venting - the mold cavity does not vent out all the air as alloy is added, so there are some voids where air was trapped.

Sometimes, this problem can be corrected by adding tin: it lowers the melting point of the alloy, which allows air to more completely escape before the alloy solidifies. This yields fewer voids.

The last few Lee molds I bought required a lot of work to get them to vent correctly. I had scribe and repeat on each mold 2 or 3 times before they started dropping good bullets.

If you are using mold release, make sure there is no overspray on the mold faces. I have seen that mold release will sometimes block the vent lines on Lee moulds.

You said your Lymans and RCBS molds give you better results. These steel molds have better vent line design.

When you buy a Lee mold, you spend less up front, but frequently have to do some tune-up to get them yielding great results.

Check the Lee-menting techniques in the sticky post. They work.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Sometimes I had to either add a little tin to prevent those wrinkles or open up the sprue plate hole(s) and then lap smooth.

I'm outa "wrinkle be gone" just now or.....BvT

[practical_man]

Thanks for the great ideas.

I did the lee menting bit -- looks like I'll do it again. This time I'll try to make the lee vent lines look like the lyman. A little scribing exercise will give me something to do on a cold afternoon.

I'll try adding more tin to the melt.

Standing by for more wisdom from the cast...

thanks to all.

[kawalekm]

Hi Practical
One other thing I can suggest is you light the mold on fire while washing. I clean my molds in acetone and the last thing I do before preheating is light the wet mold on fire. The burning liquid might drive out the last traces of oil that you might not be getting out by just brushing. Make sure you securely cap your acetone (or whatever) bottle before lighting up. Guess how I learned that tip?
Michael

[Junior1942]

Mineral spirits? Did you put mineral oil in your mold cavities? If so, clean it out!

[KYCaster]

Junior's right...mineral spirits doesn't evaporate completely...same with some of the brake cleaners. Make sure the your solvent doesn't leave ANY residue.

Sounds like you need to clean them again. Try acetone or MEK(clear PVC pipe primer).

Jerry

[bobthewelder]

I still get wrinkled bullets with my 6 banger. I have been looaned a two banger and it works perfectly every time. The only time the six cavity casts good sharp boolits is when it is too hot. If I put it on my hotplate and crank it up it casts perfect frosty boolits, turn the hotplate down and get shiny boolits with rounded off shoulders of inconsistant size and wrinkles. I guess I will have to live with frosty boolits.

[practical_man]

thanks.

acetone is up for the next round of cleaning. I should have thought of it the first time.

i'll also try the hotplate trick with the aluminum molds. WOn't get to it till later in the week.

Thanks for the help

[Blammer]

HEAT! more heat!

[454PB]

Back when I used to lube my Lee moulds, they would eventually get clogged up with carbonized crud. This migrates into the venting, and causes problems. I've since stopped lubing them, and used Gun Scrubber and a brass brush to clean the vent lines. One of the ones that is slightly larger than a tooth brush works great, and won't damage the aluminum. I give them a light brushing every thousand casts or so, and never have any venting trouble.

[chevyiron420]

i had alot of problems with nose wrinkles with all my lee molds, untill i realized they were not wrinkles, but splashes. i slowed down the pour, esp. in the first bit, and kept the mold about a quarter inch or less from the spout and it got better.-phil:castmine:

[Bret4207]

I still get wrinkled bullets with my 6 banger. I have been looaned a two banger and it works perfectly every time. The only time the six cavity casts good sharp boolits is when it is too hot. If I put it on my hotplate and crank it up it casts perfect frosty boolits, turn the hotplate down and get shiny boolits with rounded off shoulders of inconsistant size and wrinkles. I guess I will have to live with frosty boolits.

If the boolit is well formed and properly filled out then I'm happy with frosty. If the appearance bothers you give the loaded round a swipe with 4/0 steel wool. That shines them up a bit.

[KCSO]

It is a little known fact that lead ages, old lead will cause wrinkled bullets. Please dispose of the old lead in an environmentally safe manner by shipping it all to me.

If you coat a bullet with JB's bore paste and rotate it in the mould fo a gentle lapping that will take all the burrs and ALL impurities from the mould. Then smoke and cast and see if the wrinkles don't dissappear.

[redbear705]

I dont know whats in it but I use Ronsons lighter fluid to clean my molds....cuts the crud and dries quickly.

Also, what does your mold sit on while casting?

I use a piece of wood under my mold to keep it up to temp for full fill-out without over heating the lead in the pot.

[truckmsl]

I had the same problem with a new Lee 6 cavity. It just would not cast good bullets until I put it in an ultrasonic cleaner for an hour. Bingo - perfect bullets now, just like my other 6 bangers. this one was by far more difficult to clean than others before it. Prior to the ultrasonics, I cleaned it with hot soapy water and tooth brush, then brake cleaner, then alcohol, then comet and a brush - nothing worked. Good luck!

[JIMinPHX]

I dont know whats in it but I use Ronsons lighter fluid to clean my molds....cuts the crud and dries quickly.



That would be naphtha.

[sundog]

MEK is the dandiest metal cleaner around, if you can find it.

[Leftoverdj]

It's simple if you don't insist on screwing it up. Boil half an hour in soapy water and rinse.

If for utterly unfathomable reasons, you insist on contaminating the mould you just cleaned, you will get wrinkled bullets and deserve them.

[PatMarlin]

It's simple if you don't insist on screwing it up. Boil half an hour in soapy water and rinse.

That be the WF PatMarlin method.. :drinks:

[rvpilot76]

MEK is the dandiest metal cleaner around, if you can find it.

Most ACE hardware stores have it in one-gallon cans.

Kevin

[whisler]

Most Home Depot stores have MEK in quart cans.

[nvbirdman]

I recently got a new Lee mould. I cleaned it, smoked it, and had to throw back the first forty boolits. It just takes a while to burn off the oil.

[KYCaster]

MEK is the dandiest metal cleaner around, if you can find it.



PVC pipe primer....get the clear variety, not the one with purple dye in it.

Jerry

[practical_man]

I determined that the problem was most likely venting.

I have 3 lee molds now. Here's what I did.

Mold #1 -- .312-185. Cleaned with acetone. Deepened Lee vent lines. Results -- still casts wrinkled boolits.

Mold #2 -- .429-200. Cleaned with acetone. Scribed 4 horizontal vent lines spaced 1/8" apart at the TOP of the mold. Scribed vertical vent lines between cavities. Result. Boolits not perfect, but much better.

Mold #3 -- 6.5 mm. Cleaned with acetone. Scribed 4 horizontal vent lines spaced 1/8" apart at the BOTTOM of the mold (near bullet nose). Scribed vertial vent lines between cavities. Result: perfect boolits.

Test casting was done at the highest temp my "vintage" Lyman pot would provide. Molds were lubed with Bull Plate (which seems to have cut down the galling quite a bit).

Next steps: Lee-menting part II. Polish the cavities with boolits embedded with Bon Ami (cause that's what's in the cabinet). Rescribe vent lines on Mold #1 and #2 to match Mold #3. Hopefully that will have solve my Lee mold problem.

Thanks for all your suggestions. It pointed me in the right direction.

[WyrTwister]

I recently purchased two Lee molds and they've got me stumped. They seem to cast well filled out bullets, except the noses are all wrinkled up.

Here's what I did:
- took molds out of the box and cleaned with mineral spirits. A good scrubbing with soft toothbrush and mineral spirits.
- A good scrubbing with brake cleaner.
- Checked for proper venting and deepended some of the vent lines.

Fired up the bottom pour Lyman pot. Put the molds on top to heat up.

Cast boolits. Nice square lube groove and complete fill out -- except those pesky wrinkles around the nose of the boolit.

Increased pot temp to max. Got nice frosty boolits with square lube groves and drive bands -- and wrinkled noses.

Cleaned 'em again. No change the the outcome.

Cast a few with my iron RCBS and Lyman molds. No problems -- and no wrinkled noses.

Cast a few more with the Lee's -- more pesky wrinkled noses.

I tried a few with the ladel -- same result. Wrinkled noses, in a random pattern.

I am completely stumped by this. Any ideas on how to get those aluminum molds to work properly?

Thanks.


Never had that problem , after I get the mold and lead hot . I usually run my Lee bottom pour pot as hot as it will go .

I no longer smoke the molds . I clean them with an old tooth brush , tooth paste ( mild abrasive & cleaner ) and warm water .

Is the pot pouring slow ?

God bless
Wyr

[idahoron]

I was thinking the same thing the pot was pouring slow. Another thing that got me when I was having trouble was not enough tin. Also don't touch in inside of the mould. The oil from fingers can also cause a problem.
If my lead or mould gets too hot I get bullets that are lighter than the target weight. Ron

[yodar]

It is a little known fact that lead ages, old lead will cause wrinkled bullets. Please dispose of the old lead in an environmentally safe manner by shipping it all to me.

If you coat a bullet with JB's bore paste and rotate it in the mould fo a gentle lapping that will take all the burrs and ALL impurities from the mould. Then smoke and cast and see if the wrinkles don't dissappear.


Naaaahhhh!

You need some tin for mould fillout. Tin acts as like a surfactant to reduce surface tension on the alloy

I use .05% tin from solder 4 oz 67/33 solder per 10 pound pot

yodar