Got A Flat Top .44 Special

[Wolfgang]

Hello All,

I posted a while back that I was going to get .44 special Ruger but I was not sure as to if I wanted the standard plow handle grip or the Bisley style. As it turned out I ended up with my brother's! I got a chance to handle a Bisley model at a show and didn't really take to it all that well. Today we met at a friend of mines small gun shop and the brand new Colt New Frontier .44 Special in the case was calling to both of us. Must of called out a bit louder to him because he ponied up for the sizable chunk that it cost to take it home.:smile: He told me he didn't need two and wanted to give me the Ruger but I bought it from him instead to at least take some of the sting out of the cost of the Colt. This one is the 5 1/2 inch barrel and the standard grip and he bought it new in 2010. I would be surprised if it has had fifty rounds through it and I probably shot half of those! Now it's time to look for a set of wooden grips as I am not a huge fan of the plastic originals. I may look at dropping in a different hammer as well to give it more of the Bisley style profile. I did like the way it looked and felt when handled the other one. At any rate, when the weather breaks a little here in sunny Ohio, I will take it out back and sling some 429421's through it and see if it still shoots or if those fifty or so rounds over the last five years has worn it out!

Best to all,

Wolfgang

[ejcrist]

You'll like the Ruger a lot. I have the 5 1/2" barrel and love it. I replaced my grips with a set of rosewood grips I got from the Ruger shop that have the medallions. Here's the link in case you haven't been there http://shopruger.com/Ruger-New-Vaquero-Smooth-Rosewood-Grips/productinfo/19871/. Don't know if you know or not, but be sure to get the panels for a New Model Vaquero and not New Model BH. I got the BH grips at first and they were way off so I dug a little deeper and found out I got the wrong ones. Mine is pretty accurate with the 429421; I'm taking her javelina hunting next month and hope to get within 75 yards or less. Good luck with your new wheelgun.

Gene

[Slow Elk 45/70]

There are dogs, and then their are LUCKY dogs.....I think you and your brother will be happy[smilie=1:

[DougGuy]

Check the cylinder throats on it, see if they are even and see if your boolit will go through the throat from the front..

[WALLNUTT]

A SBH hammer will drop right in giving you a almost Bisley hammer. Get a Wolfe 30oz trigger spring while you're at it,about 8 bucks. You can make some pretty nice wood grips yourself, start with 1/2in thick wood. They,re great revolvers.I've put about 3K rounds through mine and can't tell it's been fired.

[Wolfgang]

Thanks for the replies. I will check out the grips as well as the hammer soon. I've got to place an order through Wolff gunsprings for a few other things anyway so I will include a shooters pak for the new Ruger as well. My brother has waited almost forty years to pick up a SAA and I'm glad he got it. I really liked the Colt too but he has wanted one for so long that even though I could have sprung for it I wouldn't have as long as he was interested. My friend at the gunshop had two, the New Frontier that my brother ended up with and a TALO addition that was a true SAA with fixed sights. The adjustable sighted version is more user friendly so that's what he decided on. I think I will have more fun with the Ruger anyway since I won't be so worried about banging it up that I wouldn't shoot it. My brother is really kind to all of his firearms but on the other hand I have no doubt that the Colt will be shot. We are both looking forward to some decent weather so we can play and the two specials will be out back making the steel ring soon I hope.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I just got my 4-5/8" Bisley FT a week to 10 days ago. I love it, but my rear sight pin and trigger pin are walking out. Also, the Rosewood grips don't fit and have chatter markes on the top right panel. I'm going to look it over closer for any other issues and give Ruger a call Monday. Otherwise I like it. It seems pretty accurate, but have only fired loads made for another gun in it. Still have to measure the throats on this one.

Hope to get around to that this afternoon along with loading some of my heavy Keith bullets.

[44 Special]

... but my rear sight pin and trigger pin are walking out.

That rear sight pin walks out on just about every Ruger I own.

[shoot-n-lead]

That rear sight pin walks out on just about every Ruger I own.

X 2

Just bend it a little and bump it back in...no more issues.

[EDK]

A SUPER BLACK HAWK hammer is a drop-in...and BROWNELLS has them in stock for $29.99 plus shipping. They have HUNTER grip frames in stock also...For guys who have big hands like I do. I've set up a bunch of Original Size VAQUEROS in 357 and 44 with SBH hammers and Hunter grip frames. I like it as much as a BISLEY.

Hey MMA10MM: That mold you designed has worked well for me. Toss-up between it and Blammer's 429352 in revolvers for 25 yard targets.

[Vulcan Bob]

Oh, you are going to like that one! I have three of em and they all shoot the 429421 sized to .430" very well.

[Dale53]

Wolfgang;
Congratulations! You have a FINE revolver. I have a blued 5½" and a SS Talo 4 5/8". They are one of the best revolvers Ruger has ever produced.

Here's mine:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/Texas%20Ranger%20and%20Ruger%20Flattop%20Selects-5_1600x1067.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/Texas%20Ranger%20and%20Ruger%20Flattop%20Selects-5_1600x1067.jpg.html)

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QPachmaryRuger50th44MagSelects-0021.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/QPachmaryRuger50th44MagSelects-0021.jpg.html)

A really good field load is the so-called Skeeter load (7.5 grs. of Unique behind a 250 gr. Keith bullet).

Dale53

[runfiverun]

I think Dale took a pic of my revolvers :lol:
I swapped the cylinders so the guns look cooler now, and I only use 7.2 grs under the 241.
but hey I gotta adjust something for the altitude.

[rintinglen]

I have the 4 5/8 blue version, and it is one of my favorite revolvers. It is the most accurate 44 Special I have ever owned and if you have Red Dot or Unique and some 429=421's, you've got the makings for some wonderfully good shooting loads. I wish your brother luck--the Colt 44 Special SAA I had was a pretty poor performer.
129704

[Crash_Corrigan]

I sprang for one of the LipseySpecials in .44 Spcl. with a 5 1/2 bbl on a Bisley frame. Very nice gun. However I need to firelap the barrel as it was squoze down some when it was screwed into the frame. A tight patch hangs up pretty good there and once past goes easily to the forcing cone etc.. I also have 4 other Ruger single actions to play with.

[MakeMineA10mm]

That rear sight pin walks out on just about every Ruger I own.


X 2

Just bend it a little and bump it back in...no more issues.

Now that's just dang sad that this would be THAT common of a "problem" and the manufacturer doesn't know it and do something about it.



A SUPER BLACK HAWK hammer is a drop-in...and BROWNELLS has them in stock for $29.99 plus shipping. They have HUNTER grip frames in stock also...For guys who have big hands like I do. I've set up a bunch of Original Size VAQUEROS in 357 and 44 with SBH hammers and Hunter grip frames. I like it as much as a BISLEY.

Hey MMA10MM: That mold you designed has worked well for me. Toss-up between it and Blammer's 429352 in revolvers for 25 yard targets.

EDK - Glad you like it. Have you tried it out any further? I've loaded it in the 44 Magnum with some W231 light loads, and found that it doesn't hold up well at long range, but when I load it hotter with AA#9 or 2400 to around 1200, I can hit steel at longer range. I still need to put it on paper at longer range.

[Wolfgang]

I would like to find out how much I like the thing but mother nature has other plans. We just got another 5-6 inches of snow dropped on us last night and coupled with the 25-30 mph winds I now have another mess to clean up. Normally I can walk out my back door and shoot at my range targets but right now I can't even open my back door! The dogs have to weave their way in and out of snow drifts to go do their business but they have a ball in this stuff. Oh well, gives me time to put up a few rounds of .44 special ammo with varying components I guess. rintinglen, I do have some Red Dot which I have never used before as well as Unique and assorted other suitable powders so I hope to find one or two loads that the gun likes. I will probably measure the cylinder throats as DougGuy mentioned to get a feel for how tight they are. I sure hope that my brothers Colt doesn't turn out to be a dog. He has waited so long to get it I sure don't want him to be disappointed. EDK, I checked Brownells and couldn't find the SBH hammers. All I saw were what appeared to be the standard Ruger hammers. Maybe I will give them a call and find out, could be just the picture they are showing is the wrong one. On a side note, this retirement thing is going to take some getting used to...seems I have more to do now than when I was running to work each day and carrying a gun for a living. Now instead of driving a cruiser around, I'm making breakfast and getting the little guy off to school prior to getting busy with my other housewife chores! I think I like it! At least I will get to spend a lot more time with the last bird in the nest than I did with the other kids.:)

[MakeMineA10mm]

I got about a dozen rounds of 15.0grs of AA#9 loaded with my 267gr Hvy. Keith and another 6-7 with 15.5grs of Alliant 2400. I'm a little nervous I should have dropped back another .5gr due to the new Alliant version of 2400 burning a little faster than the old Hercules version, but we'll see. Even though I'm not excited about loading over 22,000psi in this medium-frame Ruger, I'm guessing I'm still below 25,000 with that extra .5grs. It's only a cylinder-full of ammo. The chronograph will tell the story.

I must say, I'm very happy with that Hvy. Keith mould. It is just the right amount of out-of-case length to fit in the Ruger (SAA-length) cylinder in 44 Spl. brass, and it fits fine in S&W N-frame cylinders in Mag. brass. Can't wait for some nice weather. (We got a little snow today, Wolfgang. About an inch. It's supposed to be gone in a few days with some warmer temps and rain coming.)

[MakeMineA10mm]

In another thread about this topic, Dale53 and Larry-in-MT posted there was an article in Handloader 260 about the Ruger Lipsey 44 Specials and their strength/level of handloads they can handle. I get the yearly DVDs from Wolfe and went to the shelf and broke out the 2009 one and pulled up the article. In it is an interesting quote from Brian Pearce:

"They (Ruger New Model Blackhawk 44 Specials) are constructed of modern chrome-moly 4140 steel, which usually has a Rockwell Hardness of between 36 and 38. In carefully measuring chamber wall thickness and in having some knowledge of the breaking point of this frame and cylinder, it will safely digest a steady diet of handloads that generate up to 25,000 psi, or what I termed Category Three handloads as presented in previous editions of Handloader Magazine."

That's pretty definitive. I also like that Pearce has some advanced knowledge of "the breaking point of this frame and cylinder." If Pearce says that, I will take that to the bank.

[Wolfgang]

MMA10,

I have no doubt that the flat top is stronger than it needs to be for average 44 special loads. I have a few of Brian's articles on the 44 special around here someplace. I stepped out the other day and popped off a few rounds that I had sitting around for the smaller 44's (Bulldog/431) out of the flat top and they were powder puffs. That being said, I don't really see any need to get too hot with them either seeing as I have several 44 mags sitting sitting around for those duties. I will more than likely load up to some of them to about 1000-1100 fps range just to get an idea of the recoil and how it shoots but the vast majority of loads it will see will be in the 750-950 fps range. I just want to ring steel and knock the snot out of various things around here with big heavy bullets slipping along at a modest pace. May even let it tag along next deer season and for that purpose I might step up the horsepower a bit although I'm not too sure it needs to be. My last deer, the 2013 season, this past season was a bust, I had no time to get in any practice with any of my big boomers and I really did not want to go back to a shotgun so I took the only thing I had shot a lot...my Springfield 1911-A1 which I carried as a duty pistol. When the time came, at about 40 yards, a 230gr. "J" word HP at about 850 fps blew on though a fair sized doe which was quartering away from me. In one side out the other and about ten steps later down and out. Kind of proved to me that I didn't need all that much horsepower to down a whitetail. The extra is nice when you want to stretch the distance out a bit though so I may pump a few up for that purpose. :-P

[MakeMineA10mm]

Upon going back and re-reading a couple articles on the 44 Spl., I noted that the 8.0grs of Power Pistol with the 250gr Keith bullet (RCBS, Lyman, H&G, etc.) is under 15,500psi and gives about 1000fps. Quite an impressive load. Definitely one of those "THE LOAD" combinations which have been identified in several calibers, IMO.

95%+ of the time, I will be shooting 6.0grs of W231 with a 225gr RNFP, which is almost identical to a 45ACP load's power. It will be the range, small game, self-defense (with a HP added) load. The other 5% or less, I will have some of my 267gr Hvy. Keith SWCs loaded with an 1100-1200fps load, probably 2400 or AA#9.

I think the point of the information is just to know with some certainty what the limits are with these pistols. It's good to know exactly where you are at and that you are within the boundaries...

[Wolfgang]

Thanks for that information. I may have to seek out some Power Pistol and give that a try. Hopefully I will be able to locate some but getting powders is still a little hit and miss around here. I would agree that it is good to know the limits and I for one like to have a little "fudge factor" so I tend not to push them too much. I have to say that so far in handling the flat top I am really liking the size of the gun. I am day dreaming of warmer weather and long walks around the woods with it as a traveling companion. For right now I have to be content in assembling different loads to try and making the gun mine (different grips/trigger job) We just got smacked in the chops again with another winter storm and today our high temperature was 11 degrees.

[doc1876]

There are some really good loads with IMR4227, until then, take a primed case, stick it in paraffin wax, & go to the basement!! Use care, it can penetrate a car door

[Wolfgang]

doc1876,

I was actually going to take a look at 4227. I have about half of can of the old IMR 4227 in the metal can as well as about two pounds of the newer H4227. I was using the newer stuff in my 1873 SAA 45 colt clone made by Uberti and found a load with the H4227 that it it liked a lot. Got any pet loads using 200-250gr. bullets that you care to share? I have another 44 caliber mould, Lyman 429215, coming along with two more in 357 caliber that I will have to add to the already too many that I have now! Sometimes I have to wonder if my hobby is shooting or casting the bullets to shoot! Chicken and egg sort of thing I guess and since I enjoy doing both I guess it doesn't matter. When my shop is finished, read this coming spring, I will have an area set up dedicated to nothing but casting. Hopefully my FFL will be here as well so that I can get the gunsmithing business up and running legitimately. I already have more on my plate than I care to having just retired but it keeps me busy at least!

[doc1876]

my Ruger flattop loves 13g to 20 g. 20 is hard on the hand but both Hold less than 4 inches off hand at 30 feet

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'll second the 4227. I've used it a lot in 44 Mag, but not in Special so far. It's a "gentle" powder, because you can't get enough in a 44 magnum case to make an overload. I think there are some loads listed in Pearce's articles.

Those wax loads can be powerful. My mentor taught me to drill out a 357 primer pocket to take a 209 primer and then we pressed the case mouth into a sheet of 3/16"-1/4" thick beeswax. We filled soda cans with water and shot them. We always got pretty wet...

[Nueces]

Say, MMa10MM, for one's shop trick library, would you please tell how you prepare cases for use with the 209?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Say, MMa10MM, for one's shop trick library, would you please tell how you prepare cases for use with the 209?

Sure, Nueces! You're asking me to go back a-ways, like a couple-three decades... :)

- First, clean, size, and deprime your cases.
- Next, we chucked the case in the lathe with 3-jaw chuck.
- The hard part, as I remember was finding a close drill diameter. I think it was metric or a letter bit. (Mic a 209 to find the diameter. It's really close to 6mm, IIRC.)
- We put the drill in the lathe and just bored straight through the old primer pocket and flashhole (makes a straight tunnel through the case head).
- I seem to recall, we used some sandpaper or a stone to both clean up the hole and widen it a couple thousandths.
- Last, do a new set-up with a 5/16" bit and cut a small shelf just deep enough to give the flange on the primer base a place to catch. (This is what sets the seating depth for the primer. It has to be just right so no high primers and not too deep, or you'll get light primer hits.). We occasionally had primers which just wouldn't fit right.

We also had some mis-fires until we increased tension on the hammer spring. (We shot S&Ws.)

We only did a few dozen cases. Bored the hole first, then cleaned it up and slightly enlarged it. We did these two operations on all the cases. Then, switch to the 5/16" and do that operation on all the cases. Of course, they must never be loaded with regular loads again. After we used these over a summer, we crushed them shut with pliers and threw them in the recycle bucket.

[Nueces]

Sure, Nueces! You're asking me to go back a-ways, like a couple-three decades... :)

Thank you, Sir! That's quite straightforward and I'm set up for it. Sure would be nice to have a 209 pocket uniformer.

[MakeMineA10mm]

No problem! One other thing -- Make sure the hole ends up a couple thousandths smaller than the primer. That friction keeps the primers from falling out the back of the case, just as the small shelf for the flange keeps it from going too deep.

[Thumbcocker]

Big + 1 on 8.0 of Power pistol and an Elmer boolit. I just got an accurate molds 190 grn. button nose wadcutter that really likes red dot. More testing to do this summer.