Results With Dutch's C434-210-RF

[VTDW]

You just ain't gonna believe this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/vtdw1/RELOADING/HPIM0210.jpg


I worked the loads today at the range and there is a huge accuracy and speed potential with my 200 gr, my alloy, Fed 210M primers and the VV N-120 powder out of the old .444T. I chronied the 57.5 grain loads at 2,956 fps and 2,949 fps. And that is not max!!

Loads in the 50.2 gr range, 53 gr range, 55.5 gr range and 56.5 gr range look very, very promising. I should have shot those 57.5 grain loads for accuracy but decided to just shoot thru the chrony as the powder and boolit combo is going to be great. NO LEADING!!!!! Yet[smilie=1:

Dave

[Lloyd Smale]

you need to find you a golfer town!!

[725]

or even a gopher town.
725

[Dutch4122]

[smilie=w:

Now that's what I've been waiting to hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to find out what this boolit will do in the 1/38" twist of my Marlin 1894SS when the weather improves this Spring/Summer.

BTW, Scrounger is the one who deserves a lot of credit for this boolit. It was originally his idea to try a 200-210 grn boolit in the 1/38" twist barrels.

Thanks for posting the results, Dave.

[VTDW]

My .444s are both microgroove. I got rid of the Ballard .444SS. I have to tell you I was very surprised at both the velocities attained and the accuracy potential. There is no doubt from my targets that this boolit will be super accurate at longer ranges too. IIRC VV load data projected 2,865 with a max load of N-120 and a 200 grain condom bullet. I think I will have to get a higher power scope for this old rifle and my old eyes and wring that rifle out. I am quite pleased to say the least and my thanks to Matt and Scrounger. You guys are the bomb and have come up with a real winner!!! Feel free to e-mail me if you wish to discuss this. I love to brag because it is so seldom I have the chance. :mrgreen:

Dave

[Dutch4122]

.............................. I am quite pleased to say the least and my thanks to Matt and Scrounger. You guys are the bomb and have come up with a real winner!!!.........................:mrgreen:
Dave

Again Dave thanks for posting the results and your compliments.:-D

But I really don't deserve much credit here:

Scrounger came up with the original idea and posted it for discussion

45 2.1 DESIGNED THE BOOLIT SO HE GETS THE CREDIT FOR HOW WELL THE DESIGN "WORKS."

............All I did was run the Group Buy.

Can't wait to here of others results with this design!!!!!!!!!!!:drinks:

[VTDW]

Whip has been all over me about results.:-D He has been under the weather lately and hasn't had a chance to load any up. I have made him aware of the performance and figure he will post up shortly with his results.

Dave

[miestro_jerry]

You need to come to my place in the spring, when it is Ground Hog central.

Jerry

[Whip]

Whip has been all over me about results.:-D He has been under the weather lately and hasn't had a chance to load any up. I have made him aware of the performance and figure he will post up shortly with his results.

Dave

I am feeling better now. I don't know when I will be able to try my loads out. We have had lots of rain and I need a boat to get to my range. :roll:High winds tornado warning ect. :roll: I am leaving for Florida, to visit a friend and going hog hunting. This weekend. I am taking my 444 Marlin and 44 mag pistol. I have them loaded with Ranch dogs 432-285s. I will be gone all next week. When I get back I will try and get to testing the 210s. Steve:Fire:

[Bigscot]

VTDW,

What top punch are you using to size them. I need to get one for the same mould and the 434640 GB Boomer Mikey just had.

Thanks,

Bigscot

[VTDW]

Scot,

I made one from a SS 1/4" bolt. Any fairly large, flat, top punch should work.

Dave

[VTDW]

I finally got back to the range today where I found some very promising loads for the .444 and Dutch's 200 gr hardcast. The were moving at over 2,500 fps. I have another 400+fps to go as these were on the low end. There are two groups on each target. I was using a ladder test @ .2 gr increments.

Dave

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/vtdw1/HPIM0286.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/vtdw1/HPIM0287-1.jpg

[Lloyd Smale]

gopher/golfer about the same thing. Little weasel looking animals that like playing around holes and eating nuts. Both should be shot on sight
or even a gopher town.
725

[Blammer]

got any naked boolit pics?

[Dutch4122]

got any naked boolit pics?

Here's the original Drawing:

[Blammer]

yea but Real BOOLITS tell the story! :)

[Little Joe]

Those groups arn't to bad if they were shot at 100 yards but if they are from 50 yards they arn't that good.How far were the targets?

Little Joe

[Blammer]

ain't familiar with the ladder test eh? Little joe.

[BABore]

Those groups arn't to bad if they were shot at 100 yards but if they are from 50 yards they arn't that good.How far were the targets?

Little Joe


Before you post pictures of your own fine groups, re-read the post and you will see that VTDW's groups are from a ladder test. Each sucessive shot is 0.2 grains of additional powder.

[VTDW]

Nice catch BABORE:drinks:

Here is a link that will explain what I am doing a bit more. Take note of the numbers 405WCF worked up for me and put in the thread. I am VERY happy with this mold and the boolits it drops for my fo-foty-fo. I look forward to lots of fair weather this spring and lots of time at the range.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,27792.0.html

[VTDW]

yea but Real BOOLITS tell the story! :)

Here ya go Blammer

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/vtdw1/HPIM0288.jpg

[VTDW]

Anyone hazard a guess as to what the BC of this boolit would be?

Tnx,

Dave

[WKAYE]

My guess would be around .001. Seriously though, it wouldn't be very high. Of all the GB's I've missed out on, this is the one I regret the most. :(

[GLL]

Anyone have one of these moulds they would consider selling or know of one that might be available?

Jerry

gllewis@pasadena.edu

[Glen]

What alloy, hardness, size and lube? It looks like you're crimping over the ogive and not in the crimp groove, correct?

[VTDW]

What alloy, hardness, size and lube? It looks like you're crimping over the ogive and not in the crimp groove, correct?


50/50 WW/Lino, 28Bhn water dropped. I ignore crimp grooves and just use the Lee Factory Crimp Die with the boolits about .005-.007 off the lands. Lube is Felix Lube with a bit of LLA added.

I have shot 20 lower end loads using .2 gr per load and 2 shot groups. Next will be the mid-range loads and finally the high end loads. I will post pics and data once completed.

Dave

[VTDW]

UPDATE on this boolit in my .444T

I have shot this boolit with VV N-120 powder all the way from the bottom loads thru the Max load and here is what I have found.

Several sweet spots with this boolit. I will ignore the lower end loads and give the middle and high end loads.

COAL 2.504
54.8 good
55.4 good
55.6* great

56.4 good
56.6* great
56.8* BEST 2,880 fps - 3 hole cloverleaf
The .444T and 200 gr hardcast 28 Bnh showed great accuracy with VV N-120 56.6 thru 56.9 with best being 56.8 gr - 2,880 fps. Higher charges resulted in less accuracy up to and thru Max of 57.7 gr. and well over 2,900 fps.
This is one sweet boolit/powder combination with great accuracy/velocity potential. My next step will be at 200 yd.

Dave

[Newtire]

I never would have thought you could push a 210 gr. boolit that fast. I only have a non-gascheck plainbase design 200 grainer. It is plenty accurate with 12 grains of Unique.

My 1-38" seems to like anything with a gas check just as fast as you can push them even to j-word velocities. The key must be the gas check and it's flat base?

[VTDW]

Dutch,

I gave up on VV N-120. It gave me mucho velocity but I never did get the accuracy I was after. Here is a target I shot Wednesday a.m. The figures are on the pic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/vtdw1/Dutch%20210/HPIM0846.jpg

Dave 8)

[Dutch4122]

Nothing wrong with a 200 grn boolit at 2500 fps.:-D Is that load MAX, or are you just starting to work with H-4198?

[felix]

Matt, it would not be Max with 4198 because he was shooting N120 at 2900 fps. 4198 and 120 are very close in burn rate, but the acceleration curve is different, making for the difference in accuracy speed. This experiment brings home the thoughts about twist rate, doesn't? It would be interesting to me to see the results using both powders at the same charges found to be best for each, but using different primers. That would modify the acceleration traces. ... felix

[VTDW]

Nothing wrong with a 200 grn boolit at 2500 fps.:-D Is that load MAX, or are you just starting to work with H-4198?

I would have to look Dutch. I have some more of the 48.5 gr loaded as well as some under that and some at 48.7 and some at 49 for my next test.

Felix has a very interesting thought there but until I reload for several more years and learn a few more things that sort of heavy thinking stuff makes my head hurt.:veryconfu

I will check my load manuals tomorrow and get back to you.

Dave

[VTDW]

Dutch,

Max load for this boolit with H-4198 should be 51.2 compressed (Lee manual). I have shot in .5 gr increments up to 50 gr but skipping 49 gr and 49.5 gr. I have loaded another batch starting with 48.3, 48.5, 48.7, 49, and 49.5.

After those I might go from 50.2 thru 51.2 and see how that goes. I might, but doubt I can find another sweet spot going up in the load. Anyhow, Max load (51.2c) most likely would not gain me much more than another 100 fps over the 48.5 gr.

I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks again Dutch for such a sweet boolit that is looking very promising for higher velocities and accuracy with my .444T because I want to give it a go out to 200 yd and past.:drinks:

BTW Felix, the N-120 gives a MUCH sharper recoil with comparable loads than the H-4198 with my rifle.

Dave

[felix]

Should compare recoil only when velocity is about same at muzzle. Even then, I would expect N120 to be somewhat faster than 4198 with that straight case and bore size, making the recoil much sharper. Sharper recoil implies the need for a shorter barrel for the same accuracy as a longer barrel, but only when using a harder boolit to compensate for the sharper thrust. Very hard to substantiate this with any factory gun because of their excessive tolerances, but use as a general rule when having the same gun/caliber in different barrel lengths. ... felix