Rem .223 Once Fired Problem

[Russian 54r]

I recently bought 500 rounds of .223 Rem brass that was sold as once fired by the Army and cleaned. I bought it online and am having some problems with it. Most all of it is FC and is ""too short!" About 150 rounds were 5.56 Nato brass. It ranges from 1.700 to 1.755. Specs on it is supposed to be trimmed to 1.760. I think that i have been scammed! If it was once fired it should be longer than specs. The rounds won't even crimp the bullet! Am I wrong?

[too many things]

well not really it was most likely fired in a machine gun and the chambers are very loose

you may need to get a Small base die to make them work and will bet when resized they will be ok
AS ONE NOTE make sure you have good lube for resizing, or you will be cussing for a long time.Imperial is one of the best

[Russian 54r]

I already loaded up a bunch before I noticed the problem.

[GRUMPA]

FC brass is "NOTORIOUS" for being short straight from the factory. Been that way for a while now.

The FC is great brass, just not for reloading back to 223 though. Unless you check each and every case with calipers first and pick out the short ones. Most of them are right around 1.750 last I remember. I use that exclusively for the 221 Fireball and 222Rem conversions, which of course works just fine.

[Blanket]

If you had FC brass without a crimped primer it was not military but yes some brass is under the length does not hurt a thing but the biggest question is why and the heck are you crimping 223??

[Russian 54r]

The bullets I'm using are Speer 55gr SPBT and have a crimping ring. Going to use them in my AK's and AR. Been a while since I reloaded and first time to reload .223 ammo.

[Russian 54r]

If you had FC brass without a crimped primer it was not military but yes some brass is under the length does not hurt a thing but the biggest question is why and the heck are you crimping 223??

They do have crimped primers and had to bevel the primer pocket.

[freebullet]

A small base die might work a bit more brass up there.

[Cmm_3940]

FC is commercial Federal brass, not military. New American military 5.56 will be marked LC with the NATO cross (a circled +), and the year. It will almost always be long even when once-fired (SAWs do bad things to brass).

I have a bunch of the FC brass. Yes, it's all short. As long as you aren't crimping it, it will shoot just fine. Unless you are doing something to seriously knock your ammo around, like shooting full auto, there is no reason to crimp .223 IMO. If you ask five people for their opinion on crimping .223, you will most likely get 5 different answers.

Is Federal even producing new FC headstamp brass since they are owned by ATK, who currently runs the Lake City plant?

ETA: just because the primers are crimped doesn't mean the brass is military. Military 5.56 brass will have the year but not the caliber on the HS. Commercial will have .223 REM, but not the year. .223 REM brass is never military.

[Mike W1]

Just throwing this in FWIW and that might not be pertinent here. You do realize that .223 Rem. cases and 5.56mm cases ARE NOT the same and maybe that's part of the problem. I personally don't use military brass for that reason.

[medalguy]

Whether the brass was originally 5.56 or .223, once it's fired it matches the chamber it was fired in. After you resize it, it will all be .223 since all dies are .223. Never seen a 5.56mm die, have you?

[Russian 54r]

It is crimped brass and yes I did full length size. I loaded up 125 rounds and the neck tension is very good. When I get a chance I will shoot them and see how it goes. I made the OAL 2.225 which is .001 shorter than my loading books say. I don't think there will be any problem shooting them.

As a side note, I didn't know the military used .223 Rem. I thought all they used was 5.56 Nato. When I get a chance I'll post a couple of pic of the headstamps with the primers.

[CastingFool]

You will find crimped primers on remanufactured .223 ammo. I got a large batch of spent .223 brass, mixed lot of commercial and military, and they were all crimped. The LC headstamp measured about 1.760", all the others were shorter. they all got trimmed to 1.750" With a 55gr Hdy fmj with a cannelure loaded to 2.245" oal, the rim just reaches the cannelure.

[Russian 54r]

Here's couple of pics. First is the headstamps and the second will be loaded ammo. The ones on the left were of the correct length and worked fine. The other two were short cases and would not crimp.


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150123_083512_zpsfa3678a3.jpg


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150123_083600_zps79b9ee5f.jpg

[aspangler]

Contrary to popular opinion the case for 223 and 5.56 is the same size. The case for 5.56 is thicker to hold the extra pressure. The 5.56 chamber is "looser" and it will expand more. Also the throat in the 5.56 is longer than the 223. You can fire 223 in a 5.56 chamber but I don't recommend firing 5.56 in a 223 chamber. As to the FC brass being shorter, After you fire is a time or two in a 5.56 chamber it will be longer.

[Geezer in NH]

Lee factory crimp die will solve the problem on the crimps as it is not length sensitive.

[Russian 54r]

I got out my magnifying glass and looked at a bunch. They all have been trimmed and at least neck sized as they are all the same neck size and length. Bummer! I think maybe they messed up in sizing and must decided to sell the lot. As long as they shoot I guess I'm good with them.

[texassako]

Lee factory crimp die will solve the problem on the crimps as it is not length sensitive.

Not necessarily if the case is short enough to not reach the crimp section of the collet. I think his shorter ones would be to short for the FCD to crimp.

[Bayou52]

The 223 Lee FCD uses a collet style crimping mechanism. It will crimp even on bullets with absolutely no crimp cannelure. It will crimp those of yours where the case does not meet the cannelure. In short, the Lee FCD simply works.....

Bayou52

[EddieNFL]

The case for 5.56 is thicker to hold the extra pressure.

Not always.

[BruceB]

Out of curiosity, I once weighed about a dozen different types of .223/5.56 brass.

They were from several different commercial makers, both foreign and domestic,as well as LC-marked military brass with dates spanning many years.

ALL of them fell into a very narrow spread in weight, roughly 96.0-97.5 grains.

I just did it again, moments ago....same result.

Gentlemen, 1.5 grains of weight variation in cases DOES NOT represent much of a problem as far as pressures are concerned. Nor does it make any meaningful difference in case capacity.

After that initial episode, I basically ignore the weight of .223/5.56 cases, and load them all the same. That was years ago, as well as thousands of rounds loaded and fired in four or five rifles, with zero problems and excellent accuracy.

I still check-weigh a few cases from new batches of brass, but the above weight figures seem to hold true.

Note that the .30-caliber military brass in both .30'06 and 7.62 NATO usually DOES have a substantial difference in weight from commercial cases, being considerably heavier in many examples.

Loads should be reduced and then carefully worked-up again when using such cases.

[Russian 54r]

Out of curiosity, I once weighed about a dozen different types of .223/5.56 brass.

They were from several different commercial makers, both foreign and domestic,as well as LC-marked military brass with dates spanning many years.

ALL of them fell into a very narrow spread in weight, roughly 96.0-97.5 grains.

I just did it again, moments ago....same result.

Gentlemen, 1.5 grains of weight variation in cases DOES NOT represent much of a problem as far as pressures are concerned. Nor does it make any meaningful difference in case capacity.

After that initial episode, I basically ignore the weight of .223/5.56 cases, and load them all the same. That was years ago, as well as thousands of rounds loaded and fired in four or five rifles, with zero problems and excellent accuracy.

I still check-weigh a few cases from new batches of brass, but the above weight figures seem to hold true.

Note that the .30-caliber military brass in both .30'06 and 7.62 NATO usually DOES have a substantial difference in weight from commercial cases, being considerably heavier in many examples.

Loads should be reduced and then carefully worked-up again when using such cases.

Here's a link for that very discussion. http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209104

[GRUMPA]

The difference is how the 2 are loaded, not the case itself.

For a rather thorough description read this: .223 vs 5.56: An Exhaustive Review - Gun Digest - We Know Guns So You Know Guns (http://www.gundigest.com/223-vs-5-56)

[DrDogwood]

Just my two cents in here I have loaded tons of .223's over the years and have never crimped them. If you don't trim all your cases to exactly the same length they crimp differently and this effects acuracy. I load on a Dillon Rl450 several hundred at a time and they Will all punch 1/2 inch groups at 100yrds. If I do my part that is. Best of luck to you
Oh and remember Ar's tend to stretch the pudding out of cases so I limit the number of times I reload them to many less than in my other rifles.