Smokeless Powder in a 43 Spanish?

[brstevns]

Is anyone using smokeless powder in the 43 Spanish Rolling Block?

[Huffmanite]

Yes, I do. Have owned a 1879 Argentine 43 Spanish Rolling Block since later 1960s. Never reloaded it with black powder. Think I used 13 grs of Unigue back in the 60s, but not sure about that. Use mostly IMR Trail Boss these days. Have used Accurate 5744 and one or two other smokeless powders in the past to lob my 370 gr lead bullets down range.

[curator]

My preference for smokeless powder loads in my .43 Spanish rolling block is the Lyman 370 grain .439 slug (my mould has been lapped to .442 for my main rifle) and 23-25 grains of SR4759. I get good accuracy and only a little unburned powder granules in the bore. I have also used 25-30 grains of IMR4198 to good effect but that powder has been very difficult to obtain the past few years.

[justashooter]

in 43 mauser i use up to 12 grains blue dot under 300 grain bullets for about 1100 fps. agreed that imr4198 is the ideal powder, or perhaps H4227 in similar loadings.

[rfd]

i'd say the ideal smokeless powders would be aa5744, sr4759 or trail boss, but black is best of all in that old long gun.

[pworley1]

I shoot 4198 and WC872 with good results.

[ballistim]

I shoot 4198 and WC872 with good results.

Works great in my 45-70 Buffalo Classic!

[brstevns]

I have a lb of IMR 4198 . I will give it a try. Would like to try trail boss if I can find any. What would be a good starting load with it?

[salpal48]

I found 3031 works well

[brstevns]

I shoot 4198 and WC872 with good results. Were do you get WC872 powder?

[ballistim]

Jeff Bartlett
http://www.gibrass.com

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Another long time 43 Spanish shooter.
Biggest issue I found is to find your real throat diameter for Smokeless. My first 43 hs a throat that will accept a .445 bullet. Now if you do not want to PP the lead you are going to have to look for the 43 Mauser Mold that generally drops at .446 with a ww mix. That is a good one to have anyway if you want to get some accuracy. These rifles were made to still be able to shoot after 5 rounds without cleaning hence the fat throats. Troopers were not expected to take head shots. Most officers were pleased if there was a smoke cloud out there. Remember we are dealing with South American armies whose thinking was and still is very different. The troops were generally peasants herded about by officers who had little field training themselves. The rifles had to work always and accuracy was way down the list. The Peruvian Army still does not have troops fire past 100 for practice. 25 yards is very common with the FAL.
My last 43 Roller again has a fat throat some what ugly bore but again shoots that Mauser boolit well.
One day you might want to try some 2F BP. Again that Mauser mold will drop 40-1 at about .441 which will bump up nicely when kicked by the BP charge.
Mike in Peru

[brstevns]

Greetings
Another long time 43 Spanish shooter.
Biggest issue I found is to find your real throat diameter for Smokeless. My first 43 hs a throat that will accept a .445 bullet. Now if you do not want to PP the lead you are going to have to look for the 43 Mauser Mold that generally drops at .446 with a ww mix. That is a good one to have anyway if you want to get some accuracy. These rifles were made to still be able to shoot after 5 rounds without cleaning hence the fat throats. Troopers were not expected to take head shots. Most officers were pleased if there was a smoke cloud out there. Remember we are dealing with South American armies whose thinking was and still is very different. The troops were generally peasants herded about by officers who had little field training themselves. The rifles had to work always and accuracy was way down the list. The Peruvian Army still does not have troops fire past 100 for practice. 25 yards is very common with the FAL.
My last 43 Roller again has a fat throat some what ugly bore but again shoots that Mauser boolit well.
One day you might want to try some 2F BP. Again that Mauser mold will drop 40-1 at about .441 which will bump up nicely when kicked by the BP charge.
Mike in Peru
Lots of good information.
I do have a question for those using imr4198 and Unique. Do you add Dacron etc to hold powder back?

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/23E5560C8BB6BF7/standard.jpg

Two different boolits and 2 different powders. My 43 Spanish is a 1879 Argentine contract Remington.

http://www.fototime.com/CFE4FB6484BDAE6/standard.jpg

These don't have a throat we're used to seeing. There is no neck portion in the chamber, with a step for the beginning of the throat. Instead the cylindrical portion of the chamber for the neck continues straight ahead to the leade. In other words, when you chamber a round the boolit has about 0.010" windage all around it. The inverted boolit in the case displays the distance from the casemouth to the leade. I suppose the throat design had something to do with powder fouling?

http://www.fototime.com/4B9EBE131ADC269/standard.jpg

This is a 45 cal boolit that was dropped in the chamber and then tapped forward to engrave the lands and show a picture of the leade. The angle pink line on top shows the angle of the leade and the 2 parallel lines show it's length. My RB has a very fine barrel and a groove of .441". However if I size the slugs to .441" I cannot chamber the round (the brass is Bertram) so I size to .440". The bore form is 5 x lands & grooves of about equal width. I've fired 50 rounds in a sitting before and leading (if any) is usually some 'Sparklies' in the lube and powder residue of the first patch.

http://www.fototime.com/259673ADE90A4AA/standard.jpg

Mountain Moulds makes a 420gr slug (on the left) which is able to reach across the throat and engrave while still in the case. Boolit on the right is the RCBS 43-370.

I tried BP in this rifle-cartridge ......... once :-) It was years ago and what I knew could be written on the head of a pin. Basically I knew not to have any air space in the case. There was no 1-1/2Fg then so I used 2Fg Goex and got 88.0grs settled in the case to the base of the neck. Atop those I had a couple waxed cardwads, a lubed 1/8" felt wad, a 1/8" thick lube cookie and then the Mountain Moulds boolit cast of pure lead. All it's grooves were filled with Ox-Yoke BP lube. Firing them wasn't a joyfull experience and before too many went downrange I was looking for anyone who'd be interested in firing off a few :-)

...............Buckshot

[ascast]

wow 88 grns, that's kinda funny in an ouch way

I am curious as too how you got the necks sized back down, or did you?
I know there are enough bullets mold out there between .439 and say .452 to get up and shooting. The problem is the sizing dies, which all seem to be made for .439 boolits ( both sizer and expander plug). How did you crack that one?
tx
d

[Buckshot]

wow 88 grns, that's kinda funny in an ouch way

I am curious as too how you got the necks sized back down, or did you?
I know there are enough bullets mold out there between .439 and say .452 to get up and shooting. The problem is the sizing dies, which all seem to be made for .439 boolits ( both sizer and expander plug). How did you crack that one?
tx
d

............I hesitate to say as I do not make them for others (no time). I made an insert type neck sizer.

http://www.fototime.com/57FDCC442C1911E/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F8A71123107F86F/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/270BFCD63A02CF7/standard.jpg

The necks don't need much sizing at all. Just a couple thousandths does it.

...............Buckshot

[Mk42gunner]

What a difference the brand of brass makes in case capacity. Mine are reformed .348 Winchester from Buffalo Arms, and it has been a few years since I loaded them with BP; but as I remember my load was more like 77 grains of Goex FFg with only a card wad under the boolit.

I don't remember the recoil being all that bad; but I don't think I would have liked to have another eleven or so grains of propellant in them either.

Robert

[marlinman93]

My Roller isn't a .43 Spanish, but pretty close in case capacity and bullet. Mine is in .44-77 Sharps Bottleneck, and I have had good results with 4759 powder. My bore is original, and does have a bit of erosion near the chamber, but still shoots under 2" at 100 yds. so I'm happy with it.