Another crappy Lee mold!

[dikman]

I have several Lee molds (round ball) and they've been fine except for the dud I bought a while ago. Lee were no help and weren't interested in me, so my next order with Titan I bought a replacement which works fine (it would have cost me more to send it back to Lee than buy the replacement!!). Having just taken up cartridge reloading, I bought a couple more molds from Titan and thought I'd better try them out today.

First one is a .358 semi-wadcutter (two cavity). The boolits were coming out with wrinkle lines, so I figured I'd keep going as maybe the mold needed "breaking in" - 100 later and no better. Hmmm, got out the other mold (.429 round flat nose) and tried that. The first few were a bit iffy, but then it settled down to making nice boolits. Ok, it's not the melt or the temp.

I had a close look at the mold under a magnifier and could see little flat bits of metal that had been folded flat along the face of the mold at the edges of the cutouts! WTH? I carefully filed them off with a small flat file and tried again. Better, but still a couple of wrinkles appearing even though I can't see anything wrong anywhere.

I'll try the Lee-menting process with some very fine polish, but if that doesn't work I'll just have to put up with it. After my last little effort with Lee I have no intention of wasting time contacting them, as they just don't care. I have quite a bit of Lee gear for reloading, including a new press, an old Pro1000 and various dies and bits and pieces. Some has needed a bit of work, but that's no big deal as the quality is generally pretty good - BUT NOT SO THEIR MOLDS! I have had a 20% failure rate!

Doesn't say much for their Quality Control.

[mattd]

If you'd have called them before casting to tell them about the burrs, they would have told you to not worry about them and cast anyway because they are in the vent line and won't affect casting. Then once you do that, and get crappy bullets cause the pins don't align, you cant take it back to where you bought it cause it's now used. Then you'll spend a bunch of time going back and forth about the situation and at best they will say send it in for testing. Which cost darn near as much as the mold.

Ask me how I know.

[cuzinbruce]

I have always found that wrinkled bullets are a temperature problem, either the lead or the mold. That is my experience, anyway.
Good Luck

[TheDoctor]

I have too much of a good thing with one of mine. Have a 6 cavity that is supposed to drop .356, and the turkey drops .363-.365! Run one through a push through sizer, and it comes out wearing a hula skirt. Might try it again one day with the mold SMOKIN HOT, and see how small I can get them.

[gunoil]

Sell all, buy rcbs pro melt & hardline molds. These will make you a pro.

[sparky45]

The newer style Lee Molds with the Pins in the mold face work great. No need to pay a $100 for a Hardline (which are very nice molds) when a $40 Lee will do the job.

[r1kk1]

Didn't know about Hardline Gunoil, thanks! I wish the made moulds for the Linbaughs. The biggest looks like it for a 500. Not enough diameter. I have Lee custom moulds that work well.

Take care

r1kk1

[jmorris]

I had a close look at the mold under a magnifier and could see little flat bits of metal that had been folded flat along the face of the mold at the edges of the cutouts! WTH?

Part of the territory when dealing with parts that cost less than it does to ship them.

[rasto]

I will never do the same mistake again. To buy Lee molds again. Cheap means poor materials, craftsmanship and service. No other things to add. Buy steel made molds from normal company.

[mdi]

One of these days folks are gonna stop complaining about Lee products. "Another crappy mold"? How many "crappy" Lee molds do you own? Your post says just one!

I've only been casting for 15 years and use mostly Lee molds (9). I have never had wrinkles that I could blame on the mold. It's always been either temperature of mold or melt, or alloy. I have only one mold, a Lachmiller, among a couple Ideal and RCBS (?) molds, and 9 Lee molds, that has never given any trouble with good bullets dropping from the first pour. Each mold seems to have it's own "personality" and may prefer slightly different temps, methods, or alloy. I have always cleaned my new Lee molds, then cleaned them better, finishing off with a bath in brake clean. I would preheat and toss the first 20-30 bullets (for a new mold), and then start dropping good bullets. I have a new Lee mold that after cleaning and preheating drops good bullets, but the "new style" pins fell out. One out of nine? That ain't too bad...

[newrib]

Temperature of the alloy and the method of which you cast cause the wrinkles. Do you cast using a PID ? Are you using a proven and known alloy ? Is the mold in question being preheated ? LEE molds are one of todays good values.

[LUBEDUDE]

I have always found that wrinkled bullets are a temperature problem, either the lead or the mold. That is my experience, anyway.
Good Luck

Yup ^^^^

[Shooter6br]

I have Lee molds from my father..................40 yrs old. Not up to my old H&G 4 cav #50 or my Milhec or Accurate molds, but workable

[garym1a2]

I buy my Lee stuff from Midway, if I have a problem with it than I return it to MIDWAY. I have used Midway returns before and they are very good customer support. I suggest you return them to where you buy them (Titan). If Titan does not take returns than find a new supplier.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

yup ^^^^+yup^^^^

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I buy my Lee stuff from Midway, if I have a problem with it than I return it to MIDWAY. I have used Midway returns before and they are very good customer support. I suggest you return them to where you buy them (Titan). If Titan does not take returns than find a new supplier. Yup on this too.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I own a lot of Lee molds. I seldom buy anything but the 6 gang version. I've never been disappointed in what I got vs. what I paid. I avoid the 2 gang version, as it appears to give more problems than the 6 gang, but I have a few 2 gangs. I've been on this forum for many years and if someone has had a problem they could solve with a Lee mold, they could post it here and someone knew the solution.

I suggest those that are complaining about the Lee molds or casting problems instead post pics of the mold and give data on what they were doing. Someone here should be able to talk you through solving the problems. Casting is somewhat art/somewhat science and that's where your solution will be and someone here can help you.

[jmorris]

I have never had a problem with any of my Lee molds. For the money they are a good deal.

Then again for the price I don't expect them to be artwork.

[dikman]

As always, thanks for the comments, but a couple of points -
I have had two faulty molds out of ten, a 20% failure rate like I said. I obviously didn't make that clear enough. I don't consider that as something any company should be proud of.
For those who say temp/alloy is the problem, re-read my post, I switched to my other new mold and that cast fine, using the same temp/alloy - so it's not the temp/alloy (which, by the way, I had been using previously in an older Lee mold, same size, lent to me by a friend and that cast fine. And yes, I'm using a PID). I also tried varying the temp, but that didn't help.
Mattd, these were more than "burrs". Also, the faces of the two mold halves are not flat all over, there are obvious raised flat sections running along the top and bottom faces, leaving the mid-point a couple of thou. lower. Quite bizarre, none of my other molds are like that.
Measuring a boolit shows a variation from .355 - .359. This is on a .358 mold (supposedly guaranteed to be within .001 round by Lee).
Yes, I have had a pin drop out of a "new design" mold too (I much prefer the older style).
As for returning it, I'm sure that Titan would do the right thing but it will cost me more to send it back than it cost to buy!

Jmorris, I don't expect them to be works of art either, I just expect them to do what they're supposed to.

I've only been casting for a bit under two years, unlike many of you, and certainly don't consider myself an expert by any means, BUT I've spent a lot of time on here (and other places) reading about the process and like to think I know enough to tell when it's a mold problem or not.

[RogerDat]

It would seem that you took logical steps to isolate the problem, having the edge not properly de-burred which it sounds like you are describing while not great is probably not that big of a deal. I mean for the most part caster are mechanically inclined, which you seemed to be since you did some work to address that problem.

One question. Is the .429 mold holding a lot more lead than the .358 swc mold? Or possibly distributing it better? More lead mass or different shape might have an impact on the mold temp that could be addressed.

Your friends mold is broken in, yours is new and may have had some residue oils trapped under those flakes you filed off.

[abqcaster]

FWIW, I buy my molds exclusively from Midway. Whenever I had a problem, they send me a form to fill out and send back with whatever, including lee molds. I not only get a replacement, but I also get reimbursed for the cost of shipping the return to them.

[trapper9260]

I have some Lee molds.and do not have any problems with them.As for the problem you have with how the boolit came out I found that if the mold is not hot enough.After the mold is then I do not have any more boolits like was stated.

[dikman]

abgcaster, part of the problem is being overseas - no-one wants to know you if something goes wrong (well, not quite true, I've found that Chinese companies invariably simply send out a replacement if something's wrong).

Trapper, after casting over 100 boolits I think the mold was well and truly hot enough!

RogerDat, a good point about the size, yes the .429 is significantly larger (of course) with a bigger mass. I did wonder about that myself, but as I mentioned my mate's mold (old single cavity .358) cast fine.

Anyhow, after "Lee-menting" it a bit it's now casting better - not perfect, but better. There are still some dropping with minor wrinkles (which occur in the same place each time) but I still can't actually see anything wrong physically with the mold. The problem is also pretty much confined to the front half of the mold. I'll give it another tweaking with the "Lee-menting", but at least I'm now getting something that is useable.

The "rebating" that I mentioned is interesting. I can insert a .0025 feeler gauge from one end of the closed mold to the other. This is obviously how they've vented it, no subtlety here, just machine a wide flat down the whole length of the block!
It's one thing to tweak something to improve it's performance, it's another thing when it's not even useable to start with (and it's still not within Lee's "guaranteed" sizing).

Guess I'm lucky that I've managed to salvage it (thanks to the forum and the experimenting guys have done with the "Lee-menting" process).

[retread]

I have several Lee molds. The older two cavity are a pain. The new ones are pretty darn good for the price. The six cavity molds are great if you replace the sprue plate with the steel ones from 338 REM MAG (Joshua). I have a lot of Lyman and Rcbs but they are all one and two cavity molds. I prefer them but the cost is higher.

[Chill Wills]

I agree that as far away from Lee as you are, returning a $20 mould makes no sense. Also, a $20 mold is something of a gamble but more often then not, a good one with Lee.
Sorry you got the odd one or two - it will and does happen.

OK, The wrinkle problem, aside from the machining chips you removed in the mold; especially with a new mold, makes me think of oil or grease in the cavity. Just a guess but try to really clean it first with plain soap and water and then using a Q-tip and ETOH (alcohol) of some kind. And if that does not work, drink the remaining alcohol:-P.

From what you described, I think you have the alloy, heat and the rest close enough that, that is not your problem. Truly, just mold and alloy being too cool, captured air in the mould OR some kind of oil is the likely cause of almost all casting wrinkles. When ever I have a mould act up it is one of these.

I bet as you keep at it you will find the cause. All the best...

[Driver man]

Temperature of the alloy and the method of which you cast cause the wrinkles. Do you cast using a PID ? Are you using a proven and known alloy ? Is the mold in question being preheated ? LEE molds are one of todays good values.
Id agree with that

[Norbrat]

Richard, this is the answer to your mold problem: http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/

[dikman]

Thanks Norbert, I've bookmarked it for future reference.

Driver man/newrib -
yes, I'm using a PID (mentioned earlier)
yes, the alloy is recycled range scrap (which I've used a lot with no problems)
yes, the mold is pre-heated

I've been thinking along the same lines as Chill Wills (I reckon you're right). Both molds (.358 and .429) were new and hadn't been used. I cleaned both of them at the same time and the same way with alcohol (same way I've cleaned all my other molds). The .429 worked, the other one didn't - until I used a fine polish on it. It makes me think that the .358 had something impregnated into the metal that the alcohol couldn't shift (although I would have thought after the heat of casting over 100 boolits it should have cleaned up a bit).

Only thing that makes any sense.

[trapper9260]

Since it looks like a chip in the mold ,have you try laping compound .put it on a boolit and work it on the mold to see if it would clean some of it out then.

[dikman]

Yep, what you're describing is the "Lee-menting" process I referred to earlier. However, there was no chip, or any other marks, within the actual molding areas (I used a magnifier to have a good look and couldn't find any marks anywhere).

I've since polished it again and given it a good scrubbing in petrol! If it doesn't behave itself now I'm going to give it a damned good thrashing!

[rfd]

though mostly use lyman and brooks moulds, never had a problem with my lee moulds - 459-500-3r, .440 and .490 balls, .45acp h&g 68, .38 350-150-1r

i pre-clean the mould with alcohol and lube the pins and sprue cutter. watch yer pot temp as as wrinkles are usually about too much heat, and do pre-heat the mould.

some 459-500-3r for the .45-70 rifles ...

http://i.imgur.com/eyJTUUf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rQUTUnE.jpg

[RogerDat]

....

I've since polished it again and given it a good scrubbing in petrol! If it doesn't behave itself now I'm going to give it a damned good thrashing!

Nice thing about this forum is lots of friendly advice and when none of that works plenty of members willing to help you with the "damned good thrashing". Always nice to have someone hold the thrashee while you pound away. More efficient. :p

Might be time to try voodoo. Smoke the mold with a couple of wooden matches, remember to let the wax and chemicals burn off the match first.

Molds seem sort of like women. Everything required to be "perfect" but sometimes just not willing to cooperate.
BTW - wife ever gets my password I'm a dead man :holysheep

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

One thought that occured to me is you've got a pretty good sized caliber. I skim read, but didn't see a boolit weight. If it's a fairly large boolit, you might also want to try using a ladle vs. bottom pour. It's always that art/witchcraft/black art part that can be a pain with a mold. And try both a slightly lower and hotter temperature.

And this is a critical point: Make sure you've got your tongue stuck out on the left side, not the right, as you fill the mold.

[upnorthwis]

How do they shoot? Sometimes looks don't matter. I have about 8 Lee molds. If the boolit does what it's supposed to do that's all that matters to me.

[ioon44]

I just bought a new Lee 401-145 2cav mold and to me it is a lot better than Lee molds from 20 years ago.

I cleaned the mold with Acetone and just started casting after it got up to temp the boolits came out fine. With 6-2-92 alloy they weighed 142.5gr and were .402" da.
I mostly don't like Lee stuff but this mold worked fine.

[dudel]

How do they shoot? Sometimes looks don't matter. I have about 8 Lee molds. If the boolit does what it's supposed to do that's all that matters to me.

That's the bottom line for me as well. I used to cull anything but perfect. My production was very, very low. Then one day I decided to try some of the culls. As long as the base was clean and sharp, and there are no major voids, the rest could be downright ugly and still work well for pistol out to 25 yrds. Not exactly flying prunes; but there are wrinkles in the nose.

My least favorite Lee mold is my 2 cav bator. I'm happy to have it; but if not for shooting the "culls", I'd not have much to shoot. I just can't seem to find the right timing/pace for those itty bitty projectiles. I've cleaned, degreased, added heat, reduced heat; but they still come out ugly. However they shoot fine in my Handi and Contender. And let's face it, it's hard to make an ALOX covered boolit look pretty!

[Tar Heel]

Thanks to all of you Leementors I now realize I am the luckiest guy in the world. All 12 of my Lee molds work perfectly. Of course, I followed the directions included with the mold, my melt is of proper temperature, and my alloy is not some weird non-tin alloy; except for the pure lead RB's which cast just fine too.

128200

[dikman]

Haven't shot any yet as I'm still waiting for my revolvers to arrive (Uberti 1875's). Yeah, I reckon what they're casting now should be good enough for what I need, although it doesn't change the fact that Lee's QC is **** - they're still out-of-round and not within Lee's "guaranteed" size.

Oh, and I'll watch out for the tongue, Dave.......

[retread]

I bought a Lee 2 cavity 429-240 a few years back. It dropped at 268. I called lee and the rep told me that was within their tolerance. Wow!!