Acceptable performance from a fixed sight revolver

[12DMAX]

Starting to work with this SP101 3" i picked up a few years back new. Handloading jacketed for now to smooth things up a bit. Been playing with 125's and 158's and although im getting ok grouping the POI is always left. I have tested off bags, off hand and even had a friend shoot it, everything is left. This would be my first fixed sight revolver so maybe i'm expecting too much? The attached photo is a standard POI.

[Lefty Red]

Nope! The SP101 should shoot POA! That is way too much too much to the left at 21 feet! At 15 yards its like a half a foot or more!

Might have to open up the back sight or work on the front sight.

[12DMAX]

My blackhawk had too go back because of the same issue only on it you could definitely see the barrel was canted badly. The SP appears to be in line correctly with the frame BUT i think i can see maybe that the barrel is bent.

[Bigslug]

I'd suggest you first deepen your data pool before you get medieval on the revolver. Have others shoot it - a lefty if you can find one. It's the norm for right handers to throw their rounds left due to lack of support hand pressure, trigger finger placement issues, right wrist and or elbow not locked, right thumb loose, eyes coming off the sights to watch the hit, etc... Not saying you're wrong, but I've corrected A LOT more shooters than guns with groups looking just like yours. If you haven't played with shorter guns very much, the reduced sight radius demands much more attention to sight picture than on a full size gun.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have a lot of revolvers with fixed sights and actually prefer fixed sights to adjustable ones on certain types of guns.
I'm with Bigslug, get a larger pool of data before you do anything. Correcting problems with fixed sights involves some fairly permanent alterations. If it's not too far out of whack, you can open up one side of the rear sight notch.
There is a possibility that the barrel is not "clocked" correctly, meaning when it was screwed into the frame the front sight didn't end up exactly vertical. The best fix for that would be a trip back to Ruger. A competent gunsmith can do the same job but it's very involved (read that as expensive) work.

I agree with everything Bigslug posted.

Those SP101's are solid guns. Good Luck

[Harry O]

Shoot it some more until you get very familiar with it. The amount that it is off MAY change for the better. Make sure that you settle on ONE load and get a lot of experience with it and your gun before you touch the fixed sights.

Every fixed sight gun I have has shot low and to the left for me. That is just my eyes. That is why I prefer adjustable sights. However, I have a number of fixed sight guns that I could not pass up. Consequently, I have a lot of experience with moving fixed sights to get them dead on.

It is not that difficult. I start out by widening the rear sight with a file in the proper direction. Make sure you have a small square file with one safe side. If you don't have one, make it from a standard square file by grinding one face smooth. Hopefully, that will take care of the problem. If that does not move it enough, I then go to the front sight. Roughen and clean the correct side of the front sight and build the width sideways with J-B Weld. Then face it off with a file and paint it black. Make small adjustments and test fire it often. Don't change loads after doing this.

[12DMAX]

All noted. I plan on shooting it more before i jump too conclusions. Was a bit surprised though at only 21'. The pic above was off hand, on bags the group tightens up more but still shoots to the same POI. The SP has a very short LOP for me, I have tried with just my finger tip, pad of the first index all the way to the pad of the second index.

[Outpost75]

I would send the target to Ruger, describing what ammunition you were using, ask what type ammunition and bullet weight it would have been targeted with at the factory. Also ask if they would provide a prepaid return UPS label to ship it back and have the barrel turned to correct an "off shooter".

DO NOT file on the gun or make any modifications!

Doing so will void your warranty.

They correct zero at the factory by holding the frame in a fixture and turning the barrel by striking the barrel underlug with a lead hammer. If the barrel cannot be torqued in this way, the barrel is usually removed, and the frame dressed lightly on a surface grinder and the barrel reinstalled. It is an easy repair IF you have the right tools, but on a new gun you should send ikt to the factory to have it done under warranty repair.

[bobthenailer]

I would send it back to ruger for a possible repair !
or if that fails make the rear sight notch wider , but only take metal from the right side of the notch to move bullet impact to the right , this may help some but may or may not fully correct your condtion.

[Certaindeaf]

Since the front sight is removable/replaceable, I'd modify that (after taking it off the gun) before I'd modify the rear sight channel.

[Harry O]

I am just curious. Has anyone here ever actually returned a revolver to Ruger to have the barrel twisted and had them do it?

I have never tried that, but I did return a Ruger 44-40 Vaquero twice to Ruger because it would not shoot worth beans. The barrel was 0.430". The cylinder throat was 0.424". The chambers were so tight that they would not accept any bullet over 0.427". So the 0.427" bullet had to squeeze down to 0.424" to go through the throats, then expand to 0.430" to seal the bore, all within approx. one bullet length. It did not work.

The first time, they swapped out the cylinder for a different one that was on the line. The dimensions were exactly the same as the one they removed. The second time, they returned it without any work being done. They included a letter that said the revolver met their tolerances and they were not going to do anything more to it. They said that if I wanted anything different, I should find a "custom gunsmith" to do it.

I have not been very happy with Ruger since then.

[12DMAX]

I am just curious. Has anyone here ever actually returned a revolver to Ruger to have the barrel twisted and had them do it?

I have never tried that, but I did return a Ruger 44-40 Vaquero twice to Ruger because it would not shoot worth beans. The barrel was 0.430". The cylinder throat was 0.424". The chambers were so tight that they would not accept any bullet over 0.427". So the 0.427" bullet had to squeeze down to 0.424" to go through the throats, then expand to 0.430" to seal the bore, all within approx. one bullet length. It did not work.

The first time, they swapped out the cylinder for a different one that was on the line. The dimensions were exactly the same as the one they removed. The second time, they returned it without any work being done. They included a letter that said the revolver met their tolerances and they were not going to do anything more to it. They said that if I wanted anything different, I should find a "custom gunsmith" to do it.

I have not been very happy with Ruger since then.

Yes sir i have. Not too many months ago i sent back my blackhawk because the POI was way left i ran out of rear adjustment and was still 2" from POA. Thing about that gun was the barrel cant was very obvious, not so with my SP. Also the cylinder catch was scoring my cylinder to the point my fingernail would catch on it. Now i had to fight pretty hard before ruger would pick up the shipping cost to them, they wanted to reimburse me only after they determined it was a defect. I'm no gunsmith but like i told the fella on the phone, pretty sure with only a few hundred revolutions my cylinder shouldn't be scored that bad. Anyway i got the revolver back 2wks later and not only did they replace the cylinder and fix the barrel that thing must have been **** when it left the assembly line I mean it cocked and locked up like my python and now shoots straight. They also must have saw a discrepancy with the forcing cone because it obviously had some work done too it, looks as though they cut a new angle in it. The SP101 is a sweet little piece, for now the jury is out on this one, I dont have much time behind the wheel of these little revolvers so I am going to heed some of the advice given here and Deepen my data pool before I condemn Ruger for this one also. I'm not too confident though, 21' off bags is not rocket science but hey my daddy always told me listen with your ears not your mouth. No doubt I could be missing something.

[Groo]

Groo here
What grip do you have on it?
Factory?
If so get a bigger one, Pachmayr etc.
I had the same problem and went to a Crimson Trace grip [ the soft one]

[Artful]

Groo is on the right track on those little pocket guns grip is very important - if you change the grip or even just take the current grip and tighten your hold or loosen it - it will change POI.

[Char-Gar]

I have had a few fix sighted revolvers that shot off on windage one way or another. It you are positively 100% certain the cause is not the ammo, the grip or eyes of the shooter, then the fix is to turn the barrel in the frame. Do not file or grind on the sights!!!

If a factory will take it back under warranty that is the way to go. I have send new Smiths back right out of the box, even before I fired a single shot. All it took was looking down the barrel to see the front sight was canted. Every time the sixgun came back fixed.

On some older Smith and Wesson that shot off, the problem was the barrel was wasn't straight in the frame. With the cylinder removed the frame was placed across to babbit bars, one at the muzzle and the other at the grip. The barrel/frame joint was them smacked with another babbit bar and the pistol shot to check for point of impact. This was repeated if more movement was needed.

At any rate, grinding or filing on the sights IS NOT the way to correct this kind of problem. I don't care how many folks say they have done it that way, I will not do it that way, nor will any competent and knowledgeable gunsmith.

[Char-Gar]

I am just curious. Has anyone here ever actually returned a revolver to Ruger to have the barrel twisted and had them do it?

I have never tried that, but I did return a Ruger 44-40 Vaquero twice to Ruger because it would not shoot worth beans. The barrel was 0.430". The cylinder throat was 0.424". The chambers were so tight that they would not accept any bullet over 0.427". So the 0.427" bullet had to squeeze down to 0.424" to go through the throats, then expand to 0.430" to seal the bore, all within approx. one bullet length. It did not work.

The first time, they swapped out the cylinder for a different one that was on the line. The dimensions were exactly the same as the one they removed. The second time, they returned it without any work being done. They included a letter that said the revolver met their tolerances and they were not going to do anything more to it. They said that if I wanted anything different, I should find a "custom gunsmith" to do it.

I have not been very happy with Ruger since then.

Ruger makes revolvers to shoot jacketed bullet factory ammo. They are not the least bit concerned about us guys that shoot cast bullets. They have their own ***** ideas of how handguns should be made and don't care in the least what your ideas are on the subject.

I once had a OM Blackhawk in 41 Magnum, that has a barrel groove diameter .003 larger than the cylinder throat. After two trips back to the factory, they did not fix it, saying it was within factory specifications. That was before we knew how or folks made the tooling to open up the throats. Today, I would just open up the throats and shoot Ruger the finger.

Subsequent to that I bought two new Rugers (Old Army and Blackhawk) that had heat scale in the barrels. Ruger promptly replaced the barrels, reblued the pistols and sent them back. When they screw up they fix it, but our notions of a Ruger screw up don't always coincide with Ruger's notions of a screw up. That is just a fact of life we have to live with.

[12DMAX]

I have had a few fix sighted revolvers that shot off on windage one way or another. It you are positively 100% certain the cause is not the ammo, the grip or eyes of the shooter, then the fix is to turn the barrel in the frame. Do not file or grind on the sights!!!

If a factory will take it back under warranty that is the way to go. I have send new Smiths back right out of the box, even before I fired a single shot. All it took was looking down the barrel to see the front sight was canted. Every time the sixgun came back fixed.

On some older Smith and Wesson that shot off, the problem was the barrel was wasn't straight in the frame. With the cylinder removed the frame was placed across to babbit bars, one at the muzzle and the other at the grip. The barrel/frame joint was them smacked with another babbit bar and the pistol shot to check for point of impact. This was repeated if more movement was needed.

At any rate, grinding or filing on the sights IS NOT the way to correct this kind of problem. I don't care how many folks say they have done it that way, I will not do it that way, nor will any competent and knowledgeable gunsmith.

Couldn't agree more. Once i completely rule out operator and components the gun will most definitely go back to ruger, cavalier or cadillac i don't care money is money, fit and finish you get what you pay for but functionality well a gun that doesn't shoot straight isn't functionable,may as well be scrap.

[RogerDat]

Couldn't agree more. Once i completely rule out operator and components the gun will most definitely go back to ruger, cavalier or cadillac i don't care money is money, fit and finish you get what you pay for but functionality well a gun that doesn't shoot straight isn't functionable,may as well be scrap.

Totally. Especially considering the SP101 3" ain't much use as a club after you fire every round without hitting what you were "aiming" at.

[12DMAX]

Totally. Especially considering the SP101 3" ain't much use as a club after you fire every round without hitting what you were "aiming" at.

True true, the good thing is you can throw it a long ways.