Stupid 44 mag

[pumpguy]

Well, now I see what everyone is talking about. I took my 1985 vintage model 1894 44mag out yesterday. At 100 yards, I could barely keep the shots on the target stand let alone in the target!:twisted: I was shooting some Winchester 240 grain soft points. I guess I will just have to slug the bore and try some 429421s or the RCBS Keith design. It was pretty good at 25 yards and there was no keyholing, so, I don't know if that will help. We'll see.

[Thumbcocker]

Make syre you use fat boolits. My 1894 .44 will do well under 2" at 100 if I use 429444 with gas check sized to 431 with 18.0 of 2400 and a 4x scope.

For plinking .44 special brass feeds better with 439421's

Good luck.

[S.R.Custom]

I feel your pain-- never had much good luck with .44 Mag rifles, and I've fooled with a lot of them. The biggest thing I'm guessing you're dealing with is a goofy twist rate. The .44 Mag isn't exactly benchrest material, is it? :-?

That's the biggest reason I went to the Browning BLR in .358 Winchester. With reduced loadings (.44 mag velocities), I can put a 245 gr SAECO GC bullet into 1.5" at 100 yards. Life is short; you may wish to consider the same.

[wonderwolf]

I've had really good luck with my 94 Trapper in .44 Magnum. I put guide sights from williams on it though since I'm used to shooting with rear peep sights things have really improved. Mine really likes the Keith style with 2400 (I wanna say I use Keiths load but I don't have my notebook here so I'm unsure). I have not tried the Lee 310 gr bullet yet but someday I'll try. The rifle will hit the 200 yard gong on a regular basis but I would not attempt game out that far with it. :coffee:

[45 2.1]

The .44 Mag isn't exactly benchrest material, is it? :-?

You might be really suprised. The Rem. 788 in 44 mag will put many jacketed rifles to shame. Very easy to get Lyman 429421s under 3/4" at 100 yds. Carries well farther out also. It all depends on the right boolit size/type, alloy and loading technique.

[S.R.Custom]

You might be really suprised. The Rem. 788 in 44 mag will put many jacketed rifles to shame.

Yeah, well, that's a bolt-gun. Totally different animal.

But you're right, the .44M does have the potential to surprise... my last .44M levergun really surprised me...

It was a Trapper that I ordered from Bolsa Gunsmithing about a year before Winchester closed the New Haven plant. Groove diameter was .438" and it wouldn't even engrave rifling on a Hornady XTP. As you can imagine, it was key-holing at 20 feet with group size running about 10". (Now I ask you-- what in bloody hell is Winchester doing with a .438" broach cutter? After being informed of the specifics, Bolsa bought it back no questions asked.)

That was an extreme, obviously. The best one I ever had was one of the Miroku/Winchester 1892 rifles in .44M when they first came out. On a really, really, REALLY good day, I could hold it to 5" at 100 yards, which was pretty decent for the buckhorn sights.

Any gun has the potential to be a tackdriver, provided you start out with a decent barrel. But to me, finding a decent .44M barrel on a factory levergun is like hunting Unicorns. I keep hearing about them, but I've never seen one.

[Scrounger]

SuperMag, I lived in Westminster almost 40 years and knew Fred at Bolsa for just as long. The shop is less than a mile from where I lived. I was in there for something 5 or 6 years ago and was talking to Fred in the back. There were dozens and dozens of gun boxes stacked back there. Bolsa was the factory warranty station for Winchester and numerous other brands. He told me they shipped all the warranty returned guns to him for repair. Repairs could mean some simple cosmetic thing or replacing a sight or stock. After repair, the company, Winchester or whoever, auctioned off the guns in lots to whatever company or organization wanted to bid on them. Fred said when he saw what they were going for, he started bidding on them himself. Think about it: He's already been paid for fixing them, they're setting in his shop so there's no shipping charge to get them, why the heck not buy them cheap and resell them? Anyway, I bought one of the Trappers in .45 Colt. Never fired the thing, sold it to a Cowboy shooter after I moved to Nevada. I guess the barrel in your .44 was "within factory specs" as they say...

[S.R.Custom]

...I guess the barrel in your .44 was "within factory specs" as they say...

Obviously. I mean, they had a cutter for it, right? That told me a lot about Winchester.

Interesting info about Bolsa, tho... which raises another question in my mind. The more I buy (and subsequently sell :???: ) guns of recent manufacture, I get the distinct feeling that the manufacturers of today are perfectly content, nay, willing, to be mere junk peddlers. Why the aversion to just doing it right the first time?

Love the signature, BTW. :)

[45 2.1]

Yeah, well, that's a bolt-gun. Totally different animal.

You said 44 Mag, nothing about the guns chambering it. There are many calibers out there that have undeserved poor reputations. Put them in a well put together gun and they shine. It would sure help if they had a 1:20 twist and a barrel with a maximum groove diameter of 0.432" though, wouldn't it. Seems like these guys just won't learn.

[45 2.1]

This is the levergun forum, no?

Rest assured that there are leverguns out there (yep, i've got one left, that is because it does shoot like that) that will do the same thing, they just aren't Marlins.

[S.R.Custom]

D'oh! Where'd my post go? Oh well...


Rest assured that there are leverguns out there (yep, i've got one left, that is because it does shoot like that) that will do the same thing, they just aren't Marlins.

And that's what I'm on about. You seem to have one of those Unicorns... :mrgreen:

Meanwhile, Winchester is closing plants, Marlin had to sell out to Remington, and S&W's stock price has lost 84% of its value in the past six months. Indeed... why won't they learn?

But now I'm just on a quality rant, and not adding to the original topic, so I'll shut up.

[45 2.1]

And that's what I'm on about. You seem to have one of those Unicorns... :mrgreen: And very hard to find also.

Meanwhile, Winchester is closing plants, Marlin had to sell out to Remington, and S&W's stock price has lost 84% of its value in the past six months. Indeed... why won't they learn? There is hope, just not too much. Ruger (I think) at least turned out a 1:20 twist.

But now I'm just on a quality rant Not a thing wrong with that, it would help if the gun makers would turn out the right thing and then they wouldn't be closing things., and not adding to the original topic, so I'll shut up. No need to do that either, I was having a good time.

[pumpguy]

Rest assured that there are leverguns out there (yep, i've got one left, that is because it does shoot like that) that will do the same thing, they just aren't Marlins.

This is my 11th Marlin and the first one I have had this kind of trouble with. I'll slug the bore and try to load them fairly slowly and see what I get. I like to tinker with loads and such as much as the next guy, but, geez, how hard is it to engineer a gun that will shoot half way decently out of the box???[smilie=1:

[longbow]

pumpguy:

I have an old 1894 Marlin .44 mag with 1:38 microgroove rifling. I have never had any luck at all with the Lyman 429421. They don't feed worth c**p even seated deep to meet OAL requirements and I have never gotten decent accuracy from them. I have had far more success with a home made round nose flatpoint.

Also, I read on the Marlin Owners site that many Marlins have tight spots under the sight dovetails so I slugged my bore and sure enough. I hand lapped mine to remove the tight spots. Less leading and better accuracy. Fire lapping should also work but be gentle, there is not much rifling there if microgroove.

Mine is about 0.432" in the grooves so I need a large boolit. In all fairness my 429421 is a lttle undersize but I really dislike the design for the Marlin anyway so I just don't use it. Round nose flat point or truncated cone work just fine.

Maybe you should get hold of Ranchdog as he seems to do well with Marlins ad has a line of moulds devoted to Marlins. Whatever you do with cast though I suggest staying with 240 to 270 gr. as I can't get anything heavier (longer) to stabilize - even "J" bullets at 300 gr. were a no go. 265 gr. and under do well in my gun, just not Keith style. Some others eem to have success with heavy boolits but I will stick with 265 gr. and under.

Longbow

[pumpguy]

Thanks for the heads up Longbow. I never even thought to check Ranch Dogs sight. At this point, I am frustrated enough to try anything.

[Bass Ackward]

For years the praise was for these Marlins. Everyone defying physics and shooting 300 grain plus bullets accurately. Now we have a rash of guns that can't seem to handle 240 / 250 class projectiles.

The 38 twist was made for 200 grain bullets. My recommendation would be to try something around that weight and see if you can stabilize those. If so, then you have a better idea what mold range to look at.

But jumping from bullet design to bullet design of the same weight when each design shoots well at 50 yards but then craps at 100, is just a waste of mold money if stabilization, or the lack of it, is the real issue.

[lovedogs]

Maybe some of you have read about the small difficulties I had with my new (last year) 1894 Cowboy .44. Even after Marlin re-barreled it the bore was out of spec at .4315 in. All I had on hand was a .430 sizer. Using a Saeco 250 RNFPGC I loaded a good charge of H110 for a vel. of just over 1800 FPS and "Bingo"... I got MOA accuracy out to 250 yds. I can't see shooting it any farther than that so was satisfied. Their 1:38 twist should stabilize up to about 265 gr. bullets. My "250's" drop out at about 243 Gr. and cast with #2 alloy I can't see why I'd need more. If I want more power I'll go to the .45-70. Unless you have a pure junk bbl. I believe if you finally find the right diet for your Marlin it'll shoot and do it well. It just seems that some about drive us nuts before we find what it needs to shoot well. I guess I got lucky with mine. It also shoots jacketed real well if I keep the speed up. And with the outsized bbl. it doesn't seem to get too much pressure. It sure knocks the snot out of a deer!

[runfiverun]

you guys dont think maybe the guys at the marlin factory knew about the sale to rem
just a bit before we did.
i know the guys at winchester did!!
but i don't blame anybody about complaining about quality!!!
when you pay a weeks or more pay for something with @ 15 parts there should be some
quality
come on i am sure they aren't eye-ballin these parts are they?

maybe we can get hornady to do a 44mag marlin oversize?
or they could call it the micro-groovelution

[45r]

Sell the 44 and get a 357CB.Mine has shot half inch 3 shot groups at 50 yards and that is good enough for a lot of what I would do with a little levergun and no recoil.It has never done much worse than inch and a half at 50 yards.I think it would do around 2 to 4 inch at a 100 yards but haven't got around to trying that yet.I found H-110 and mag primers to work best.

[miestro_jerry]

If I was to get a lever gun in 44 caliber, I would get a 444 Marlin. I own a 1895 in 45-70 and it does really well with many different bullets weights. Plus it does extremely well with Ranch Dogs, 45 350 grain bullet.

Jerry

[pumpguy]

I have the 444 and the 45 70. Love them both, but, wanted the 1894 for its lightness and small size. I will conquer this gun. It's just going to take time and lots of shooting.

[Starrbow]

If you want that 1894 to shoot hardcasts bullets in 44mag, you need to
"fill the throat" why they have such big throats who knows. Our two 1894's takes 433/.434 bullets.

[JIMinPHX]

I’ve had pretty good luck with the .44 mag in a rifle once I figurred out what it liked. Things got off to a rocky start with factory ammo giving me 8-10” patterns at 50 yards. Handloads with fast powders like Bullseye & 231 didn’t do real well either. Once I discovered heavy loads of H-110 that all changed. I’ve gotten down to 1.5” groups at 50 yards with iron sights using both 240-grain & 300-grain flat points. The 300s print quite a bit lower on the target but the group size is just as small. I didn’t realize that I was capable of shooting that well with iron sights.

[jlchucker]

Instead of those heavier bullets, it might be worth trying the Lyman 429215 gas check bullet, which casts out at 210 grains or so. I have great luck with this bullet behind 20 grains of 2400 out of a Winchester 94 trapper and and EMF model 92 rifle. Cast from wheelweights cut with about 10 percent pure lead, I size mine .429 and they group as well or better than the 429244's. No problem at all plinking at broken pieces of clay pigeons scattered around on the 100 yard berm at my club's range.

[Just Duke]

I had the Win Trapper 44 Mag and shot RCBS 250 GC grain cast half WW and half Lino with both 2400 and H110 and had smokin results. (1990) I chased a can until my shoulder hurt at 100 yards. I never printed it on paper for it was just a close in gun. The only complaint I have about it is it takes 1 1/2 hours to clean fully.
The gun did have timing problems with the elevator when I got it used and I and sent it back and described to them how to correct for it.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Wow! I must be very lucky when it comes to 44-caliber rifles.

I've got a Marlin 1894 stainless in 44 Magnum that shoots cloverleafs with cast boolits both hot loads and light loads.

Also have an old Ruger 44 Semi-Auto carbine with factory peep sight that shoots even better than the Marlin. (Only bad thing is, I have to use jacketed due to the style of gas system it uses...) My buddy who shoots rifles much better than me, shot nearly a one-hole group at 50 yards with this carbine and 210gr Remington JHPs handloaded with AA#9.

Also have a 444 that shoots good with jacketed. (I haven't fooled around with cast in it much, but that will be rectified come nicer weather now that I have my Boomer Mikey 285gr(+) RNFPGC mould.)

Also shot a few other 44 Mags that have been great grouping rifles at the local cowboy match. (We were ringing the 100 yard 8" gong every time. This ain't saying much, until you consider that was with the mouse-fart cowboy loads...)

[yarro]

They Browning copy of the 1892 in 44 Mag that I had shot real well. I kick myself for selling it, but I needed the money at the time for another gun. My Marlin in .44Mag shot OK, but was finicky when it came to bullets and loads. I really hate the microgroove barrels. My brother's 444 Marlins and .45-70 Marlin both shoot real well. I have been loving my Uberti 1873 in .357 Mag. I have one sitting at my FFL in .44-40. Should do well on hogs and medium sized deer.

-Yarro

[seabreeze133]

Have to say I like my 1972 vintage 444S. Had to run JB bore paste through it many times to clean it up, slick it up and remove the tight spots. But......52 grains H335, Bearrtooth 290 gr boolit sized .432, and a cheap scope will put 5 shots in .375" at 50 yds off a bench. Real regular. But ya gottal like recoil. No problem w/1:38 twist if ya drive em hard.

Also found that 32 gr H4227 and a Sierra 220 grain works real well.

:o)

Don