red dot in 9mm

[twc1964]

Hey guys, im probably going to come into some red dot in the near future. I load a lot of 9mm and 45acp, what can i expect as far as velocity and accuracy in these using a lee 120tc and the lee 230tc boolits. Right now i use wsf in both and its super, but winchester powders are a bit hard to find. Ive never used red dot before but have used w231 and unique in these calibers. Just wanting to get a feel for it thru the always helpfull crew here. Thx as always.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've used it for thousands of mid-range 9mm with the Lee 120 gr TC. My Dillon 550 does not meter as consistently as my RCBS uniflow for these small charges, but still adequate.

[freebullet]

Red dot is garbage it blows up 9mm and leads 45, you should send it to me for proper disposal.

[twc1964]

Well charlie, id like to run my 9's at around 1100 fps . I like to have nearly factory velocities in most of my ammo. Every once in a while i will makesome mousefart loads for the kids, but for me, i like em near full power. Can this happen with this powder or will i have to use it for the lighter loads?

[trapper9260]

I use it for my Short 9mm also for some others also.

[xacex]

Loaded several thousand with red dot. 4 grains with a mihec 125 grain hollow point does the trick for me. The SD is high, but what do you expect from a large flake powder. My 9mm AR eats them like candy.

[twc1964]

Sure thing freebullet, lol . Seriouly though, i believe i can make some decent loads with it after browsing many sites and studying load data. My 9mm loads are short because my glock likes em that way, about 1.085 oal. Il just back way down and work up to the desired outcome. Something to keep me occupied on the weekends. Thx all

[John Boy]

Back to you ... Hey, twc from one of the guys...
Got a browser on your computer? The key words are '45ACP loads' and guess what?
http://www.reloadammo.com/45loads.htm
A little self help goes a long ways saving bandwidth[smilie=1:

[twc1964]

Johnboy, if my questions annoy you, im sorry but i was trying to get real world experience from folks here. You can read load data all day but nothing replaces actual experience. As said, i have no experience with this powder so questions were in order.

[mozeppa]

john boy send me your addy...i'll send you some MORE free bandwidth.

really! free!

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Just like xacex, I use 4.0 gr Red Dot. 3.8 didn't always cycle all pistols. There isn't much different than what I call this load and full power. The spread in 9mm is relatively small if it will cycle all pistols.

[John Boy]

twc ... MD Smith's Reloading Pages IS real life experiences. Much data there that you will not find on vendor's web pages ... but all on one link for many calibers.
If it makes you happy, I am shooting the 200gr H&G-68 SWC with 4.4gr of Red Dot so no help with your 230's.
You might want to bookmark MD Smith's site for future reference and look up 9mm's for Red Dot there. Sorry, I am using other powders for the 9mm
And let me repeat again - self help goes a long ways instead of Hey guys!

[tazman]

According to an Alliant manual from 2001, a load of 4.5 grains RED DOT with a 125 grain lead boolit gives 1165 fps at an OAL of 1.15 in 9mm. This is listed as a max load.
In 45ACP 4.0 grains RED DOT with a 230 grain cast boolit gives 810fps at an OAL of 1.19. This is listed as a low pressure target load, well under max pressure.

[twc1964]

Hmmm, arent forums for the exchange of knowledge and ideas? Experienced folks sharing with the others that ask for help? Later folks like myself will be able to share knowlege learned with others. We all learn every day and can contribute more as time goes on. Yes, i know all about the various data sites but you cant carry on a conversation with a website. Ymmv

[twc1964]

Thx tazman. Looks like i can easily use it in both . Il just work it up and see what i see. I already know that rd works in 38-357,so it can be a jack of all trades, at least for most of what i load.

[Cmm_3940]

I loaded a few hundred 45ACP with Red Dot when powder was hard to find. It's a big flake powder, which is inconvenient in a powder this fast when a couple tenths makes a BIG difference in pressure/velocity. My Dad cracked a case head once loading Red Dot in his RL550B; the only time he ever had it happen, so he won't use it in pistol cartridges. I used an electronic trickler for every charge when I used it and had no problems. It's the right burn speed and performs well, it just isn't as convenient as Bullseye, W231, AA#2, etc. etc. etc... FWIW, I found 5gr of Red Dot with a Lee 452-230-TC to be a bit hot. I wish I had a chrono so I could be more specific.

[twc1964]

Thx cmm, i will be careful. Thx for your input. Im gonna give it a try.

[tazman]

I have never loaded red dot myself except in shotgun years ago. That's why I quoted the manual.
I have used the data in that manual for a number of different powders that are no longer listed on the web sites and they work just fine.
Here is a link to many of the older manuals that list powders that are sometimes different than what you would find now.
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/default.html

This is the link to the specific manual I quoted.
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Alliant_2001.pdf

[freebullet]

I tried!

I'd work up to that 4gr in the 9. Mine will function at 3.4gr and is very quiet with the mp125hp

[twc1964]

Thx all for your info and input. I will give it a try in the nine and if it doesnt work for me, then itl work in my 357 bh fine. If this powder shortage would be done with id be getting my w-231 and wsf. I use wsf in both 9's and 45's with great sucess and w-231 is a tack driver in 38spl. I guess i have to keep checking the online purveyors until it pops up.

[twc1964]

Thx all for the input. Guess il give it a try. Start low and work up as always. Wish wsf and 231 werent so darned hard to get, but oh well.

[Certaindeaf]

Red Dot has been my mainstay pistol and plinker rifle (Google "The Load") powder for many decades. I've been using it in all the common handgun calibers and only use like 2400 etc. for stomping magnum loads (rarely). It's a great powder and there's plenty of proven data out there for almost every cartridge.

[twc1964]

Certaindeaf, i have been doing a bit of research on other forums and find that your results mirror many other folks thoughts on rd. Im thinking that if my 3br measure works fine with unique, it oughta do fine with rd. Just have to make sure i do an occasional weighing of charges to keep it honest.lol. thx bud

[6.5marinediesel]

I know I'm a newbie with not much experience. But I asked alot of question about Red Dot cause it was the only thing I could get A hold of. I start at 3.7 grains worked up to 4.0 grains. 4 grains felt really close to factory ammo. 3.7 grains on the other hand did have a slightly less recoil in my 92 without short stroking. I dont have a way to measure speed but after a few hundred rounds down range. All of witch function flawlessly. I think ill keep as a good load for 9mm
I should mention I was using 115 grain copper plated boolits.

Pistols used: Taurus PT 92, Karh CM9, and S&W shield.

[twc1964]

Thx for the info marindiesel, im going to be using with both 115gr jacketed and 120gr lee tc boolits that are pc'd. My jacketed ate loaded to 1.150 and lead at 1.085. Gonna have to work both of em up from scratch i guess.

[scattershot]

I use 4.0 Red Dot with any 124-25 grain bullet I can find in 9mm, for about 1050 fps. I use the same charge in 45ACP with a 200 grain bullet. If you can find HP38, it's the same powder as 231.

good luck!

[Treeman]

Ditto to what scattershot wrote. Red dot is great stuff. Some fret over how it meters.....I don't have a problem with it until charges are below 3 grains. I like the bulky stuff-helps preclude double charging.

[twc1964]

Scattershot, i have been searching the web for either hp38 or w-231. Im wanting to buy an 8lb jug but cant find either. Il keep searching, if u see any online please toss me a pm. Thx bud. Treeman, yeah, bulky powder doesnt bother me much , as long as it measures right. Ive found with my measure, if i feel it bind i just dump that charge and move on. Works fine. Thx for the input.

[Certaindeaf]

Just be thankful you don't have to dick around with green dot or blue dot in the 9. Yea they "work" but what a questionable bother.

[twc1964]

Certaindeaf, i know whatcha mean. However, i do have a load using gd that works real well, really accurate if a bit dirty. What the heck, i dont mind scrubbing down the hardware after an outing. Take care.

[QuickRick]

I like Red Dot a lot and find it to be a very versatile powder for handgun loads. I get good accuracy/function with several different 9s using the same Lee 120 TC bullet. My only issue has been powder bridging when loading on my Lee Loadmaster progressive. I now attach a little one cell LED light to the side of my Loadmaster at the crimping station. Makes it easy to spot a case with a low or high powder charge before I seat the bullet. I like Red Dot enough to tolerate that slight inconvenience.

[Certaindeaf]

It always pays to eyeball the powder in the case.. regardless of what kind.

[newton]

I have used Red Dot in the past for these two calibers, and with these two boolits. I will have to see what the load data I have is, but I have not shot the 45acp loads in an auto gun. The 9mm I have, in three different guns. A couple different Rugers, and a CZ75. The loads in the CZ were some of the most accurate I have ever shot in a autoloader.

If that's what I had, I would not hesitate one minute to work up a load. I just happen to have more Unique on hand than anything else. But I have my feelers out for a few other powders, Red Dot being one, and whichever I end up getting I'll be working up loads for it.

Sad that you cannot just buy some powder to try loads anymore, now you try loads with the powder you buy. Whoever said this shortage was not going to last long was not thinking very clearly....hopefully it ends soon.

[Handloader109]

I'll burn a bit more bandwidth, btw, red dot is not listed for the 9mm on the website listed...
4gr for my Lee 125gr at 1.070 oak, and 4.3gr with Berry's 115 gr plated at 1.12oal. I like Red Dot and have used a pound in past year with a couple more on the shelf.

[twc1964]

Thx all for the info. I was doing a quick inventory of my powder stash and found about a half pound of it apparently given to me by a friend several yrs ago. Now i can do some testing for myself. Its amazing what you find sometimes.

[pacomdiver]

I was just at a local gunshop today, there certainly wasn't a shortage there. they had a 4 shelf rack full of all the common powders, varget, hp38,etc a **** load of imr powders, 4064, 4320, 4227, 4831, 3031, 4350, 4895, 7828sc, are some I remember, a lot of alliant ones including bullseye, unique, 700x, arcomp, lilgun, herco , rl15, rl17, rl22, and 3 or 4 Winchester powders including 760, 748 ,231 and 732, a lot of hodgden ones including benchmark, varget, h1000, 4350 and a bunch of 4 and 8lbers like 4064, arcomp, unique, benchmark, 700x, 4227, 4350, ar comp and several others.they had shelfs full of all different primers at reasonable prices

I picked up a lb of bullseye for 23.85

[pacomdiver]

you can see the shelf of primers in the background. there were 10 4 and 8lbers on top shelf above dies also. win powders on bottom, hodgden on next up, imr above that with some hodgden mixed in and alliant on top shelf with dies
128411
eta: pics or it didn't happen right?

[twc1964]

Pacomdiver, wow! I wish my local purveyors had a stock like that. Im seeing gunbot is showing several pistol powdes the last few days where there were almost none just a few weeks ago. I think things are coming around. Lets all hope so.

[pacomdiver]

I usually buy 8lbers, but I wanted to try bullseye for some 9 and 45 cast boolits, so I bought a lb

[pacomdiver]

for you local guys, that's a pic at sarco in easton

[Tom W.]

Red Dot does well in both my 9mm and my .45 altho it seems to be rather smokey.....