Noe 453423 rg2

[DrCaveman]

I sorta hijacked another thread regarding my difficulties with this mould, so here is a new discussion

I am having a very difficult time keeping the mould up at proper temp while still getting the boolits to come out without ripped HPs or bent (severely!) base driving bands

So far, the only routine that is working goes like this:

1. Get mould really hot. After 20 minutes on hot plate at max, dunk in melt for 20 seconds

2. Pour into mould. Sprue puddle is very liquid

3. Let sprue cool for maybe 30 seconds til edges are soldified but not the middle

4. Open sprue plate

5. Set on damp rag to further soldify boolits, about 10 seconds

6. Open handles, boolits stick cleanly in left half of mould.

7. Invert mould, boolits generally fall away from left half of mould

8. Tap moderately hard on handle hinge, boolits drop, very frosted

9. Dunk mould in melt for about 20 seconds, then repeat from step 2 onward

This is giving me a very slow, but CONSISTENT pile of boolits, with square drive bands and bases. I heated the pins with torch, dabbed lucas 2-cycle oil, smoked cavities. Still could not manage to pour two consecutive times without re-dunking to get temp back up.

Ambient temp in garage was about 46* tonight. Not very cold at all.

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Is this about par for a square lube groove HP mould like this?

Mould temp any lower gives several rounded drive band edges, and boolits will not stay with left side of mould therefore tear out the HP or rip the base drive band

Thanks for any firsthand help with this boolit profile in HP form

[ballistim]

I've had a tough time with the RG2 HP NOE molds, others swear by them. I buy solid NOE molds & really like them (especially brass ones), for HP molds I prefer the brass MiHec Cramer HP molds. I've had the same problem with the hanging up & breaking the bullet at the HP, One mold I found that it was the pin getting stuck in the slot when the mold was opened and not sliding freely, so I smoothed it up a bit and it worked better but still occasionally hangs up. While I like HP's I'm starting to prefer solids for many of my guns, mostly rifles.

[Beagle333]

Another thing to check, especially with these square grooved molds, is to make sure there are absolutely no burrs on the "sticky" side of your mold. Go over the edges of the cavities (of a cool mold) with a Qtip and make sure they are smooth and do not have any burrs or rough spots to grab and hold the boolit and make it tear as it comes out of the cavities.

[DrCaveman]

I should add that i am casting this for my 1911 and 45 colt cimmaron. Figured it might be great for both, or at least one of the two.

Deep HP drops around 228 grains, great for 45 acp. Solid nose drops about 240, great for saa level 45 colt. Havent tried cup point yet, maybe that is good compromise for both guns?

Ballistim- it is unfortunate to hear that. At least i can do solids with this mould too

Beagle- that is an excellent idea, and makes great sense to explain the ripping. Ill see what i can find and report back. Thanks!

[DrCaveman]

There seemed to be some snagging of the qtip when i examined the cavities for burrs. I did a quick comet lapping of each cavity

This is a 2-cavity aluminum mould

Tried the cup point (very shallow hp) and it worked AWESOME!

Swapped out the pins while the mould was hot, with some careful plier work... Got the deep hp pins nice and hot with the torch...

Mould still performs about the same. Simply opening the handles guarantees a tear. Some gentle tapping on hinge bolt allows boolits to come loose, and they fall off the pins with another few taps. Cadence is still too slow to allow mould to stay up at temp. I get one good drop, then a pile of boolits with rounded edges and uneven hp lips

Oh, i was wrong about the weights i mentioned. With my allow, the deep HPs are about 232 lubed, and the cup points are about 242 naked. I guess the solid nose boolits were closer to 250, but i didnt write it down

[SwedeNelson]

DrCaveman

"Simply opening the handles guarantees a tear"

Try tapping the hinge bolt on the handles as you open the mould
A light tap, tap, tap as you open the blocks
"Simply opening" doesn't work all that good.

Shouldn't need to "Dip mould blocks" to get them hot
Room temp at 46F is not as good as 68F or more - get more problem reports in cold weather

It is a great bullet for both 45 Colt and APC

Feel free to give me a call if you would like
801 377-7289

Bullet maker, maker
Swede Nelson

[cainttype]

As Al said, loosely holding the mould inverted and a tap (or 2) on the hinge of your handles prior to opening will often free everything up like magic.
I use quite a few of the RGs in both 2 and 4 cavity configurations with none of the problems you're describing since adopting the tap-before-opening technique. You'll likely find an easy to keep rhythm without all the re-heating work you're doing.
Let us know how it works for you.

[cainttype]

Another thing to be aware of is that the pins will seat differently if you close the mould inverted compared to upright. The pins have to have clearance to slide out on the guides, the difference in your hollow point depth will be that clearance amount.
If you carefully close your moulds in the upright position every time you will avoid this variation.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Snipped...
Swapped out the pins while the mould was hot, with some careful plier work... Got the deep hp pins nice and hot with the torch.

I've found that mounting pins and associated hardware (whether the NOE RG type or the Mihec style. The pins must be installed at room temp...and must move freely at room temp as well as at casting temp. I've found this isn't as easy as it sounds and can be a little tricky and may take some trial and error.

[DrCaveman]

Swede, thanks for the offer to call you. Ill keep working at things, and call if i cant figure it out. I have indeed settled on the tap tap tap as the mould opens..if the boolit is free of each half of the mould, the boolit drops nicely

Problem so far is that the use of the deep HP results in a lot of sticking to one half of the mould or the other, it varies. Using the cup point or flat tip results in no problems, and mould stays at temp better.

I just had a very encouraging session with the cup point, during which nearly all the boolits jumped off the pin as i was tapping hinge bolt, and they all came out blem-free and mould stayed at temp the whole time. So i need to try a few more times with the deeper hp, see how things go with a little different finesse

Please dont misunderstand... I am really happy with the mould, and the flat point boolits are wonderful. Just trying to get the hang of HP pouring

[TXGunNut]

Cup points do sound like fun, thanks for posting this thread because I've just signed up for my first RG mould. I didn't know about the tap trick but will employ it. Hope things continue to improve with you and your mould, DrCaveman.

[GLL]

What alloy are you using ? Experiment with a binary alloy such as 20:1 (no Sb) and see if that helps reduce the HP tearing in a very hot mold.

I have both the RG2 and a 5-cavity solid in this same mold design but have none of the problems you have mentioned. Try letting the spru cool until it is completely solid and tap a couple times before opening. You have a very hot mold and may be opening too soon for fragile bullets that are not completely crystallized.

The 453423 is a GREAT mold ! The bullet design has been my favorite for .45 AutoRim and .45 Colt ever since I first read Charles' [Char-Gar] article.

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/cba.htm

iPhone snapshot I just took of 20:1 alloy bullets that are still warm ! :)
http://www.fototime.com/C391BDB15DBBE2B/standard.jpg

Jerry

[DrCaveman]

GLL, come to think of it, the most success i had pouring the deep hp was my first session, which used pure lead plus 50/50 solder...overall ratio was probably 25:1 pb/sn

My subsequent attempts had a little bit of WW mixed in, not much, but a little. I was seeing a lot of nose deformation when seating boolits, and the lee hardness tester showed < 8 bhn...it was off the charts soft. I think i may have been getting lazy with my fluxing, and losing some tin to oxdation while casting, who knows what the actual proportions were by the time they were loaded

I got to shoot these yesterday morning in the 1911 and my cimmaron 45 lc. Sweet mercy, they shot awesome!

The accuracy in the 45 colt was better than any load ive tried before, that was the solid nose (~250 gr) in front of 9 gr unique. I had three consecutive shots touching at 25 yds...that is my new best :). The light load was 6 gr red dot behind the deep hp (230 gr) and it was mellow and shot a little lower, but easy 1" grouping at 15 yds which is good for me

In the acp, i loaded the deep hp in front of 4 gr bullseye, it hit about the same point as my h&g 68 target load, and felt the same too. Nary a hiccup with 4 different magazine makes

Thanks to Char-Gar for his extensive writing about this boolit. Thanks to swede and al at NOE for offering this great mould. Even if i never get the hang of the deep hp, i am a happy camper

[DrCaveman]

It took a few more tries, but i think i figured out how to pour good hp boolits finally.

I was having trouble keeping my NOE mould at good temp while casting with the deep hollow point pin. The flat nose and cup point were working great

First thing i did was cast about 300 cup point keepers, over three sessions. This probably helped the mould fully season and thermally set things in stability

My last three sessions were with the deep hp. I let the mould heat a bit longer than usual on the hotplate, while resting on its end, with the sprue plate open so its edge also touched the plate. About 25 minutes on "high"

No extra heating of the pins, i started casting. Quickly dumped the first 4 pours as the sprue set up too quick. The next four, i poured an especially large, overflowing sprue and cut it as first sign of setting, maybe 4 seconds, then let the boolits sit in mould for another 3-4 seconds. Discarded boolits into sprue pan

BINGO next pour, the sprue takes 3-5 seconds to set, break it, wait another few seconds, then....

...tap tap tap tap with handles closed but not held firmly closed
...tilt mould to the left about 30*, tap tap tap tap, mould opens sligtly, boolit breaks from left side of mould
...tilt mould slightly to the right about 30*, tap tap tap tap, boolit breaks from the right side of the mould
...continue turning mould TO THE RIGHT (clockwise) and boolits are dangling from the hp pins as mould becomes inverted

...shake shake and two nice boolits fall onto the towel

Repeat

This is working for me, im getting probably 3 to 5 pours a minute, and the results have been good. I still manage to bust out a few hp's if i hurry too much, but the average results have been quite acceptable for my shooting skill.

I also decided that a little bit of rounding on the occasional driving band is not the end of the world. About 8 out of 10 look a lot better after cooling anyway