Leadhead500 & Hogtamer xchange loads

[Hogtamer]

After seeing Leadhead500's results with those big round balls we struck up an exchange - he sent me some of his Lyman .735 balls and components to build his loads and I sent him some Hubel sabots with Lyman old style .460 minies plus components as well as .600 balls and wads to put together some 2-ball loads I've had success with. You can see his loads and results in his thread. Well, it only took me one load cutting 2 different wads to decide I was too lazy for that so I made a couple of substitutions using his idea. Let me tell you that Mountaineer is straight up. I loaded the same hull, a 3" Remington Nitro with a Fed 209-A primer, and since my total ejecta is about 1 1/2 oz I subbed 33 gr Steel (instead of Longshot) and an x12x BPI gas seal compressed tightly on the powder. Then 2 - 1/4" felt wads, an inverted Helix Cushion Driver 18 wad (also from BPI) with petals removed. I sprinkled a pinch of GRITS in the inverted gas seal (longbows's idea but he used vastly inferior cream of wheat!) and eased that big old ball, sprue up in the "cup". Got a perfect 6 pt crimp. I resisted the urge to file that big sprue off - honestly don't see how that thing flies - and let 3 rip at 50 yds this afternoon.
That's a dime for reference. Ok, that not one hole but it is 3, two went in the same hole on the right. The components pictured, though slightly compresse can be used again. The balls are embedded in a big oak tree. Shot off my butt across the arm of a chair, so one hole is entirely possible out of my rifled 870 Express, scoped with same optics as Leadhead. The recoil is manageable too. We will continue this comparison of loads and guns on this thread but Leadheads's loads are absolutely a winner. (edit: target pic oriented sideways for some reason)

[leadhead 500]

That is a outstanding group! When my powder gets here I am going to load up some of the sabots and will post pics. Just be careful with those big round balls, they are some shooters and you will know nothing else.

[longbow]

Nice! I do like the big 'ol round balls too.. but I think my northern feelings are hurt by Hogtamer's slandering of COW! Having said that I have never tried grits so... One day!

Next time we go to the Outer Banks I'll pick up some grits and smuggle them back to Canada.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

COW and Grits?!?! Is this the muzzleloaders forum? Does the butter and runny egg yoke (required ingredients for grits) affect the burn rate of the powder?;)

BB

[longbow]

Keep your powder dry BB! A good gas seal takes care of that! The COW/grits and butter, runny egg yoke or whatever just goes along for the ride and makes the ball happy... and we all want happy balls right?;)

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Shot today to get a better feel for the "punkin ball" loads as above, except used 34 grns Steel. Here's the 50 yd target. The first 2 shots took out the center, 1 hole, the 3rd shot was 2" right. Then I shot 3 times @ 100 yds, results scattered ~ 8" low, not a group. Then shot 3 hubel sabot loads and got a 3" group but 3" low @ 50 yds. Hmm, elevation was perfect last time I shot @ 75 yds. Then shot 3 sabots @ 100 yds and what the heck? Minute of TV! Wuz goin on? Moved scope up 24 clicks and shot 3 punkin balls again @ 100, elevation good but still not a group. So back to 50 yds (same picture) and shot 3 more, one big ragged hole circled in blue. 3 more sabots @ 50 yds and awful! I thought I had that load down perfectly. I did "tweak" it by shortening oal of minie to get what I though was perfect fit on lastest casting using recylcled trap rang shot. I will be interested to see how Leadhead's gun shoots the same bullet. I am pretty frustrated by the lack of consistency with these sabot loads. Some are diamonds, some are stone and I can,t put my finger on the difference. I then unloaded 6 - 2 ball loads I've worked up and they are awesome @ 50 yds. Leadhead will compare those too. I haven't cleaned the barrel lately and I'm wondering if I picked up a little leading that cause my sabot loads to misbehave.

[bikerbeans]

Hog,

The inconsistent nature of home grown slugs is why I always take at least one dialed in CF rifle to the range with my slug guns. That way I know I will have at least one decent target when I go home.

You are dealing with a lot of variables and small differences can have big affects on accuracy.

BB

[Hogtamer]

funny you should mention that! Somebody was talkin ugly in the factory rifle forum about .270s
yesterday and prompted me to pull out my old A-bolt and some 130 jacketed bullets. Oops on the first one, forgot what a really good trigger felt like but the next 4 were in Quarter size @ a 100 yds. Spread out to a silver dollar @ 200. I can't tell you how full of **** that guy is. And the Redfield 3x9 that sits on it is older than most of this blackgun generation. "Never said I couldn't shoot one, just never had much use for one.". Quigley

[leadhead 500]

I loaded some of the sabots with the Lyman and shot them thru my Savage 210 @ 50 yards load was Remington 3 inch nitro hull, 38 grains of steel, (2) 1/4 inch felt, and the sabot and then fold crimp it shot a 4.5 inch 3 shot group. The next load was Remington 3 inch nitro hull, 40 grains of steel, ballistic products flex seal, (2) 1/4 inch cards, AA 12 gas seal inverted, and the .735 round ball with the sprue up and shot a 1 3/4 inch group at 75 yards

[leadhead 500]

I did notice when I shot the sabots out of my Savage 210 which has a .729 bore that they was dicarding at different times, shooting them at 50 yards I seen some of the sabots open up and drop and hit the ground at about 20 yards and others would make it to the target. Not sure why they was discarding at different times. As for the round ball loads I think the problem with them being inconsistent is due to using the felt wads in the column. My personal thoughts are if you swap out those felts with 1/4 inch cards things will get a lot better and the groups will stay uniform. Every round ball load I have loaded seems to like a firm wad column

[leadhead 500]

Another question I have is how much wad pressure are you using on the loads with the steel powder and is it consistent on every shell? Just a thought I was wondering if you are getting uniform ignition on the loads? The groups I have been shooting with the .735 round balls have 40# of wad preasure.

[Hogtamer]

the round ball is the clear winner. My target is five balls in 3 holes, hard to beat. Those sabots come out spinning like a helicopter blade and no telling where they wind up when they catch the wind. I will try the hard cards instead of the felt next time and try to figure why the sabot loads went south.

[leadhead 500]

I think things will get a lot better for you if you change out the felts with the cards I sent with the balls. As for the sabots, not sure what's going on with the groups not being consistent keep us posted on them

[longbow]

Hogtamer:

I found the same thing as leadhead 500 ~ hard card wad column works best for me with the 0.735" round balls. Not sure why but when I tried cushion legs with petals cut off and nitro card wads between cushion leg and ball accuracy was poor and when I tried a plastic gas seal, 1/2" hard card wad, fiber wad (to crush and form to the ball), ball, accuracy was poor again. Returned to plastic gas seal, 1/2" hard card wad and IIRC a cut in half hard card wad then ball accuracy returned.

For some reason the 0.735" balls liked a very solid wad column which surprised me since they are bore diameter. These loads also shot very well in a rifled Remington 870.

My only complaint is that I don't like making up "custom" wad columns (just plain laziness on my part). However, for hunting loads it really wouldn't matter as you wouldn't be shooting bunches... unless you took up varmint shooting with slugs.

Longbow

[cpileri]

Hey Hogtamer,
you seem to be the point man for trading loads w people "You shoot mine and I'll shoot yours".

Which sounds like alot of fun, BTW!
C-

[Hogtamer]

Carl, you need some of these big round balls! Where you been?

[cpileri]

Im around, still log in to read here everyday. Just between deer season and work etc, I haven't done much load development since the 20ga triball tests; and so I haven't posted much.

I plan to jump back in though.

[Hogtamer]

Cleaned my barrel this evening...Lots of junk came out of the grooves...plastic, I guess and various wad material. No real evidence of lead. We'll see this weekend if that accounts for my loads going south.

[leadhead 500]

Got around to shooting some of Hogtamer's 2 ball loads this afternoon with 33 grains of steel powder. These was shot thru my H&R USH at about 45 yards and this is a outstanding load with a great wad column and would make a great hunting load.

[Hogtamer]

Heap o' lead there! If the left one don't getcha the right one will. That one stout enough for you Mountaineer?

[leadhead 500]

Yes, got plenty enough steam to kill about anything in its path. Great job on the load, this one is a keeper