358 Winchester 41 Grains LVR NOE 360318 Cup HP 2000 fps @ 130 yards

[Djones]

Found this on the off shoulder under the skin. Took out both lungs. 50/50 + 2% Tin. The loaded round in the picture is a 357 magnum for reference. Weighed 239 grains lubed and checked what remains is 222 grains (lost ~7%).

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/30C05B7B-EDB3-400C-819C-E15EDBAF14AE.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/30C05B7B-EDB3-400C-819C-E15EDBAF14AE.jpg.html)

I wasn't planning on taking such a long shot but it was getting close to the end of season. She ran about 40 yards. I was planning on using this load for elk some day, but I think I will go with a flatpoint and a harder alloy for elk. In the end she has been making some great burgers, chili and steak!

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/A6FCEB4B-26D7-45C6-A105-77144FBE882E.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/A6FCEB4B-26D7-45C6-A105-77144FBE882E.jpg.html)

[ballistim]

Nice to see you score with the 358! I imagine it's the same one from your posts on your .358 Savage barrel build.

[Djones]

Nice to see you score with the 358! I imagine it's the same one from your posts on your .358 Savage barrel build.

Yes it is. The rifle is a JES rebore 3 groove 14 twist. Donor rifle was a Savage 11 308.

I forgot to mention that the case is only 1.79" long....you should see the mini shoulder that remains when you trim 358 brass that short!

I am probably going to keep this rifle for next year because the law makers are talking about allowing use to use normal rifle cartridges. I sure would like to keep from having to trim my 358 win, 45-70 and 35 rem to 1.8".

Here is a picture of the target from some load development earlier in the year.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/1AB36D76-1E46-4971-AEA7-834C750DC362.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/1AB36D76-1E46-4971-AEA7-834C750DC362.jpg.html)

This isnt the same bullet but it gives you an idea of how short the neck is.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/9CF8F909-18AC-4433-8FF5-3B701B5EC928.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/9CF8F909-18AC-4433-8FF5-3B701B5EC928.jpg.html)

[ballistim]

I hear you about the 1.8" law, new here in southern MI this year but only for straight wall cartridges so far, used a 77/44 but no chance to shoot one this year, also hunted up north with a 45-70. I'll probably try the shortened 45-70 next year that you posted about if the law here stays the same. I cut the cases & trimmed, need to find someone to shorten my crimp die first though.

[square butte]

Looks like it shed the gas check - That is if there was one to begin with. I was also surprised it was not a pass through - but I don't know how fast it was moving. Would like to see a picture of the boolit (before damage ) with cup point up.

[white eagle]

nice going and close to the road too..

[35remington]

Given the bullet has so much length left the penetration on an apparent broadside shot seems very disappointing unless it was BB gun speed . If that can't go through a broadside deer I am not sure that qualifies as an elk load either.

I would class your penetration as extremely poor. It killed the deer, yeah, but a bullet that retains that much mass and length should not be recovered with a shot in that location. It should easily whiz through.

[badbob454]

it looks to me from the pics to be a 18-20'' of penetration . not bad in my opinion

[35remington]

In a deer with that much bullet shank and retained weight left, that's very poor. If the bullet had been flattened like a pancake it would be acceptable. It isn't.

45 ACP 185 JHP's will go through deer side to side. The utter mystery is why a bullet with much higher before and after impact sectional density and energy did not.

Informed opinion says the observed performance is very sub par.

[Djones]

I hear you about the 1.8" law, new here in southern MI this year but only for straight wall cartridges so far, used a 77/44 but no chance to shoot one this year, also hunted up north with a 45-70. I'll probably try the shortened 45-70 next year that you posted about if the law here stays the same. I cut the cases & trimmed, need to find someone to shorten my crimp die first though.

if indiana changes the laws, I will mail you my shortened Lee fcd.

[Djones]

Looks like it shed the gas check - That is if there was one to begin with. I was also surprised it was not a pass through - but I don't know how fast it was moving. Would like to see a picture of the boolit (before damage ) with cup point up.

Speed from muzzle was around 2000. Distance to target may have been farther than I thought. Maybe 180 yards. I need to get back out there with a range finder.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/D7458025-9C4E-44F7-9FA3-4CD68537948E.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/D7458025-9C4E-44F7-9FA3-4CD68537948E.jpg.html)

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/54BBB6F0-D81C-4FD3-9394-6E996B396357.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/54BBB6F0-D81C-4FD3-9394-6E996B396357.jpg.html)

[ballistim]

if indiana changes the laws, I will mail you my shortened Lee fcd.

Sounds great & I appreciate it, maybe both our states will wise up & make laws that make sense. Thanks!

[Smoke4320]

Looks like great performance to me .. expanded at least 25% over bore dia.. dead deer in short distance
way to go

[jhalcott]

Looks like great performance to me. If I get 20" of penetration I think that is adequate for deer. I have had many pass thru's with similar loads, but it seems SOME deer are tougher than others! Several deer have (caught) the bullet under the off side skin. Some times a rib or other bone gets in the way and really slows the bullet down.

[35 shooter]

Looks like it was a good hunt,good shot, and a nice deer to boot. Congrats! Hope the new laws on length go through for you. Lol i'd hate to have to try and shorten my whelen that much.

[35 shooter]

nice going and close to the road too..
Lol, yep, and all down hill too!:smile:

[taco650]

Speed from muzzle was around 2000. Distance to target may have been farther than I thought. Maybe 180 yards. I need to get back out there with a range finder.



http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/54BBB6F0-D81C-4FD3-9394-6E996B396357.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/54BBB6F0-D81C-4FD3-9394-6E996B396357.jpg.html)

Congrats on getting a tag filled. So even with the shortened neck you still load them to standard length? Also, how do you like the work JES did on your rifle? I've been thinking about get my 30-06 bored out to 35Whelen and talked to JES about it once. Sounded good over the phone but... PM if you have any advice, thanks.

[Yodogsandman]

FIST PUMPS!!! Nice shot! Congrats!

[RugerFan]

Looks like great performance to me .. expanded at least 25% over bore dia.. dead deer in short distance
way to go

Totally agree. Good job!

[ballistim]

Only one "informed opinion" seems to think otherwise..

[35remington]

That other "informed opinion" has a lot of information on cast bullet shot deer to base that opinion on. Something ain't right with the observed performance. And I'm not alone in thinking that as others here also questioned the results observed.

[ballistim]

That other "informed opinion" has a lot of information on cast bullet shot deer to base that opinion on. Something ain't right with the observed performance. And I'm not alone in thinking that as others here also questioned the results observed.

I guess that settles that, I'll just remain with the others that wish to congratulate the OP.

[Certaindeaf]

I wonder what it had slowed down to when it smacked that deer. That's one dead deer and fine shooting! hungry for chili now

[Djones]

I'm going out to my dads today for some goose hunting. I will try to measure the distance the shot was taken. Then I will use the BC and determine impact velocity.

Im thinking this doe just happened to have some stretchy, tough bullet catching skin on her shoulder! No matter what I learned something, had fun doing it and got some great food!

[Djones]

Congrats on getting a tag filled. So even with the shortened neck you still load them to standard length? Also, how do you like the work JES did on your rifle? I've been thinking about get my 30-06 bored out to 35Whelen and talked to JES about it once. Sounded good over the phone but... PM if you have any advice, thanks.

i load the bullet to the length that gives best accuracy. I wouldn't hesitate one second sending a 06 to JES for a rebore. He did an excellent job for me. Very fast turnaround too.

[taco650]

i load the bullet to the length that gives best accuracy. I wouldn't hesitate one second sending a 06 to JES for a rebore. He did an excellent job for me. Very fast turnaround too.

Thanks for the advice on JES!

[missionary5155]

Sounds great & I appreciate it, maybe both our states will wise up & make laws that make sense. Thanks!

Good morning Fellas your states are light years ahead of the "Loons" we have making "Restrictions" from up in Chicago. Maybe with in 10 years of your good working "restrictions" ILLinois will decide it might be safe for the "downstaters" to have those "horrendously powerful" munitions out in the field.
We are still working to get straight wall pistol cartriges allowed in rifles. But the cartridge looks fine and works. Just your range defeated an exit wound. That is a longish shot to me for many rifles. Farthest corn cruncher I have ever popped was at 33 yards. But then I hunt river bottoms where everything is close.
Mike in Peru but in Danville, ILLinois area when up north there.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Nice shot. I wouldn't change a thing.

[Djones]

Well we used a laser range finder and it was a LOT farther than I estimated. Deer was hit at 230 yards from the deer stand. That puts the impact velocity around 1550-1650 from my estimates.

I probably need to get my own range finder since I was so horrible at estimating or try to keep my shots a little closer.

Growing up with a smooth bore 20 gauge over and under with a bead and now using a 358 win is a whole new ball game!

[taco650]

Well we used a laser range finder and it was a LOT farther than I estimated. Deer was hit at 230 yards from the deer stand. That puts the impact velocity around 1550-1650 from my estimates.

I probably need to get my own range finder since I was so horrible at estimating or try to keep my shots a little closer.

Growing up with a smooth bore 20 gauge over and under with a bead and now using a 358 win is a whole new ball game!

Range estimation is a learned art LOL! Even though your shot was about twice as far as you first thought, your success shows your load and rig is working right. Keep up the good work!

[35 shooter]

Djones that turned out to be a really good shot and good boolit performance! Looks like lots of hill and dales where you took that one. If you can't see the ground all the way to the target, range estimation gets much harder for me.
If you don't mind me asking, what lube were you using? Again congrats...good performance all the way around there. Both rifleman and rifle!

[TXGunNut]

Well we used a laser range finder and it was a LOT farther than I estimated. Deer was hit at 230 yards from the deer stand. That puts the impact velocity around 1550-1650 from my estimates. -Djones

That makes sense, seems you were holding a bit high or had some elevation change working for you. In any case she's meat in the freezer and a shot well made, congrats and good eating!

[Djones]

I was using white label BAC.

I aimed about an inch below the top of her back. I had been practicing all summer on an 8" steel plate. I like the 8" diameter plate because it simulates the size of a deer's vitals. I was practicing out to 180 yards but not any farther. All of the shooting definitely boosted my confidence.

[swheeler]

DJ congratulations, eat well:-)!

[outdoorfan]

Well we used a laser range finder and it was a LOT farther than I estimated. Deer was hit at 230 yards from the deer stand. That puts the impact velocity around 1550-1650 from my estimates.

I probably need to get my own range finder since I was so horrible at estimating or try to keep my shots a little closer.

Growing up with a smooth bore 20 gauge over and under with a bead and now using a 358 win is a whole new ball game!

I know I'm late coming into this...

First of all, congrats on your kill! Not easily done.

I have actually chronographed a couple of NOE's 35 caliber rifle designs that are similar to yours, and I've done so at various ranges out to 350 yards. I can say from my experience doing this that your load at 230 yards is probably around 1,350 fps impact. (Published BC's are WAY off much of the time, IMO). The 50-50 alloy (air-cooled) HP'ed allowed it to still open up well. In my opinion, at higher velocity (let's say around 1600-1800 impact), if the nose of that bullet didn't come off quickly, then I'd say the expected penetration would even be less than what you got there.

I agree with 35remington that it should have penetrated a lot more. However, in the real world there are plenty of anomolies, aren't there?!