Single seven Kaboom

[prsman23]

4 rounds.
Federal factory 327. Couldn't eject them. Had to take the cylinder out. Thought t was odd but didn't notice anything out of the ordinary when firing it. Had brought other guns so I set it aside. When I got home and started cleaning I saw that the barrel on the underside had burst open.....
Guess I'll be calling Ruger and federal.



Edit: there was metal blocking the ejection rod. When the cylinder was removed the cases fell out.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/16/8e849bf2489e6019a5ac2d441e2a1d41.jpg

[M-Tecs]

Guessing Ruger will be on the hook for this one. Keep us posted.

[backhoe]

Never saw one exactly like that before,is that the only damage?

[prsman23]

Yeah. That's it. Just kinda peeled open. There is a small bulge where it starts to open up toward the ejector.

[9.3X62AL]

Could you elaborate upon the "Couldn't eject them" information? By this, I'm wondering if brass was pressure-stuck in the charge holes (possible over-pressure/out of spec ammo) or that the ejector rod was simply tied up by the barrel fault and distension. Something is egregiously wrong, certainly--either with the OEM ammo or a seamy barrel. I like and liked the idea of a Ruger Blackhawk or GP-100 in 327 Federal, I wonder if chambering that little flame-thrower in a Single-Seven-sized platform might not be a bit much. I recall some engineering issues with the SP-101s so chambered. My own view is that Ruger made errors by discontinuing their larger-framed revolvers for this caliber. Perhaps their Colt-sized SAA frame might be a better housing for this hot rod.

[dilly]

Is it a squib in front of a full power load that caused the barrel to split like that?

[prsman23]

To elaborate. When I went to remove the cases by way of the ejector rod they wouldn't budge. Any of them. The cylinder rotated. But they couldn't be pushed out of the cylinder with any amount of reasonable force.

I don't think it was a squib. Every round went off without a hitch.

[big bore 99]

Wow... Looks like it was your lucky day, for not getting hurt I mean. Let us know how it works out with Ruger. They have always treated me right.

[prsman23]

Absolutely blessed in that aspect.

To add insult to injury I just sent my brand new never fired charger back to Ruger yesterday :-)

[9.3X62AL]

To elaborate. When I went to remove the cases by way of the ejector rod they wouldn't budge. Any of them. The cylinder rotated. But they couldn't be pushed out of the cylinder with any amount of reasonable force.

I don't think it was a squib. Every round went off without a hitch.

Thank you, sir. This points a little more toward faulty factory ammo. As pressed as Federal and all the other makers have been since the ObamaNation took over, I'm surprised there aren't more instances of faulty ammo hitting the shelves as production is allegedly accelerated to keep up with demand. Not so that you would notice much of an uptick in output, though.

Ruger has a sterling reputation for taking care of their customers via warrantee coverage. I think you will be fine once they become aware of the situation. I think Ruger is your best first call--there is no definite indicia that the ammo was faulty at this point. That sort of question is for the folks wearing propeller hats at Ruger and Federal to hash out.

[Hickok]

Never saw a barrel come apart like that. Almost like a fault line or defect in the metal. Glad you didn't get hurt!

The failure happening at the end of the barrel, I am guessing this is where the pressure would be lowest, seems to point to a defect in the barrel. Just guessing.

[Green Frog]

It looks to me as though there was a fault at the point where the e-rod housing was attached to the barrel. If the screw went in too deep and left a dimple or even a hole, the crack could have started there, couldn't it? Of course as hot as even the factory ammo is designed to be, any minor flaw has the potential to be a fatal flaw. Glad my 327 FM Ruger is built on the Blackhawk platform! ;)

Froggie

[jcren]

Looks like a tight spot, or maybe the bore was undersized or the bullit oversized. Please let us know wheat they find, that is interesting (in a bad way)

[**oneshot**]

OUCH!!!!!! What is sticking out of the split near the cylinder pin?

[freebullet]

Glad you weren't hurt!

I can't wait to see what they say, please keep us posted.

This is one of the reasons I always use new ammo in a new gun. They can't blame me.

[ShooterAZ]

I see a possible recall in either Federal ammo, or Single 7's in the near future. Most likely an ammo problem if I had to guess.

[MSD MIke]

OUCH!!!!!! What is sticking out of the split near the cylinder pin?


Yep, what is that sticking out of the split. My guess is its part of whatever was obstructing the barrel.

Mike

[prsman23]

Yep, what is that sticking out of the split. My guess is its part of whatever was obstructing the barrel.

Mike

Looks like metal from the barrel. It's also what kept me from ejecting the rounds. The rod stopped at that spot. Was kind of in shock of my brand new gun coming apart at the seams (so to speak).

Not my month for Ruger's. Just sent a brand new Charger back to the factory yesterday.

[MSD MIke]

Scary deal, glad you weren't hurt.

Mike

[A pause for the COZ]

Wow!!! I would bet it is a manufacturing error. Make sure you send some of the ammo if you still have some.

Pretty sure they are going to take care of you well. You will get back the best single seven any where.

[country gent]

Was the ammo jacketed? Its not common any more but a jacket may have came off in the barrel leaving an obstrution.

[prsman23]

Was the ammo jacketed? Its not common any more but a jacket may have came off in the barrel leaving an obstrution.

It was jacketed. I've never heard of that. I'll have to do some reading.

[dragon813gt]

And I'm now going to pull down the one box of factory ammo I haven't shot. I see an ammo recall in the future.

[9mmsubgun-m11]

Wow! Be glad you were not damaged. As for this not being your month with Rugers,a lot of brand new Smith&Wesson revolvers are being returned to the mother ship lately for quality control issues. I sent a brand new performance center back in November for a couple issues that should have been corrected upon final inspection if there is still such a thing.

[prsman23]

Wow! Be glad you were not damaged. As for this not being your month with Rugers,a lot of brand new Smith&Wesson revolvers are being returned to the mother ship lately for quality control issues. I sent a brand new performance center back in November for a couple issues that should have been corrected upon final inspection if there is still such a thing.

Tell me about it. The charger I sent back had areas on the receiver that showed the metal in the white, the stock had noticeable tearout from cutting and the bolt had rust on it. How did that pass??? Even if the rust happened after shipping I wouldn't think that would pass. I know they make a lot of guns and some will be clunkers, just had some bad luck this go round!
Oh well. First world problems hard at work again. I'm happy I'm unharmed and have enough expendable income to afford such luxuries. We are all blessed here.

[denul]

I got my seven and a half inch single 7 back from Ruger for the loading gate and chambering the issues mentioned elsewhere, and they appear to have fixed it.I found its chambers to be tighter than the Buckeye 32 h&r I had reamed to 327, and also tighter than my GP-100 in 327.However,it will chamber factory ammunition. In his extensive article in the current Handloader, about this revolver,Bryan Pearce is critical of the Ruger engineering regarding the chambering problem several of us have mentioned on this site. Ruger did not challenge me in any way about returning the gun, and paid the shipping both ways with no charge for the repair. I probably will go ahead and shoot mine, but I feel that based on what I am reading about the returns to Ruger that they are effectively doing a recall, if not in name, then in fact.

Your experience makes me suspicious of the barrel, thinking that an overpressure round would rupture the cylinder before the barrel,but I have not seen enough guns damaged to really know that that is the case. My bigger concern is that if there are enough problems with this particular model that Ruger will respond as it did with 357 Maximum, by ending production and refusing to return models submitted to them for repair.

[A pause for the COZ]

Your experience makes me suspicious of the barrel, thinking that an overpressure round would rupture the cylinder before the barrel,but I have not seen enough guns damaged to really know that that is the case. My bigger concern is that if there are enough problems with this particular model that Ruger will respond as it did with 357 Maximum, by ending production and refusing to return models submitted to them for repair.

Hmmm that makes me want to send mine in now instead of later. I would want mine back.
Waited far to long to finally get one.

[sixshot]

Sure glad mine is the 8 shot Blackhawk, I like the extra weight, others might not.

Dick

[william iorg]

Were these light bullets? 100-grains or lighter.
I have given a bit of thought to jacket strength and high pressure.
The ammunition manufacturers and the gunwriterstend to emphasize high velocity when they shouldfocus on heavy bullets at moderate velocity.

[CJR]

Typically for overpressures, the cylinders/barrels let go where the pressures are highest; i.e. starting at the cylinders and going forward. When the barrels start splitting at the muzzle, it typically indicates bad metallurgy or heat-treat. Many barrels are batch heat-treated and the heat-treats can vary. Some barrel mfgrs. hardness test the barrels in several spots to insure proper heat-treat which is $$$$$$. As a result of the $$$$, hardness testing on multiple spots of a barrel is not done.

Glad to hear you're alright. Guns can always be replaced; our hands can't be.

Best regards,

CJR

[bedbugbilly]

Glad you weren't hurt - that's the important thing . . .

My first thought would have been "squib" but if they all went off fine and the casings wee tightly wedged - sort of looks like ammo. We can all "arm chair quarterback" this one and be way off. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out and what Ruger says about it. At least you stopped shooting it and caught it when you got home. Keep us posted please as it will be interesting to see what is determined on it. Not fun to have to go through it but at least you are in one piece. Good luck with it!

[prsman23]

Were these light bullets? 100-grains or lighter.
I have given a bit of thought to jacket strength and high pressure.
The ammunition manufacturers and the gunwriterstend to emphasize high velocity when they shouldfocus on heavy bullets at moderate velocity.

100 grainers

www.midwayusa.com/product/462443/federal-american-eagle-ammunition-327-federal-magnum-100-grain-jacketed-soft-point-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding

When I get home I'll post the lot number just in case. I was thinking that it was metallurgy as well. As others have pointed out if it's over pressure it starts the kaboom earlier.

As for the shells sticking that was because of the little jagged piece of metal sticking out and preventing the ejection rid from moving. Once I calmed down and but and inspected the gun carefully I found that to be the reason. Also thinking back to the range where I pulled the cylinder the brass fell out with a few shakes.

[white eagle]

hoo-chee-mama glad you are all rite not hurt

[9.3X62AL]

23, I don't fault you a bit for being rattled during and after the occurrence. Such a thing would have scared the fantods outta me. It does seem that the ammunition may not be at fault if the fired brass shook loose in the manner you describe. Just a guess, as a hobbyist--I haven't risen to the ranks of Propeller Hat Wearer yet.

Again, very glad that you were not injured by this anomaly.

[theperfessor]

That barrel isn't bulged from overpressure. That looks like a brittle failure that started at a roll mark line. Bad metallurgy and heat treating most likely.

[lefty o]

i agree with the above, appears to be overly hardened metal.

[FLHTC]

Sure am glad I bought the Blackhawk. Was this posted on any of the Ruger forums? I can only speculate what caused the problem but a short duration pressure spike will crack steel. It doesn't have to be overly hard to crack. Artillery shell fragments have clean cracks and they aren't hard.

[wrench man]

Maybe it a good thing mine spits out the base pin like it's supposed to?, I can keep an eye on the bottom of the barrel!?, I too have a whole pile of the Federal AE, in fact that's all I have, 85 and 100grn.

[prsman23]

Sure am glad I bought the Blackhawk. Was this posted on any of the Ruger forums? I can only speculate what caused the problem but a short duration pressure spike will crack steel. It doesn't have to be overly hard to crack. Artillery shell fragments have clean cracks and they aren't hard.

Not posted anywhere but here.

[MtGun44]

If the cases won't eject, either VERY rough chambers or WAY high ammo pressure.

Ruptured barrel points to high pressure. I think Fed wants to know about this ASAP.
Save that box of ammo, they need the lot numbers.

New gun and new ammo will be coming, no doubt. Good you are OK.

Bill

[prsman23]

If the cases won't eject, either VERY rough chambers or WAY high ammo pressure.

Ruptured barrel points to high pressure. I think Fed wants to know about this ASAP.
Save that box of ammo, they need the lot numbers.

New gun and new ammo will be coming, no doubt. Good you are OK.

Bill

They did. I made a few amendments. Basically there was some metal blocking the ejection rod. When the cylinder was removed they fell out.

[44man]

A giveaway is the bulge before the crack. Only barrels I ever seen do that was from an obstruction, stuck bullet or jacket left behind.
I will bet a bullet came apart.

[FLHTC]

What is the status on this? Has Ruger come to a conclusion?

[prsman23]

What is the status on this? Has Ruger come to a conclusion?

Not a peep from Ruger yet on it

[contender1]

I spoke with a few folks from Ruger at the SHOT Show about this one. They hadn't seen it yet, or even heard about it yet. They WANT to hear about it & I told them where to look.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I talked to a guy at the Ruger footprint at the SHOT Show about this on Friday. I couldn't find the pic on my iPhone quickly enough in the conversation but by my description he said it's probably caused by an obstruction in the barrel. An examination is necessary for the final conclusions.

[Hickory]

As I look closely at the picture of the barrel, it appears that the muzzle area below the crack is slightly ahead of the muzzle above the crack.
This is a sign of stress as I see it.

[lar45]

Wow, that is just crazy. We shot Doc-44's a couple months ago and it was a sweet shootin little gun. I really would like to be able to aford one right now, but too many other irons are in the fire...
Please keep us posted if you here anything back.

I had some Winchester 454 ammo several years ago that had the cases split on the first fireing. Many of them split lengthwise and a couple split around near the case head. I sent them back and they sent me back some coupons for free Winchester ammo for near the same purchase price.

[flyingmonkey35]

Good luck. If they ask you. Say you have never shot a reload thru it.

Or else they will shut you down faster then you can say KaBlam.

It sounds like a battle between you and federal.

Good luck.

[prsman23]

Should here here on Thursday. Didn't hear a word from Ruger. Just got the shipping notification.

They took care of my on the charger I sent in the day before the single seven. Refinisher the receiver. New bolt and stock and an extra bx-15 for my trouble.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/03/cfdf23c1e92f3ff3666d0646715f48c6.jpg

Put a magpul grip and trs-25 on it. Should be a good range day friday with both of my guns back in the stable.

[9.3X62AL]

They sure didn't mess around getting these issues corrected. Good on Ruger!

[prsman23]

New barrel and pawl. Loading gate works as it should now. No explanation....

[Geppetto]

If you look at the crack, it initiated from that longitudinal feature that is under the roll-stamp. The origin was likely to the left arrow and the longitudinal feature is indicated at the right arrow in the picture. To me, it looks like this is probably a single cycle overload, likely brittle, that propagated form the mark to the muzzle. Ruger likely replaced it and will have a full evaluation done, so they can A) determine if any others are likely to break and B) go after any third parties (steel supplier, heat treater, etc) that were involved in the barrel. The final part C) will likely be consideration as to whether they need to recall or design that area. All of this based upon visual examination of one photo, of course, and is my "expert" opinion ;) (I am a failure analysis engineer).

129639

[osteodoc08]

Glad you got it fixed, but a failure explaination would be nice.

[freebullet]

Well I'm glad they took care of it. I'd Proly trade that bad luck charm off the moment it came back.

I read a warning in an owners manual years ago not too use jacketed bullets below 110 grains. What I can't recall is if the warning was from the m85 in 38spcl or gp100 in 357. I might have to look again.

I also stay away from federal factory ammo. I had problems with primers coming out in a 270 and a 12ga.

Let us know if you shoot or trade it.

[bluelund79]

Glad you got it fixed! Too bad there was no explanation. Thanks for the update

[MtGun44]

If the barrel was heat treated too hard, the roll marking definitely raises high local
stresses, so a crack could develop. But usually barrels are not brittle, much more
elastic after proper heat treat and tempering. Possibly missed the tempering step.

Without knowing the intended industrial processes used in making the barrel it is
essentially impossible to know where the problem occurred.

I'd see how it shoots and if it is accurate, keep it. You can bet it
went through a thorough check before it left after repairs.

Bill

[44man]

I do not think barrels are hardened and annealed. Most are left soft and only the alloy used determines toughness. I do not know what process billets go through.

[Green Frog]

Well I'm glad they took care of it. I'd Proly trade that bad luck charm off the moment it came back.

I read a warning in an owners manual years ago not too use jacketed bullets below 110 grains. What I can't recall is if the warning was from the m85 in 38spcl or gp100 in 357. I might have to look again.

I also stay away from federal factory ammo. I had problems with primers coming out in a 270 and a 12ga.

Let us know if you shoot or trade it.

I have shot both Federal Gold Dot high performance and American Eagle "standard" ammo in 327 through both my BH 8-shooter and my custom K-frame Smith. I honestly believe the problem was with the barrel, although this only comes from looking at the pictures and hearing the story. The way that barrel split looks too much like a flaw there rather than the effect of a bullet/bullet fragment lodging there. Just my 2¢ and probably not worth much more than that, but I sure hope they don't find problems with that Gold Dot ammo... I reload lead for fun, but keep that stuff for serious social work.

Froggie

[9.3X62AL]

Thread respondent "Geppetto" states that he has a background in failure analysis, and I think we can rely on his expertise for purposes of this discussion. I'm glad that Ruger turned this debacle around so quickly--it makes a black eye into a badge of honor to some extent.

They may not at the time of repair had a firm idea of the crack's causation. Ruger's priority was to confirm the remaining platform's safety and get it back to its owner in market condition. I'm sure there is company concern about whether this is one isolated part with a flaw, or a lot of similar parts with similar flaws. So far, the internet hasn't produced reports of same or similar events.

[MaLar]

Looks like a fault in the steel. Like Geppetto said. Once was turning and threading a Shilen barrel.
As it was turning a reflection would (for lack of a better word) blink at me.
Stopped the lathe and looked at the barrel. There was a 4" crack in the steel over the chamber area.
This was going to be chambered to a 7mm Mag.
I cringe every time I think of what could of happened if it wasn't caught.

[FLHTC]

If you look at the crack, it initiated from that longitudinal feature that is under the roll-stamp. The origin was likely to the left arrow and the longitudinal feature is indicated at the right arrow in the picture. To me, it looks like this is probably a single cycle overload, likely brittle, that propagated form the mark to the muzzle. Ruger likely replaced it and will have a full evaluation done, so they can A) determine if any others are likely to break and B) go after any third parties (steel supplier, heat treater, etc) that were involved in the barrel. The final part C) will likely be consideration as to whether they need to recall or design that area. All of this based upon visual examination of one photo, of course, and is my "expert" opinion ;) (I am a failure analysis engineer).

129639

You my man, are interesting to have around!

[contender1]

I kinda figured Ruger would fix this one quickly, to keep the Op happy. As for WHY it happened, like stated above, they may not know why yet. I'd bet heavily on this.
I had a Redhawk many moons ago that is one of the very few infamous ones that had the barrel separate from the frame. It took Ruger a LONG time to discover the cause.
But, they do address the issue and I'm sure they will be working overtime to figure out why this happened.

[9.3X62AL]

Looks like a fault in the steel. Like Geppetto said. Once was turning and threading a Shilen barrel.
As it was turning a reflection would (for lack of a better word) blink at me.
Stopped the lathe and looked at the barrel. There was a 4" crack in the steel over the chamber area.
This was going to be chambered to a 7mm Mag.
I cringe every time I think of what could of happened if it wasn't caught.

MaLar, I just had a rifle come back from a 'smith with new Shilen barrel installed. Your above text inspires me to use a tire casing as rifle holder and long string/loop on the trigger for its first 5-6 rounds. Trust, but verify--as a very fine former President once said.

[Geppetto]

Hey Thanks FLHTC,

I see broken parts every day, It makes for a pretty interesting job. A couple current projects I'm working on now are some broken motor mounts for a washing machine, a failed 26" diameter helical gear for mining equipment, and some control levers for a lawn mower. We get a pretty large cross section of parts in. Give me 2 hours with that barrel and I could get you the failure mode, and give me 3 days and I could have a root cause analysis put together with a report.

I'm glad the gun was made right, and also sorry for the thread drift.

Greg