First shot high

[Mr Peabody]

Shooting my M94 in 38-55 always starts with the first shot going high; by quite a bit. Doesn't seem to matter the bullet design or the intended velocity. What gives?

[Step N. Mud]

maybe cold barrel. how much too high?

[Scharfschuetze]

Often called a cold bore zero in the military. Not uncommon, even in sniper and match rifles. My US Navy 1871 Rolling Block in 50/70 is extreme with its CBZ. My other rifles hardly display it at all. Every rifle is a law unto itself.

While growing up, I was often advised to zero my rifle and then not clean before going hunting. The thinking was that this would reduce any CBZ issues. I never saw the need for it, but your rifle definitely proves the point.

[Mr Peabody]

It hasn't seem to matter whether or not the bore is fouled or clean. Heck you can put a 4 or 5 shot string through it then put it down for 20 minutes, when you shoot the next string the first shot will go to the last first shot and the rest will group with the latter shots. Strange.

[jcren]

A cleaned /oiled barrel obviously has lower friction, i have a muzzle loader that will shoot 8" high on the first shot after storage. That does not appear to be your problem though, and it sounds like you may have a barrel/stock interference problem. Does that rifle have the forestock to barrel "pre-load" nub or pad?

[fouronesix]

It's common if not normal for first shot higher than others. Once in a while first shot will be some direction other than high vertical. Some guns shoot first low then PsOI continue to climb with each shot. Could be either clean bore or cold barrel, bedding, stock or combination of both. 20 minutes may not be enough time for every thing to cool down to ambient temp.

[BCRider]

There's a heat thing going on. I'll bet the magazine tube is bound tight. if it is then as the barrel warms up and expands the increase in length is fighting the bound up mag tube and the barrel is curving to point downward. So really your first shot is correct and then as the barrel warms and fights the mag tube it curves to send the rest low. You've simply adjusted the sights to aim where the warm barrel low shots are going.

The mag tube is fixed at the front on most full length 94's. But if you were to clean out the end where the tube fits into the receiver so it can float then it'll be able to slide forward by the few thousandths needed to float with the barrel as it warms up. Or it may be that it's stuck in the forestock and doing much the same thing. It doesn't need to be nor do you want it to be loose. But maybe it needs to be allowed to float a little even if there's a snug sliding fit.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

It don't like the lube your using maybe? Does it do the same with cast as well as those "J" thingies?

Not the same caliber but less lube has reduced that very problem for me.

[Mr Peabody]

There's a heat thing going on. I'll bet the magazine tube is bound tight. if it is then as the barrel warms up and expands the increase in length is fighting the bound up mag tube and the barrel is curving to point downward. So really your first shot is correct and then as the barrel warms and fights the mag tube it curves to send the rest low. You've simply adjusted the sights to aim where the warm barrel low shots are going.

The mag tube is fixed at the front on most full length 94's. But if you were to clean out the end where the tube fits into the receiver so it can float then it'll be able to slide forward by the few thousandths needed to float with the barrel as it warms up. Or it may be that it's stuck in the forestock and doing much the same thing. It doesn't need to be nor do you want it to be loose. But maybe it needs to be allowed to float a little even if there's a snug sliding fit.
I'll check out the tube. This rifle sat maybe 20 years before being shot and the oils could've got hard.

[Ragnarok]

I would start by 'loosening' all the barrel-band and the front mag-cap screw a turn..see how it shoots...make sure the barrel and mag-tube are straight...and that there are no repaired cracks in the forearm wood that might be interfering or pressuring the barrel...

[Larry Gibson]

Are you single loading or filling the magazine and loading to shoot from there?

Larry Gibson

[McLintock]

I had a Winchester Oliver F. Winchester 38-55 that did the same thing. Did everything I could think of, including having it frozen and butchering the barrel, and nothing ever helped it, first shot out of cold barrel always at least 12" high, next shot maybe half that and then it would finally get close to point of aim and shoot a decent group. Definitely heating had something to do with it. I finally took it apart, sold the action, found a pre 64 action, put a custom barrel on it and finally had a good shooting 38-55 lever gun. I think it was the action and how the barrel hole was made, but don't know to this day.
McLintock

[Mr Peabody]

Well I took the magazine tube out and cleaned it. This rifle( Legendary Frontiersman) has a round barrel. The magazine holder is dovetailed into the barrel; with a pin through the holder into the tube. It also has the screw through the end of the magazine tube with the little tit recessed into the bottom of the barrel. The last copy of a M92 that I had needed that tit on the screw shortened ever so slightly so it didn't bind the tube up against the end of the barrel. Looking at this rifle with a round barrel the magazine tube is pulled up against the end of the barrel from the nose cap on the end of the forearm. Maybe a problem. I'll try some larger diameter boolits when the weather clears; and I'll try some with no magazine tube in the rifle to see what happens.

[Mr Peabody]

What a shame to have such a nice rifle and not be happy with it. I kept thinking that if this was a bolt gun I'd look at the bedding. Worse groups as it warmed up made me look at what was binding. It turned out to be the stress created by a bound up magazine tube. To shorten the story I ended up taking the magazine tube out and shooting it with some of the loads I'd tried before. I got very concentric groups with no fliers. The groups weren't great, but round. I traded it back to the store where I got it for a H&R 1871 in 38-55. It shoots so good with 3 different cast boolits and 1 jacketed bullet that I won't be getting rid of this one. Oh well, on we go.

[gloob]

I just came on here to say I have shot a G17L that did something similarly odd. A hand cycled round hit about an inch left at 10 yards. I noticed this in the very first string I shot with it. Suspected something on the second string. Confirmed upon subsequent shooting. Very easy gun to shoot accurately and one hole groups other than the first shot. I have been curious about this ever since. I have no answer. This had nothing to do with heat or a full mag. Hand cycled rounds hit left.

[1Shirt]

Have 94 Wins in 30-30 and 357. From a clean bbl, the first shot with 30-30 always seems to go high from 4-5" at 100. Same w/357, but more like 3-4" high.
1Shirt!

[georgerkahn]

I also have a Legendary Frontiersman Winchester, and I haven't shot it recently, but -- at 75yard range -- it seemed to group OK from 1st shot, on. Not a "tack driver" -- a bit disappointing to me -- but mine provides ~ 5 inch groups, with one flyer outside not too unusual. I had thoughts of firing from my Target Shooting Corp rest, and your difficulty so motivates me. May be a few days -- it's now 6* with no warmer predicted for a week -- but, next chance, I'll take mine to range and will endeavor to report how mine does. I understand .38-55 brass comes in TWO different lengths; perhaps this may have an affect? -- 2.082" is what I use.
BEST!
george