H&G #292 mold

[jms1911]

Anyone have any experience with the H&G 292 mold for the 45 ACP? Am thinking about getting one from Ballistic-cast. Don't think I will ever see a used one for sale. I see it was in the H&G catalog in the 90's and was an air force design. I like the 230 weight and the nose shape. Don't care for hollow points in a 45 caliber. Don't see anyone else making one with a flat base. Was wondering if this design shoots accurate? If nothing else I like the old 230 Ball round nose as that has been proven to do the job. Thanks for any info,John

[CJR]

jms1911,

Years ago, I had H&G make two 6 or 8 cavity moulds of this bullet. I requested they weight-match both moulds to throw as close to the same weights as possible. They did just that. These are superb bullets, patterned after the very accurate TC designs developed by the Air Force/GE/Picatinny Arsenal/Hornady. They are very accurate and hit very hard. And no, they are not for sale!

Best regards,

CJR

[case931]

I contacted Hardline Industries and they said they could make this same bullet. Just haven't got around to placing an order. Looks like it might be a good 45 ACP and 45 Colt bullet. Did not want to get a similar Lee bullet because of beveled base; maybe a mistake on my part?

[Jack Stanley]

I bought one of those back in the nineties and still use it . I like it very much , it feeds as good as round nose in my pistol . I'm sure you'll like it if you tried it .

Jack

[jms1911]

Thanks for the info. Do you know any background on the background on the development of this design ie: TC or air-force? I have some jacketed Hornadys and Sierras that look to have the same nose profile but are HP. I have a couple of H&G four cavity molds one is a #130 I use for Bullseye shooting. They are great to work with. The only thing close is an old RCBS 45-200 grain Rowland design swc I have had for 15 yrs. It throws a perfect bullet almost every time but is only two cavity. Those four cavity H&G's just pile them up. I could imagine a 8 or 10. Looks like I will give Ballistic cast a call. Thanks guys,John

[CJR]

jms1911,

I gave the history on the AF/GE/Picatinny/S&W/Hornady development of the 9mm bullet and then the 45ACP bullet on I believe the "Smokeless PPCB Forum". If you can't find it let me know and I'll recite it. I have the technical paper documenting the AF's bullet development. Basically. the AF developed the equations for accuracy in all small arms projectiles. These equations were then patented by the AF. Bob Whyte of GE(formerly of Picatinny Arsenal), who aided the AF, went on to co-form Arrow Tech Associates who now sells the software package called, "PRODAS". PRODAS is the WORLD standard in designing accurate spin stabilized projectiles and is used by many Government labs and the ammo mfgrs.

Best regards,

CJR

[jms1911]

jms1911,

Years ago, I had H&G make two 6 or 8 cavity moulds of this bullet. I requested they weight-match both moulds to throw as close to the same weights as possible. They did just that. These are superb bullets, patterned after the very accurate TC designs developed by the Air Force/GE/Picatinny Arsenal/Hornady. They are very accurate and hit very hard. And no, they are not for sale!

Best regards,

CJR

Just purchased a 4 cavity H&G 292 on e-bay. First one I have ever seen on there and worth the wait. It preforms just like a H&G should after preheating it cranked out bullets perfect. Just tried it on a 50 yrd. bullseye target and it is amazing the accuracy it has. The earlist catalog I have seen it listed is 1983. Do you know how early they made it? This is defintaly a keeper. John

[jms1911]

Yeah it looks like that one. I have a flat base one. Was going to buy one from him if I couldn't find one. A hard hitting and accurate design. Feeds in my pistol great.

[CJR]

Many moulds are just someones guesses about what an accurate CB should be. But this H&G 292 design was based on scientific bullet research, whose accuracy was then verified by shooting numerous rounds. Likewise, it feeds well in the 1911 and hits hard. What's not to like about this AF design? It's a winner!

Best regards,

CJR

[youngmman]

I have an H&G 292 bought in the late 1980's and honestly it has never been very accurate and I have experimented with several 45's and different powders. IMHO, the LBT 230gr LFN shines over the #292 in terms of accuracy and killing power with actual hunting experience: 6 or 6.3grns Unique, BHN 14, WLP, Taper Crimp @.470", and LBT Blue Lube is a tack driver in each of three .45 ACP's I shoot regularly.

[CJR]

youngmman,

Your comments on using a 230 gr. LBT LFN in a 1911 are interesting. In my LBT literature, Veral Smith recommends the LFN series for only revolvers . Based on my LBT LFN moulds, I would think getting a LFN bullet design to function in a 1911, without jamming, would be tough.

Best regards,

CJR

[youngmman]

youngmman,

Your comments on using a 230 gr. LBT LFN in a 1911 are interesting. In my LBT literature, Veral Smith recommends the LFN series for only revolvers . Based on my LBT LFN moulds, I would think getting a LFN bullet design to function in a 1911, without jamming, would be tough.

Best regards,

CJR

You are thinking of the WFN (wide flat nose). Here is a quote from the LBT Catalog regarding the best bullet for the 45 Auto:

" 45 AUTO
We offer three bullet profiles for 45 autos. The SWC 200 gr which is ever popular with target
shooters because it cuts clean holes in paper for accurate scoring. The FNB duplicates a
jacketed form very closely, with the nose clipped to make a flatnose. However, we consider the
LFN to be the ultimate ACP bullet, in weights from 220 to 260 gr, with 220 and 230 probably
giving the best live target performance because of their higher velocity potential. Order any
diameter you want, plain base, bevel base, or gas check."

I use the WFN's in the revolvers and they are also tack drivers if a little time is given to load development and preparing the gun to shoot lead bullets.

[CJR]

youngmman,

Thanks for the update. My LBT literature has no statement as you cited.

Best regards,

CJR

[jms1911]

I hate to impose and ask this. can you measure some of you're bullets and compare the measurements to the accurate mold design? I am interested in buyin but want to be as clos to h&g bullet as possible. thank you.
I took some measurements from one of my bullets and compared to the Accurate drawing. Thay are basicly the same with the most noteable difference in the slight radius of the meplat on the H&G.

[jms1911]

youngmman,

Your comments on using a 230 gr. LBT LFN in a 1911 are interesting. In my LBT literature, Veral Smith recommends the LFN series for only revolvers . Based on my LBT LFN moulds, I would think getting a LFN bullet design to function in a 1911, without jamming, would be tough.

Best regards,

CJR

Took me almost a year but finally captured one of these molds and worth the wait. I can see why you won't sell yours. Just started playing with the load development but with 4.8 red dot I was impressed.

[CJR]

jms1911,

A final note on the Air Force 45ACP design, aka H&G292. What the Air Force found was that its success was due to adjusting the Center of Pressure (CP) to be forward and the Center of Gravity(CG) to be rearward and with a separation distance between CP & CG. This is what is done with match jacketed rifle bullets, i.e.:
1. The manufacturer picks a low aerodynamic nose for long range,
2. Finds it's inaccurate because there's no separation between the CP & CG to insure gyroscopic flight correction from wind deflection loads.
3. Then the manufacturer only partially fills the jacket with lead; i.e. sometimes stopping before the start of the nose ogive to get the required CP/CG separation for the accuracy they require.

Lessons learned? If you have another poor performing CB design, with sufficient cylindrical length to prevent in-bore yaw, chances are it can be improved by simply hollow-pointing it instead of buying another mould.

Enjoy your H&G 292 mould. Remember not only is it accurate and functions well in a 1911 with little or no tweaking; it's also very hard hitting!

Best regards,

CJR