stubb barrel double rifle?

[shawnba67]

I am not a machinist,but was wondering about the do-ability of taking an old say 311 stevens sxs and putting a 50 cal barrel on one side and a 22lr or maybe 22 hornet on the other side. i came by this desire in the deer woods watching all those delicious squirrels run around, but not wanting to turn them inside out with the ML and not wanting to carry a separate squirrel rifle.
I realize this rifle is likely to be very ugly as it would require sights on both barrels, and the barrels would likely be different diameters. but it would serve my purpose dutifully. Any way any ideas on ways to proceed or reasons not too?

[elk hunter]

Shawnba67,

You sure do want to make a difficult project even more so. You say 50 caliber for one barrel and 22 for the other, wow. Any shotgun action is going to be limited by pressure to what you could safely build on it, so the 50 caliber has me nervous unless it's a muzzle loader. As for the 22, the Hornet is a reasonable possibility. If it were me I would leave the right barrel as a shotgun, put a set of sights on the rib and shoot slugs then build a full length liner, full chamber/barrel size for ten to twelve inches then thin to the muzzle, for the left barrel with an eccentric bushing to regulate the Hornet barrel to the sights. This would add some weight to the gun but shouldn't be excessive.

You would need to bush the rifle firing pin hole and make up a new firing pin of the correct size.

Sounds interesting, let us know what you do.

[shawnba67]

Oh i guess i didnt specify the 50 would be ML probably just use the barrel off of the worthless cva electra ive got.change the breech plug and go

[Jeff Michel]

I think there was an article in the Home Shop Machinist couple years ago describing this very topic. I'll see if I can track it down.

[texassako]

There is a whole book on making one: Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions by W. Ellis Brown. I have yet to use much out of it, but it is also a very good source of info for suitable actions and stubbing barrels as well.

[M-Tecs]

In both states I hunt it would not be legal in the muzzleloader season if you used a centerfire round like the 22 Hornet. Not sure if it would even be legal with a rimfire.

[shawnba67]

In both states I hunt it would not be legal in the muzzleloader season if you used a centerfire round like the 22 Hornet. Not sure if it would even be legal with a rimfire.
ill have to check on that. I'm pretty sure our guide book(IN) said combo rifles were not illegal, may have missed a part about not loading one or the other though
Well I checked and only muzzle loading rifles or pistols are legal during ML season however multi barreled is ok. So my very on SxS savage 42 idea isn't going to get off the ground. However a dual barreled Amal idea is born. Wonder if I can get it done cheaper than buying a pederasoli?

[M-Tecs]

GTG for firearms season but not the muzzleloading season since "A muzzleloading firearm must be capable of being loaded from only the muzzle."

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/deer-regulations/

Hunters may carry more than one type of legal firearm when hunting during the firearms and special antlerless seasons only. Shotguns must be 10-, 12-, 16- or 20-gauge or .410 bore loaded with slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are permitted. Combination rifle-shotguns are allowed.
Muzzleloading firearms must be .44 caliber or larger, loaded with a single bullet of at least .357 caliber. Saboted bullets are allowed, provided the bullet is .357 caliber or larger. A muzzleloading firearm must be capable of being loaded from only the muzzle. Multiple-barrel muzzleloading long guns are allowed.
Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf.
Handguns, other than muzzleloading, must have a barrel at least 4 inches long and must fire a bullet of .243-inch diameter or larger. The handgun cartridge case, without the bullet, must be at least 1.16 inches long. Full metal-jacketed bullets are not permitted. The handgun must not be a rifle that has a barrel less than 18 inches or be designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder.
Handguns are not permitted on any military areas.
Some handgun cartridges that are legal for deer hunting include .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .35 Remington and .357 Herrett.
Some handgun cartridges that are illegal for deer hunting are .38 Special, .38 Smith and Wesson, .38 Colt New Police, .38/200, .38 Long Colt, .38 Super, .38 ACP, .38 Colt Auto, .45 ACP, .45 Automatic and .45 Auto Rim. All .25/.20, .32/.20 and .30 carbine ammunition is prohibited.
Muzzleloading handguns are allowed. The muzzleloading handgun must be single shot, .50 caliber or larger, loaded with bullets at least .44 caliber and have a barrel at least 12 inches long, measured from the base of the breech plug excluding tangs and other projections to the end of the barrel, including the muzzle crown.

[elk hunter]

Shawnba67,

Sounds like you need to build a muzzle loading swivel-breech rifle with one small bore and one large bore barrel. A swivel-breech rifle has two barrels like a modern over/under but the barrels swivel around a pin in the breech/ lock area. It uses one back action lock and both barrels have their own set of sights. I've often thought of building one but, we can only use single barrel rifles during our muzzle loader big game seasons. It would eliminate the problem of regulation of side by side barrels. And you would certainly have the only one in your neighborhood.

[big bore 99]

I've been a tool and die maker all my life and retired now. Aside from the legal aspects, it sounds to be a major kind of project. If it was legal at all, I'd just keep one side loaded with a slug for deer and the other with birdshot for small game. You'd need a double trigger system to choose which barrel to fire.

[shawnba67]

What is the possibility of 45 cal ML inserts for a 12guage?

[lar45]

There is a whole book on making one: Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions by W. Ellis Brown. I have yet to use much out of it, but it is also a very good source of info for suitable actions and stubbing barrels as well.

I'll vote a strong 2nd on getting this book. It really is a wealth of information on the subject.
One legal note here, the finished product will have to have barrels at least 18" long because the gun started life as a shotgun.
I started with an antique Belgian 12ga and built liners in 470NE that I could shim around to regulate the barrels.

127562

127563

I mounted express sights on the rib.
127564
Sorry the pics are kind of small.

The recoil was starting to damage the butt stock, so I had to reinforce it with all thread expoxied in place through the wrist section. Also I machined a steel recoil lug that was epoxied in place along with some brass machine screws to reinforce other areas.
The project was going along rather nicely, but after about 400 full power rounds(500gn cast bullets at 2150fps) the action started getting loose and was getting off face.
I started with too light of an action and should have used one built for heavy use as a waterfoul gun.
Here are some notes on my project. http://www.lsstuff.com/howdah/470.html
The gun was pretty much destroyed in our shop fire, so now it's just a wall hanger and conversation piece.

[shawnba67]

Beautiful rifle Lar. And built by you, also a beatiful thing. To many people devalue building your own just to do it no other reason necessary.

[lar45]

The whole project was lots of fun and shooting it was a blast. Before I put some weight in the butt, it weighed in at just over 8#. The recoil of an 8# 470NE is a little on the brisk side :)
If I had it to do over again, I would probably go with something on a smaller case head, like the 45-120.
I do have a couple of 10ga doubles that may find their way to the chopping block someday...

[Bulldogger]

I've been wanting to find an old Fox or Stevens double in .410 to stub and build a double 30-06 from. I realize one can find a Baikal, but I don't like their looks and the reports in their performance vary.
If you do it, please post details, it will stoke the embers of my back-of-the-head project.

By the way, I got in on the runs of seconds from the publisher of Brown's book. These have poor images, but the text is perfect. The images are grainy, something wrong with the resolution settings of the printer I guess. It's a good read.

Bulldogger

[skeettx]

Here is a TriStar Brittany 410 with these inserted in the ejectors just for fun
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j452/skeettx/MVC-011S-2_zps3c326482.jpg
Mike

[lar45]

Doing a 50 cal Muzzle loader barrel should be fine. It would be great if it was an inline barrel setup for 209 shotgun primers.

I converted some flare guns to fire different pistol rounds. I took some round bar and turned the end down to fit inside of the flare gun. Then I cut off some pieces about 3/4" thick, then drilled a hole in it to fit the smaller pistol barrel. I silver soldered the bushings to the pistol barrel, then did the same for the flare gun barrel.
The resulting pistol was legal becuase I used a rifled barrel.

This same process could be easily done with a 22 barrel.

[John Taylor]

Double rifles are fun. I have built a few and have one in the works now. Easiest way is to line the barrels but it is also the heaviest way to go. With liners you make a couple bushings to keep the liner centered in the bore and turn a bushing that will fill the chamber and bore it for a close fit on the liner. To regulate the barrels a slight offset of the liner at the muzzle, turn the liners till both barrels are shooting to the same place at 50 yards. Then set the liners with loctite. Your 310 would be safe with almost any black powder cartridge and plenty safe as a muzzle loader. Might think of a 50 on one side and a 32 on the other with 209 primers and the extractor extended to remove said primers. The 50 with 80-100 grains of powder will take anything and the 32 with about 10 grains would be a little more power than a 22LR.