I just had to share this

[kweidner]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/13/former-cop-sues-kentucky-hunting-store-after-accidentally-shooting-off-his-own-finger/

OK we all make mistakes. But a vet officer should own up to the fact that all guns are loaded even when they aren't. While I sympathize with the loss of his finger, I hardly see how this is 100% the store's fault. Last person looking at it could have slipped a round in it. You never know. ALWAYS treat as is they were loaded.

[Wayne Smith]

Neither one of them checked the chamber before they handled the gun, and he worked the slide before he shot off his finger without checking the magazine. Seems to me he has equal responsiblity at least.

[BK7saum]

Yeah, he screwed up for not checking the chamber and magazine himself. But the store has liability insurance and definitely screwed up by not checking the gun before it was handed to a customer.

[44man]

I never have a loaded gun, not ever in my safe but I check when giving one to a friend to see. A cop should know and why were his fingers in front of the gun. He is at fault too.
I hunt on private property and have fallen on ice, etc. It is my fault, never my neighbors. I walk into branches all the time so should I sue to make my friends cut them out?
You are in charge of yourself, don't blame others.

[Dhammer]

Thats crazy, I don't care if someone clears a weapon and hands it to me immediately afterwards. First thing I'm doing is making sure for myself. Even then I always treat em like they are loaded, so that's knowing where its pointed too, away from my body parts and others.

If they can go back on the video, I'd be curious to see if they can figure out when and who loaded it. Its a hughe pet peeve of mine when some idiot ask to see something and soon as they are handed it immediately sweep everyone in the store, usually finger on trigger too.
He's got some blame, no and if or but. He should have known better too. But I got a feeling he will get paid.

[fredj338]

So another example of the high level of training LEO are supposed to have that makes them superior to the trained civ.:groner:Thx.

[gwpercle]

It's never my fault, always some one else's responsibility...where is my lawyer, they must pay, it's not my responsibility, gun safety is not my responsibility!

If you are going to handle guns you better make gun safety your A-1 , top-priority responsibility, because if you depend on others to do it for you, your dumb asset might wind up with a finger blown off or worse. If he had shot and killed the salesperson he would be in a world of trouble. Just try using that lame " it was the gun shop's responsibility" excuse in front of a judge and jury.
Gary

[dondiego]

I noticed that he had the muzzle pointed towards another customer when it discharged. They were all lucky.

[R3104D3R]

Every gun is loaded. His fault for not checking. Did he even ask permission to rack and tap? Remove the mag, open the action, check the chamber. User Error ID:10T.

And .380? Buying for his girl I hope.

[georgerkahn]

The "Three Rules" we attempt to pound into each and every Hunter Safety / Firearms Student are: 1/ Every firearm is loaded, 2/ Have 100% control of your muzzle, and 3/ Know your target AND BEYOND! The shop employee should have cleared firearm before handing it to customer, and customer should not have permitted barrel to be pointed anywhere where a discharge might do damage to himself or another. That this occurred is a true shame! As an added note re caliber -- we also note that the #1 caliber in terms of non-military and non-police deaths is the diminutive .22 long rifle. The .22lr kills as well as a 50bmg -- albeit, in a good many cases a bit slower.

[kweidner]

Every gun is loaded. His fault for not checking. Did he even ask permission to rack and tap? Remove the mag, open the action, check the chamber. User Error ID:10T.

And .380? Buying for his girl I hope.

Hey now :smile:I own all sorts of calibers....... too many to list....... even a .380. great pocket gun. Carry it daily due to compactness. I just can't wrap my head around the lawsuit. I guess thats why I carry liability too. I guess most on here just think differently. The spray pattern was really something when it went off. dooooooh. that had to hurt.

[Eddie2002]

I was told that every time you pick up a firearm you check it to make sure it is not loaded, drop the magazine and check the chamber. If you put the gun down on a table and pick it up again after only 30 seconds you check it again. Doesn't matter how many times it gets picked up, it gets checked each time. I've got some strange looks at LGS's and the range while doing this but had a scare years ago with a rifle and learned my lesson before anybody got hurt. 10 seconds can save a life.

[xs11jack]

Who ever has their hands on the gun is totally responsible for the safety of everyone in the room.
Ole Jack

[leeggen]

You would be surprized as to the number of guns handed to me follwed by "It's not loaded" to find a shell in the chamber or setting in the mag just waiting. It is an automatic move for me to open the chamber and remove the mag, even then I keep it pointed in a save area. I just don't trust any gun to be unloaded.
CD

[altheating]

Did you ever watch people in a gun shop. I see so many people pick up a firearm from the rack and totally forget about everyone else in the shop. Do they think that just because they are in a gun shop they can point the guns at other customers. That drives me crazy everytime I see it happen.

[Foto Joe]

The guy standing to his left is extremely luck to be alive. It boggles the mind that ANYONE and especially a trained law enforcement officer would fail to clear a weapon prior to handling. I hope that the judge/jury realizes that the cop made a near fatal mistake and that he should own it.

[Swede 45]

My father had a comment for me as a kid everytime i did something stoopid and hurt my self and came crying....
"So son, did you learn anything from that?"

[Digital Dan]

Won't do that twice I'll betcha. Probably won't get anything out of a court either, but Ins. might stroke him a little. He seemed shocked....

[h8dirt]

Duhhh … DARWIN?

[prs]

The store will be found at fault, totally. The officer will be/is embarrassed, but will take the "lottery proceeds". I saw this on the news, the video I got to see did not show the clerk handing off the firearm to the customer so I wondered if the customer did not sacrifice his finger to get $, I will watch the above cited version. If you show a weapon to be clear and hand it to me, I will verify that it is clear. I will NOT sweep anyone, including myself. I will show the weapon to be clear as I hand it back to you. Bleeding on the store floor? Bad form, old boy. ;-)

Rooster

[prs]

The store will be found at fault, totally. The officer will be/is embarrassed, but will take the "lottery proceeds". I saw this on the news, the video I got to see did not show the clerk handing off the firearm to the customer so I wondered if the customer did not sacrifice his finger to get $, I will watch the above cited version. If you show a weapon to be clear and hand it to me, I will verify that it is clear. I will NOT sweep anyone, including myself. I will show the weapon to be clear as I hand it back to you. Bleeding on the store floor? Bad form, old boy. ;-)

Rooster

PS: OK, It looks like the clerk was almost asleep and the guy at the other end of the counter had a narrow escape.

[Kraschenbirn]

Kinda like "Dumb & Dumber". Unfortunately, that incompetent cop will not only collect a bundle off the store's insurance company but will also collect early retirement and lifetime disability on the taxpayer's dime.

Bill

[fredj338]

Kinda like "Dumb & Dumber". Unfortunately, that incompetent cop will not only collect a bundle off the store's insurance company but will also collect early retirement and lifetime disability on the taxpayer's dime.

Bill
Who ever said being stupid didn't pay off.

[TXGunNut]

If the guy to the cop's left saw this video he probably feels mighty lucky. Little 380's are tough to check chamber and mag but that's no excuse; drop the mag and check it anyway.

[Hickory]

and lifetime disability on the taxpayer's dime. Bill

Disability for loosing a finger?

[taco650]

Kinda like "Dumb & Dumber". Unfortunately, that incompetent cop will not only collect a bundle off the store's insurance company but will also collect early retirement and lifetime disability on the taxpayer's dime.

Bill

I'm an LEO and I agree that the first thing he should have done is check the weapon in a safe manner. He didn't, shame on him. Shame on the store too for having a loaded gun on display.

One more thing, just because an officer has 30 years experience doesn't mean anything. There are some officers whose 30 years of experience really amounts to one year replayed 30 times in a row. I've worked with a few and it sucks because I want to know I can depend on you to do the right thing when we're out on the street together... but I can't. :-(

[CPL Lou]

All firearms are loaded all the time !
That assumption has been drilled into my head since I was a kid and guess what ? I've not had a negligent discharge, yet.
Even after chamber checks I don't pull the trigger unless I want the firearm to fire a round.
Trigger pulls are checked at the range only! (My favorite Gunshop has an indoor range for such activities).
I taught my children this same mantra and they learned it well.
The reason this was drilled into me? I had a cousin that was shot in the face by his brother with a 12 gauge shotgun that was "unloaded". Both of my cousins never recovered from that incident.

End of rant.

CPL Lou

[ColColt]

Blows me away anyone would have a finger or hand at the muzzle and obviously pull the trigger, even if he thought it wasn't loaded. You don't do that.

[aspangler]

Thats crazy, I don't care if someone clears a weapon and hands it to me immediately afterwards. First thing I'm doing is making sure for myself. Even then I always treat em like they are loaded, so that's knowing where its pointed too, away from my body parts and others.

We teach this in Hunter Safety classes in Tennessee. Even if you see me check it, CHECK IT YOURSELF.

[mjwcaster]

Who in the heck pulls the trigger on a gun that is pointing at themselves?
How many safety rules were broken?[smilie=b:

My daughter has known firearm safety at least since she was 5, started earlier but proven at 5.
Went to the basement to show her a new stock on my 10/22, opened the case and she ran away, leaving me confused.
Came back down a minute later with a cable tie, the tool I taught her to check the chamber with (have them laying every where from work, didn't want little fingers smashed by flying bolts).
She knew that the first thing we needed to do was make sure the gun was unloaded and even then we do not point it at anything we are not willing to destroy.
She has even taught other kids the rules of firearms safety and applies them to everything from airsoft/bb guns to firearms.

I share this story in my classes.

If a 5 year old gets it, there is no reason an adult can't.
None.
Not one freaking reason.

My biggest pet peeve(and there are lots of them) is people taking guns out of cases, with them pointing at others and never even checking them.
And no one says a thing,not even the person with the muzzle pointing at them.

Seen way too many 'unloaded' guns come out of cases with a round in the chamber.

I don't care if I watch someone else check a gun, I am checking it myself.
Watch me dry fire practice, check and clear gun, take aim, press check just to make sure, dry fire. Check again if more than a few seconds between trigger pulls.
Even in class, if the gun has been checked 20 times, we check again.
A little paranoia can be a good thing.

[scottfire1957]

Who pulled the trigger? If I would be on the jury, he'd get not one red cent. The cop's error was the MOST aggregious.

[mjwcaster]

As far as a lawsuit, the store does share some liability.
Even if they are a hassle, I think if I had a store I would have something like removable cable ties through the mag well/chamber.
Want to dry fire the gun, move over to a designated area, recite safety rules, pull the tie and then dry fire.

I love the local gun show, walk in the front door with a gun to sell and it is checked and zip tied.
A vendor comes in the side door, can bring as many guns as they have and no safety check.
There have been negligent discharges at this show and others in the area.

Some shows do not even allow loaded guns on the premises, deputies at the door asking.
Kind of ironic, we want to be able to carry guns every where, but gun shows do not allow loaded firearms.
What kind of message is that?

[scottfire1957]

The store will be found at fault, totally. The officer will be/is embarrassed, but will take the "lottery proceeds". I saw this on the news, the video I got to see did not show the clerk handing off the firearm to the customer so I wondered if the customer did not sacrifice his finger to get $, I will watch the above cited version. If you show a weapon to be clear and hand it to me, I will verify that it is clear. I will NOT sweep anyone, including myself. I will show the weapon to be clear as I hand it back to you. Bleeding on the store floor? Bad form, old boy. ;-)

Rooster

We're I on the jury, officer wouldn't get a cent. HE pulled the trigger, not the store or the clerk.

1. Treat EVERY gun as though it is loaded.
2. Do not point the gun at anything you do not want to kill/destroy.
3. Be sure of your target and what is beyond.

That officer screwed up. He IS at fault. Please put me on the jury! Pretty please with sugar on top!

[Hickok]

To that fellow, Here's your sign, "I AM a special kind of Stupid!"

Thankfully for the bystanders, the pistol wasn't a .40 S&W or a 45 ACP, the bullet may have behaved differently after clipping off some fingers.

[Hickory]

I never have a loaded gun, not ever in my safe.

I have loaded guns in my house and in my safe. I have signs in my loading room stating that "all guns on this property are loaded." Whether they are or not.
Not having a loaded gun when you need it is like having a spare tire in your car with no air in it.
I know some here won't agree, but, you do what you think works best for you, and I'll do what works best for me.

P.S. I have enemies who have stated in front of witnesses that they would kill me if they ever got the chance.

[USAFrox]

I have loaded guns in my house and in my safe. I have signs in my loading room stating that "all guns on this property are loaded." Whether they are or not.
Not having a loaded gun when you need it is like having a spare tire in your car with no air in it.


100% agree. I've never understood the thinking behind the folks who have guns at home for protection, but don't keep them loaded, or keep them with the trigger lock or cable in them. What the heck good would that be if you ever actually needed it for protection? I do keep loaded guns in my home - not all of them, but there are loaded guns in case I need one.

[R3104D3R]

Duhhh … DARWIN?

To qualify you have to improve the human race by self-selecting yourself from the gene pool, through death or sterilization. While he may appear to be an award contender, he could still produce offspring and further dilute the pool.

[robg]

the gun is always loaded ,whats not to understand

[Spector]

If the cop wins then do not be surprised if the customers down the counter from him sue the police officer and department because they now have PTSD and nightmares because the cop fired a pistol at them. Makes as much sense as the cop's lawsuit against the store.

Years ago I failed to put my safety glasses on as I was just going to touch a pistol part to my grinder wheel. A tiny piece of steel hit me dead center of my right eye. I went to my doctor the next day and I still believe he did not give me proper treatment. After weeks he finally sent me to a specialist who's nurse told me the other doctor had really made me worse. I wrote everything down I could recall about the conversations my first doctor and I had. It was my intention to go after him. I was mad. My vision would never come back the way it was. Then one day I was pondering the situation when it hit me.

If I had done what I should have done, none of the rest of it would have happened. It occurred to me that this doctor had treated me for other mistakes I'd made over the years and had done very well by me. Even doctors have off days.....just like sales clerks in firearms departments. My doctor had not purposely harmed me. It was me who was primarily responsible for all what had occurred.

I wish this cop would have a soul searching conversation with himself. He could have been the hero. Checking the pistol as he should have. Discovering it was loaded. Preventing a potential tragedy. Informing the store how they need to upgrade training for their employees.

I understand what might be going on in his head. It's easy to want to blame someone else for an injury that we will always live with. But in the end if the police officer is a fair man I think he'll have to come to the decision I came to. It was my own fault.

His attorney may be leading this event, but the attorney works for the client, not the client for the attorney. The officer should tell the attorney ''no thanks'',then go to the store and explain he's come to his senses and then apologize to his police department for putting one of their own in a bad light.

If a fair minded dim-bulb like me can figure that out then any fair-minded dim bulb should be able to do it. And any man or woman issued a badge should be fair minded. Not perfect, but at least fair-minded and willing to own their own actions.......Mike

[R3104D3R]

A tiny piece of steel hit me dead center of my right eye. I went to my doctor the next day and I still believe he did not give me proper treatment.

Did you get it out before going to the doctor? I'd remove it with a heavy magnet, neodymium or similar, if it was just lodged in the cornea. What a relief that would be, to have pain and then 'thwunk', no pain.