NOE 311041, Marlin 336 help please!

[sghart3578]

Hello friends,

I have had a lot of luck lately with my new NOE mold in my 1894CS, it shoots like a laser. But my new loads for my 336 are not starting out so well.

I have a NOE version of the 311041. It makes very nice boolits at around .312-.313". I lube, gas check and size them to .311". I started with the two loads that work well in my 30.06 and that is 16 gr of 2400 and 10 gr of Unique. I fired them at an indoor range so wind wasn't a factor. The smallest group was 2 1/2" at 25 yards. I didn't take any photos because I was embarrassed.

I have eliminated the possibility of problems with the rifle itself. It fires the Lee C309-150-F boolits into 1/2" groups at the same distance with the same loads. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Do I need to push them faster? I am limited on my rifle powders. I have H4895, W748 and H335. I don't have any 3031 but a guy at work can spare me some RL7.

I should also note that this is a Texan with a 18.5" barrel.

Thank you in advance for your help.



Steve in N CA

[RickinTN]

My guess is you are trying to push them a little too hard. A moderate load in an '06 is a pretty hot load in a 30-30. Try backing your 2400 load down to somewhere in the 14 or so grain range and your Unique load down into the 8 or so grain range and I think the groups should tighten for you.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Maineboy]

Sometimes a boolit will shoot well with any load, sometimes you have to wok hard to find the right combo. It looks like you might have to start from scratch with this one. For what it's worth, 8 grains of Unique works very well with the Lyman 311041 in my Marlin 30-30 as does 11 grains 0f 2400. Both are pretty light loads. When I want to push that boolit faster, I use 748 and IMR 4895. The Lee 150 is a great boolit in my three 30-30s and it doesn't seem to mind any reasonable load with most powders I've tried. I haven't had as good luck with the 311041. BTW, my Marlin is a pre-microgroove version.

[GabbyM]

Don't think it's typical but I never had any luck with Unique or 2400 in a Marlin 336 either. Never tried it in my later acquired Win 94. Rx7 worked great for me. I'd say give any of the three slower rifle powders you listed a try at around 1850 fps to start.


Muzzle velocity or lack of isn't the issue. 1:10" twist in the Marlin is enough to stabilize that bullet at sub sonic velocity. I would look more at possibility that bullet is stripping in the shallow micro grove rifling. Then as RickTN wrote. Pushing them to hard. Fast powder will create a rapid acceleration rate.

[Shuz]

7g of Unique and my NOE 311-165PB is a tack driver in my 336 Marlin .30-30. Velocity is 1132fps and the accuracy is just a scosh over an inch at 50 meters and 4 went into .82". That design is somewhat similar to your NOE 311041, and mine weigh 171g.

[Char-Gar]

My guess is you are trying to push them a little too hard. A moderate load in an '06 is a pretty hot load in a 30-30. Try backing your 2400 load down to somewhere in the 14 or so grain range and your Unique load down into the 8 or so grain range and I think the groups should tighten for you.
Good Luck,
Rick

That was going to be my suggestion as well, but Rick beat me to it!

[popper]

127529
PB & GC versions of RD 311, similar to 041. Shot better in 336 without the check using slow powder. I'd try ~ 20 gr. H4895. Never had good results with unique or 2400 in my 30/30.

[Foto Joe]

My hunting load with the 311041 is 27.5gr of IMR 4895 which runs 1,900 fps and change out of a Henry. I'd side with popper on this one and suggest a workup starting with the 20gr of H4895. I'd also be curious as to what lube you're using. I started out using Lyman Super Moly with not so hot results, I'm back to NRA 50/50.

[Doc Highwall]

You said you shot at 25 yards, what kind of sights did you use? With iron sights that would not be good, and with a scope if it does not have parallax adjustment and is fixed at 100 yards that could account for the large group at 25 yards.

[sghart3578]

I lube with Alox, two coats and a gas check. I am using an old Weaver 2.5 fixed power scope. I think that I will try again with the stock sights, no scope.

Unfortunately right now I am limited to a 25 yard indoor range. It is close and handy and my free time is rare.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try all of them.

[dubber123]

You said you shot at 25 yards, what kind of sights did you use? With iron sights that would not be good, and with a scope if it does not have parallax adjustment and is fixed at 100 yards that could account for the large group at 25 yards.

Excellent point. It can also apply to longer range shooting too. Many shooters don't check for parallax at all. I have a .280 Rem here with an older Leupold 3-9X on it. It has at least 4" of parallax at 50 yds. It shoots tighter groups at 100 yards. I just noticed you are using a scope. They do go bad, you might bring some of the known good loads to check. I have an old Weaver 1.5X on my favorite 30-30.

I'd maybe try a slower powder, or slow your current loads down a bit. It is curious the LEE shoots well with the same loads though.. I am assuming the same alloy and lube? You might try quenching. If you are stripping the rifling for some reason, a harder boolit might help.

[sghart3578]

It is funny, the Lee C309-150 F bullets shoot great. So do the 150 gr jacketed

Tomorrow I am going to try some 311041's over 3031, H4895 and W748. We will see.

[Foto Joe]

I am using an old Weaver 2.5 fixed power scope. I think that I will try again with the stock sights, no scope.

I've been fighting this particular battle for some time now and a week or so ago I was out at the range with Larry Gibson and all of a sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks. Using a 63b mount plate under a Weaver 2.5 I noted when I moved my noggin on the stock that the cross hairs moved!! As it turns out, the scope rings held the scope too far above the receiver for me to adequately hold a consistent view through it. We pulled the scope and switched to the stock iron sights and all of a sudden I'm whacking pieces of clay targets on the berm at 110 yards. Have a look at your scope rings, if they aren't the "low" type then you might look into changing them over to these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140319/weaver-top-mount-weaver-style-rings?cm_vc=ProductFinding

I'll be testing out a borrowed set of these rings some time this week, if they bring my groups into acceptable limits I'll spend the whopping $20 on a set for myself. As for shooting acceptable groups with the Lee boolits I don't have an explanation for that but at the distance that you're shooting I'd definitely eliminate the scope as an issue. If you're still all over the board with iron sights then it's just a matter of finding the right powder and charge combination. Good luck, I'm doing the same thing right now with a '94 Marlin in 44 Mag pushing Lee 429-200RF's.

[popper]

H4895 can be safely downloaded, not sure of the other powders you list. MG 336 likes HARD boolits. H.T. if needed. The 041 is also 20% heavier than the 150s - maybe too much slump on firing with fast powder? I'm assuming you say the Lee shoots good with the same powders? I never had luck with the LLA but hear good things about Bens LLA/Johnson's liquid floor wax. Except for really lite loads, unique/2400 gives me too fast a pressure rise. My barrel is tight at the chamber/muzzle, big in between which isn't good for cast accuracy. Made in 2008. It's great with jacketed. If it shoots good with the others using the scope, I wouldn't worry about it. Interesting that an indoor will let you shoot 30/30 at any fps.

[sghart3578]

"Interesting that an indoor will let you shoot 30/30 at any fps."

I know I live in California and I expect piles of limitations but this indoor range has no restrictions of any kind. If you have the money you can rent and shoot their Barret .50 caliber. I even shoot my muzzleloader there. The ventilation system is outstanding.